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Random Politics Thread

ceecee

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That's great you are considering offering a refuge for them.

Even when you know it's a threat, it's hard to just sell, pick up, and uproot years of memories and relationships because the folks currently in office are stoking the fires. One might hope a change of office every few years could alleviate some of it -- but why would it? They'll just vote the same/similar folks in again. It'll get worse before it gets better.

And when you move, you're just removing more people who might have voted against the insanity -- but how long do you risk your family and those you love? I know people from various states afflicted by this craziness who are pulling up stakes and heading for safer pastures.
For a long time, I viewed the south as basically a land held hostage and had been since the Civil War. But how much longer do people keep getting in their own way? The southern Democrats (Clyburn, Tim Kane, Manchin...) are just as bad as Republicans, they vote for the same stupid shit and are basically useless. Until that changes, I don't see much in the way of actual changes in the south. I also see VERY little if any from those Dems when it comes to defending human rights and they of all people should be deafening. The loudest fuckers I hear are people like Jamaal Bowman (the man understands poverty), Cori Bush (also understands poverty) but not The Congressional Equality Caucus, which use to be the LGBTQ+ Caucus. They should be out there every goddamn day on every cable news channel, Sirius XM, Twitter whatever with a bullhorn about this. There are plenty of them to do it.
 

Totenkindly

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For a long time, I viewed the south as basically a land held hostage and had been since the Civil War. But how much longer do people keep getting in their own way? The southern Democrats (Clyburn, Tim Kane, Manchin...) are just as bad as Republicans, they vote for the same stupid shit and are basically useless. Until that changes, I don't see much in the way of actual changes in the south. I also see VERY little if any from those Dems when it comes to defending human rights and they of all people should be deafening. The loudest fuckers I hear are people like Jamaal Bowman (the man understands poverty), Cori Bush (also understands poverty) but not The Congressional Equality Caucus, which use to be the LGBTQ+ Caucus. They should be out there every goddamn day on every cable news channel, Sirius XM, Twitter whatever with a bullhorn about this. There are plenty of them to do it.
Do they really have 194 members, by my guesstimate? Because I don't really hear anything from them down on my level. That was the largest shock of going to their page and seeing so many goddam faces there and wondering who the hell they all are, because I sure don't know.

I mean, I can say from the administration POV that I saw no movement while Trump was in office, he was a total asshat (i.e., any vocalization from gov to support LGBTQ+ folks simply stopped), but at least he didn't bother to pretend, I suppose. While Biden has been in office, he's been more vocal on an agency level about LGBTQ+ inclusion and there's been a big push for people to use pronouns on their e-mail sigs, inclusive language has not been mandated but highly encouraged (there's a handbook out, and documentation for many applications in our agency has been reviewed to see how our notices can be updated), and there's also a push towards non-gendered pronouns in applications and notices unless it is so baked into the code that it can't easily be removed. I have been doing work involving it and have more on the roadmap for the next few years.

But that stuff is mostly cosmetic to me, even if helpful maybe to change the tone. I rarely see shit that is meaningful in any way in the public sphere from gov. What good is it to have 35% of the country use the right pronouns if someone is throwing you in jail or murdering you just for existing? You might hope that courtesy will help people just be a little more open to you rather than ignorantly transphobic, but it's not the full solution.

Pretty much as a trans person, I feel like it's just been the same as it has always been: We're on our own, everyone is just trying to survive and build the best life that is possible ourselves individually, and relying on the government to look out for us is only a death sentence. Parents of transkids have their own groups to generate support and push certain lobbies / mobilize efforts. Maybe some people were relying on corporate benevolence, but the older folks have always known that it's just dependent on their bottom line and as soon as it's not profitable to support LGBTQ+ causes, then look out because that "help" will evaporate. We made a lot of noise about a decade back that only grew enough to alert the crazies who are now actively stomping us down again as much as possible.

