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Random Politics Thread

Red Herring

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Apparently the same story with Bin Laden you know, I had a lecturer on third world development at university, he was a refugee too as his government or corporations had repeatedly tried to shoot him for meeting with trade union organizers, and he used to say about how that part of the world had tried repeatedly to trade bin laden to the CIA before 9/11 but the CIA didnt want him. He said there was no conspiracy, they just didnt think he was a threat, they just were more suspicious of the state actors saying "take this guy, he is a trouble maker" than they were of bin laden himself. This is likely to be the same story.

Plus, these days, I just think that there are a lot of people who want a sectarian death spiral of political islam versus far right ethno-nationalism, maybe it simplifies things for them, I definitely could see how politicians would want it, makes their job much easier if all they need to do is make the right sort of noises and they benefit from the echo chambers, dog whistles and the like come what may and regardless of how they actually perform in public office. Its now things have been in NI for the whole of my life and there sure are people who would love to see the return of that particular "business as usual", arguably westminister has tried really hard to engineer, or take advantage, of similar sentiments in england, brexit was a result.

The irony, I find, is that while ostensibly opposing each other, the two adversaries within this kind of pairing share more in common with one another than the average member of gen pop. Some of them know that, play on it, are pretty cynical and could care less, others dont.
Oh, and the Saudis wanted him to be extradicted which Germany refused (probably saving his life). He was an outspoken opponent of Islam and probably would have faced torture or execution in his home country.
 

Red Herring

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Technically speaking Islamists are noting more than far right that believes in Allah instead of God.
True. And yet - to my knowledge - one of the cornerstones of the European far-right is islamophobia. Here in Germany the rejection of muslim migrants is probably the most important pillar of the far-right. The left on the other hand tends to defend that faith. That Islam as a culture tends to not really be compatible with women's rights or LGBTQ+ rights or sexual selfdetermination in general and can often be accompanied by antisemitism often causes the need for some gymnastics to make that split happen.

Part of the left would also defend islamism as an anti-colonialist struggle.
 

Red Herring

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Also, it now came out that the perpetrator - himself a migrant from Saudi Arabia - was so anti-Muslim that he sympathized with the anti-migrant AfD and hated Merkel for allowing Muslims into the country.
 

Virtual ghost

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True. And yet - to my knowledge - one of the cornerstones of the European far-right is islamophobia. Here in Germany the rejection of muslim migrants is probably the most important pillar of the far-right. The left on the other hand tends to defend that faith. That Islam as a culture tends to not really be compatible with women's rights or LGBTQ+ rights or sexual selfdetermination in general and can often be accompanied by antisemitism often causes the need for some gymnastics to make that split happen.

Ok, but what you are missing in my point is that there can be "far right vs far right" struggle depending on which religion they follow. In my book you can be far right in practice without being a Christian. Especially since far right is more defined by methodology than details of content. In the case that not all of the neighboring countries of Germany are of Christian traditions this would probably be more visible to you as an argument.
 

ygolo

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Red Herring

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Ok, but what you are missing in my point is that there can be "far right vs far right" struggle depending on which religion they follow. In my book you can be far right in practice without being a Christian. Especially since far right is more defined by methodology than details of content. In the case that not all of the neighboring countries of Germany are of Christian traditions this would probably be more visible to you as an argument.
I didn't miss that, I am aware of that and took it for established. I just pointed out how silly it can sometimes be.
 

ceecee

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Oh yes, islamists and the far-right share a lot of ideals as well as common enemies.

As far as the Saudi guy is concerned, things are still a bit unclear but he seems to be an atheist. Right now everything points to him having mental issues - he skipped a court apointment the day before the attack where he was facing a fine for repeatedly abusong emergency hotlines. He also has a history of confronting the police and the folks at the atheist refugee help group that he volunteered at say he was extremely confrontational and constantly insulting and attacking people. Looks like he just snapped.
Sure do. Christian extremists in the US have more in common with the the Taliban (as in the way they wish the US was governed) than they do with most Americans.
 

Totenkindly

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Nothing really shocking here, the main thing is this is the guy Trump picked to be AG of the USA.


Side issue on marijuana (the least of the issues here), which is now legal in some states -- despite that, fedgov employees (as comparison) can be terminated/ disciplined for failing a marijuana drug test even if they live in a state where it's legal. We have been told this explicitly in work emails. Plus he had a fake account set up from the House premises to solicit purchase. Again, the least of issues.
 
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Polaris

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Dump has just hit a new ethical low. He is now stating he'll vigorously encourage the institution of the death penalty across the United States.
 

Coriolis

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Nothing really shocking here, the main thing is this is the guy Trump picked to be AG of the USA.


Side issue on marijuana (the least of the issues here), which is now legal in some states -- despite that, fedgov employees (as comparison) can be terminated/ disciplined for failing a marijuana drug test even if they live in a state where it's legal. We have been told this explicitly in work emails. Plus he had a fake account set up from the House premises to solicit purchase. Again, the least of issues.
This sort of thing will continue until Americans take their voting seriously and "vote the bums out". That is how it is supposed to work, but it doesn't work when too many treat democracy as a spectator sport.
 
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