I've been around enough to remember when gay interests were the main push and trans interests were seen as a distraction at best and a derailment at worst. There was so much infighting in the mid/late 2000's because gay lobby groups felt like trans people were just dragging them down to getting same-sex marriage passed and wanted to throw us under the bus. People were literally fired from their org jobs over that argument, and i remember when same-sex marriage was finally approved by SCOTUS, money evaporated overnight -- they got their marriage, now transpeople (who pushed to help with that effort) were left to sink or swim. People were aware of gay causes first and can better relate to it, I guess, and gay folks have more political power.

I dunno. I'm angry. I can't say I'm surprised. If you have not experienced gender dysphoria or know people who have, it's a difficult thing to understand. And even then, if you don't know gender dysphoric kids, THAT part can be hard to understand as well. So it's mostly about people just not having respect for others even when they don't understand them, not leaving policies up to people who DO have that experience and are trained professionals, and/or otherwise just looking for groups to punish to advance one's own agenda. We make easy targets for misunderstanding, dismissal, and/or vilification.
 

ceecee

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Do they really have 194 members, by my guesstimate? Because I don't really hear anything from them down on my level. That was the largest shock of going to their page and seeing so many goddam faces there and wondering who the hell they all are, because I sure don't know.

I mean, I can say from the administration POV that I saw no movement while Trump was in office, he was a total asshat (i.e., any vocalization from gov to support LGBTQ+ folks simply stopped), but at least he didn't bother to pretend, I suppose. While Biden has been in office, he's been more vocal on an agency level about LGBTQ+ inclusion and there's been a big push for people to use pronouns on their e-mail sigs, inclusive language has not been mandated but highly encouraged (there's a handbook out, and documentation for many applications in our agency has been reviewed to see how our notices can be updated), and there's also a push towards non-gendered pronouns in applications and notices unless it is so baked into the code that it can't easily be removed. I have been doing work involving it and have more on the roadmap for the next few years.

But that stuff is mostly cosmetic to me, even if helpful maybe to change the tone. I rarely see shit that is meaningful in any way in the public sphere from gov. What good is it to have 35% of the country use the right pronouns if someone is throwing you in jail or murdering you just for existing? You might hope that courtesy will help people just be a little more open to you rather than ignorantly transphobic, but it's not the full solution.

Pretty much as a trans person, I feel like it's just been the same as it has always been: We're on our own, everyone is just trying to survive and build the best life that is possible ourselves individually, and relying on the government to look out for us is only a death sentence. Parents of transkids have their own groups to generate support and push certain lobbies / mobilize efforts. Maybe some people were relying on corporate benevolence, but the older folks have always known that it's just dependent on their bottom line and as soon as it's not profitable to support LGBTQ+ causes, then look out because that "help" will evaporate. We made a lot of noise about a decade back that only grew enough to alert the crazies who are now actively stomping us down again as much as possible.

I've been around enough to remember when gay interests were the main push and trans interests were seen as a distraction at best and a derailment at worst. There was so much infighting in the mid/late 2000's because gay lobby groups felt like trans people were just dragging them down to getting same-sex marriage passed and wanted to throw us under the bus. People were literally fired from their org jobs over that argument, and i remember when same-sex marriage was finally approved by SCOTUS, money evaporated overnight -- they got their marriage, now transpeople (who pushed to help with that effort) were left to sink or swim. People were aware of gay causes first and can better relate to it, I guess, and gay folks have more political power.

I dunno. I'm angry. I can't say I'm surprised. If you have not experienced gender dysphoria or know people who have, it's a difficult thing to understand. And even then, if you don't know gender dysphoric kids, THAT part can be hard to understand as well. So it's mostly about people just not having respect for others even when they don't understand them, not leaving policies up to people who DO have that experience and are trained professionals, and/or otherwise just looking for groups to punish to advance one's own agenda. We make easy targets for misunderstanding, dismissal, and/or vilification.
I can't imagine your anger. I can barely contain my own at times. This is what I have tried to say, repeatedly, to anyone that voices mostly ignorant beliefs/feelings on the subject. They're being killed for who they are and I know you have seen this movie before. No, I don't particularly care about ones personal feelings on trans and LGBTQ+ people. In fact I couldn't care less. The issue is that no one has a right to stop them from living their life. That's it. And I very much wish gays would be much more visible and vocal on the subject. The ones with visibility and power. Secretary Mayor Pete comes to mind as well as his husband and several openly gay members of Congress. They could do much more but as long as they bend the knee to the right the moment they start crying about imaginary grievances, this goes nowhere.
 

Totenkindly

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I can't imagine your anger. I can barely contain my own at times. This is what I have tried to say, repeatedly, to anyone that voices mostly ignorant beliefs/feelings on the subject. They're being killed for who they are and I know you have seen this movie before. No, I don't particularly care about ones personal feelings on trans and LGBTQ+ people. In fact I couldn't care less. The issue is that no one has a right to stop them from living their life. That's it.

That was supposed to be the beauty of this country.
And I very much wish gays would be much more visible and vocal on the subject. The ones with visibility and power. Secretary Mayor Pete comes to mind as well as his husband and several openly gay members of Congress. They could do much more but as long as they bend the knee to the right the moment they start crying about imaginary grievances, this goes nowhere.
You know, it's really sick -- the silence is so deafening that I totally forgot we had an openly gay person in the Cabinet (and likely granted that position in part because he IS gay). Go figure.
 

The Cat

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That was supposed to be the beauty of this country.

You know, it's really sick -- the silence is so deafening that I totally forgot we had an openly gay person in the Cabinet (and likely granted that position in part because he IS gay). Go figure.
I always forget that too; sometimes I think he does too.
 

Virtual ghost

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True, but I will openly say that in my opinion this wouldn't happen.
In other words Youtube has thrown me a fresh and random video. Which is the video where DeSantis is actually on stage and campaigning (in Iowa). Therefore since I don't live in the country and never saw more than random short segments of the guy I decided to take a peak (and in the end I actually watched the whole thing out of pure curiosity). Therefore having said that I think that the media are again wrong, since they are expecting or even wanting Trump vs. Biden rematch. I mean 40 year old brain vs. 80 year old brain, that just isn't in the same league. Plus the odds are that DeSantis is smarter than these two ever where. You may cringe at his talking points but the crowd really seem to like it and coherent sentences really make a difference from "the usual" these days. The whole story about rebuilding the country really does sound more believable if it is being told by a guy that isn't half dead. Not to mention that those two grandpas got their shots at the helm and the average person wasn't too impressed with results.
However the gossip is evidently true, DeSantis really is Trump with a brain. Plus since I am from the part of the world where populism and nationalism matter I managed to predict that Trump will win in 2016, since for me this wasn't the first time that I was watching that movie. Therefore I claim that the next President will actually be DeSantis (if elections will be done more or less by the book and he will not have some kind of a grand scandal).


However this isn't an endorsement but a prophecy for which I want to have a record. Which will prove me right or wrong in election day(s).
 

The Cat

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True, but I will openly say that in my opinion this wouldn't happen.
In other words Youtube has thrown me a fresh and random video. Which is the video where DeSantis is actually on stage and campaigning (in Iowa). Therefore since I don't live in the country and never saw more than random short segments of the guy I decided to take a peak (and in the end I actually watched the whole thing out of pure curiosity). Therefore having said that I think that the media are again wrong, since they are expecting or even wanting Trump vs. Biden rematch. I mean 40 year old brain vs. 80 year old brain, that just isn't in the same league. Plus the odds are that DeSantis is smarter than these two ever where. You may cringe at his talking points but the crowd really seem to like it and coherent sentences really make a difference from "the usual" these days. The whole story about rebuilding the country really does sound more believable if it is being told by a guy that isn't half dead. Not to mention that those two grandpas got their shots at the helm and the average person wasn't too impressed with results.
However the gossip is evidently true, DeSantis really is Trump with a brain. Plus since I am from the part of the world where populism and nationalism matter I managed to predict that Trump will win in 2016, since for me this wasn't the first time that I was watching that movie. Therefore I claim that the next President will actually be DeSantis (if elections will be done more or less by the book and he will not have some kind of a grand scandal).


However this isn't an endorsement but a prophecy for which I want to have a record. Which will prove me right or wrong in election day(s).
People volentarily join Home Owner's Associations all the time, and Ron DeSantis is the human incarnation of an HOA. People might not want to have a beer with him, but plenty of people will pretend a lot of things for an HOA...And DeSantis has proved hes adept at using systems to subvert justice all the while maintaining that clean cut doofy has a hard time mastering faces and laughing like a human...more voters will like him than Im comfortable with, if not now...inevitably. But a lot of things can happen between now and then and the press and politicians said trump wouldnt stand a chance and yet here we all are. I always hope for the best, experience however has taught me to expect the the worst. And Grand Moff DeSantis terrifies me, charisma or not. Plenty of low charisma characters succeed in reality if not fantasy.
 

Virtual ghost

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People volentarily join Home Owner's Associations all the time, and Ron DeSantis is the human incarnation of an HOA. People might not want to have a beer with him, but plenty of people will pretend a lot of things for an HOA...

Ok, but HOA just doesn't ring any bells for me. I don't get the stereotype.
 

Virtual ghost

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People volentarily join Home Owner's Associations all the time, and Ron DeSantis is the human incarnation of an HOA. People might not want to have a beer with him, but plenty of people will pretend a lot of things for an HOA...And DeSantis has proved hes adept at using systems to subvert justice all the while maintaining that clean cut doofy has a hard time mastering faces and laughing like a human...more voters will like him than Im comfortable with, if not now...inevitably. But a lot of things can happen between now and then and the press and politicians said trump wouldnt stand a chance and yet here we all are. I always hope for the best, experience however has taught me to expect the the worst. And Grand Moff DeSantis terrifies me, charisma or not. Plenty of low charisma characters succeed in reality if not fantasy.

Maybe if you experience the guy all the time you don't get to see his charisma, but based in what saw I really didn't get the picture that he lacks charisma. I watch the video out of curiosity since there is this buzz about the guy. But in that department he doesn't seem to be "harmless" if allow him to set the narrative.
 

The Cat

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Maybe if you experience the guy all the time you don't get to see his charisma, but based in what saw I really didn't get the picture that he lacks charisma. I watch the video out of curiosity since there is this buzz about the guy. But in that department he doesn't seem to be "harmless" if allow him to set the narrative.
Not even Mostly Harmless. Men like him are among the most dangerous ime.
 

Virtual ghost

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But Republicans aside: what confuses me more is that Democrats openly plan to send Biden into 2024 race. The guy who is obviously too old and too unpopular for all of this. Not to mention that in this case VP will truly matter, while his VP has even worse approval numbers. I just can't believe that the party is so rigid that they don't see the problem here. Imagine that in the end DeSantis wins and gets 8 years in the office. What in current situation probably means that supreme court wouldn't be a blue one before second half of the century. Since it will get that much red that changing the control back will truly take a while. Yes, Biden is an incumbent but I really don't think this is a good idea.
 

The Cat

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But Republicans aside: what confuses me more is that Democrats openly plan to send Biden into 2024 race. The guy who is obviously too old and too unpopular for all of this. Not to mention that in this case VP will truly matter, while his VP has even worse approval numbers. I just can't believe that the party is so rigid that they don't see the problem here. Imagine that in the end DeSantis wins and gets 8 years in the office. What in current situation probably means that supreme court wouldn't be a blue one before second half of the century. Since it will get that much red that changing the control back will truly take a while. Yes, Biden is an incumbent but I really don't think this is a good idea.
When you stop thinking along the lines of confusion and start thinking of colaboration, it starts to make more sense. Corpo Dems and Republicans in the government have more in common with each other rather than their constituents. The game they're playing is more about political theater than logical thought.
 

The Cat

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I think you should be a little concerned Farron... :( just a tad at least.​
 

Virtual ghost

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When you stop thinking along the lines of confusion and start thinking of colaboration, it starts to make more sense. Corpo Dems and Republicans in the government have more in common with each other rather than their constituents. The game they're playing is more about political theater than logical thought.

I know even that part but this perspective only kinda makes none Corpo dems to be lame ducks in the whole game. Since they are basically failing in their top cause to change what they see as dysfunction. I mean the whole American politics is just so sterile when it comes to concrete policies and planning how to achieve goals. In a way it is kinda absurd that no one took some law book from some other developed country and copy pasted the laws into the program they will run on. I mean if you do that then there will automatically be details of how to achieve this in the text and how does it actually work. Laws don't really have a copyright. Thus you really don't have to be genuine, the point is that it works for the benefit of all.
 

The Cat

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I know even that part but this perspective only kinda makes none Corpo dems to be lame ducks in the whole game. Since they are basically failing in their top cause to change what they see as dysfunction. I mean the whole American politics is just so sterile when it comes to concrete policies and planning how to achieve goals. In a way it is kinda absurd that no one took some law book from some other developed country and copy pasted the laws into the program they will run on. I mean if you do that then there will automatically be details of how to achieve this in the text and how does it actually work. Laws don't really have a copyright. Thus you really don't have to be genuine, the point is that it works for the benefit of all.
Its not even a game of chess anymore. It's a game of division; they're so utterly afraid of French Revolution II: The New Batch; that they're all fooling around with rhetoric and skullduggery that they're going to instigate what they're afraid of; and the tragic joke of it all is the US citezens for the most part labor under a false idea of how the US Government wages war. Despite what all the "civil war's a comin" crowd believes. I'm pretty sure the US Government would have no second thoughts about deploying drones on its citizenry if we get too uppity about the BS going. But extreme hypotheticals aside; it feels like we're stuck in an episode of Loony Tunes:

But then this is America, and whether it's ignorance or apathy: we don't know, and we don't care. -_-
A house divded cannot stand. Both sides have dogma that teaches them this; and yet neither side seems willing tap the breaks. I don't know if the rest of the world is familiar with Appalachian Feuding, but it seems to me from my observation and research that that's precisely what our entire country is doing with itself. When Greed and Hubris are running things at the top, it never bodes well for those at the bottom. It's a crab bucket for people.
 

ceecee

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True, but I will openly say that in my opinion this wouldn't happen.
In other words Youtube has thrown me a fresh and random video. Which is the video where DeSantis is actually on stage and campaigning (in Iowa). Therefore since I don't live in the country and never saw more than random short segments of the guy I decided to take a peak (and in the end I actually watched the whole thing out of pure curiosity). Therefore having said that I think that the media are again wrong, since they are expecting or even wanting Trump vs. Biden rematch. I mean 40 year old brain vs. 80 year old brain, that just isn't in the same league. Plus the odds are that DeSantis is smarter than these two ever where. You may cringe at his talking points but the crowd really seem to like it and coherent sentences really make a difference from "the usual" these days. The whole story about rebuilding the country really does sound more believable if it is being told by a guy that isn't half dead. Not to mention that those two grandpas got their shots at the helm and the average person wasn't too impressed with results.
However the gossip is evidently true, DeSantis really is Trump with a brain. Plus since I am from the part of the world where populism and nationalism matter I managed to predict that Trump will win in 2016, since for me this wasn't the first time that I was watching that movie. Therefore I claim that the next President will actually be DeSantis (if elections will be done more or less by the book and he will not have some kind of a grand scandal).


However this isn't an endorsement but a prophecy for which I want to have a record. Which will prove me right or wrong in election day(s).
As long as he keeps hammering on and on with the "woke mind virus" he's going to lose voters. It really is as simple as that. And when the rest of the country sees how servile he actually is - he's definitely losing conservative women.

 
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