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Trump vs. Biden

Totenkindly

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I can't stop wondering if Raffensperger were as spineless as Graham (and possibly one more person, haven't done the electoral math here) and did what they were pressuring him to do, would we actually be looking at the election being effectively overturned? Like, did we actually get incredibly lucky that one of the super rare GOP officials with integrity happened to be in that vulnerable spot?
That's a huge issue. What happens when we are threatened by competent criminals aided by support in key positions, NEXT time? Esp if he's let off the hook again and there is no apparent penalty?
 

Z Buck McFate

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That's a huge issue. What happens when we are threatened by competent criminals aided by support in key positions, NEXT time? Esp if he's let off the hook again and there is no apparent penalty?

Exactly.
 

Jaq

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What is wrong with these men? Can't anyone just say "You're wrong. End of story." to Donnie boy? I have never seen so much hesitation for no good reason.

It's honestly a bit funny.
 

ceecee

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That's a huge issue. What happens when we are threatened by competent criminals aided by support in key positions, NEXT time? Esp if he's let off the hook again and there is no apparent penalty?

Oh, that's coming. It's been my biggest fear - that people will get complacent when they think they can relax. American fascism is here, it's just waiting for a competent fascist to take the reins. Conservatism, what it currently is and what conservatives currently worship is an ideology that should be stood on and never allowed to rise up again. There already is an entire group in the federal government of crypto fash, criminal and crime supporting ghouls, this isn't something that might happen if we aren't careful. It already has. It needs to be excised like the cancer it is.

And nothing will happen to Trump or any of these fuckfaces in GA either.
 

Z Buck McFate

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I wonder how many recordings there are out there of Trump trying to coerce someone to do something illegal or unethical, with the exact same brand of manipulation he used in the Raffensperger call (which doesn't exactly prove malicious deceptive intent - at best it only proves Trump is too demented/incompetent for any important position, and only to people who require leaders to speak/think coherently - but if there are enough recorded conversations in which he's playing stupid about coercing someone then it's likely to find evidence belieing that facade which could be used to show malicious intent).
 
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Oh, that's coming. It's been my biggest fear - that people will get complacent when they think they can relax. American fascism is here, it's just waiting for a competent fascist to take the reins. Conservatism, what it currently is and what conservatives currently worship is an ideology that should be stood on and never allowed to rise up again. There already is an entire group in the federal government of crypto fash, criminal and crime supporting ghouls, this isn't something that might happen if we aren't careful. It already has. It needs to be excised like the cancer it is.

And nothing will happen to Trump or any of these fuckfaces in GA either.

Yup.
 

Jaguar

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What am I missing here?

Loeffler is not expected to sign on to the effort from Cruz, but instead offer her own objection. She is likely to object to the certification of Georgia's votes, according to a person familiar with Loeffler's thinking, who added that she could also object to additional states.


How can you serve the people of a state whose votes you want to suppress?
 

Z Buck McFate

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But the cult members don't see it as suppressing their votes. Nor should they, really, since it's about only suppressing opposing votes.
 

Virtual ghost

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It is election day again.


However regardless of that and in the big picture Democratic party probably has certain miscalculations in it's master plan for the incoming years. In other words in my book the key for success isn't so much in just flipping the swing states but fully stabilizing the blue ones. In other words with clearly better governing in the blue states and states that clearly lean blue you would have much easier time convincing swing states and red leaning states to move blue. Since the pictures of urban ghettos, decaying infrastructure etc. aren't really stimulating. Plus blue states hold more of the money. Therefore if you can reduce the number of red voters in blue states through good governing you will financially cripple the whole red side. Plus you will need to spend less on elections in the blue states and therefore you can spend more in the swing states. I just find it shocking how many of even professional politicians don't seem to get this.



I mean this is the problem with modern of even general US mindset, everyone just wants just to expand and keep expanding. Even if they currently don't hold the best cards to do it. While to no one does it really occur to do real consolidation or quality control.
 

Nicodemus

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It is election day again.


However regardless of that and in the big picture Democratic party probably has certain miscalculations in it's master plan for the incoming years. In other words in my book the key for success isn't so much in just flipping the swing states but fully stabilizing the blue ones. In other words with clearly better governing in the blue states and states that clearly lean blue you would have much easier time convincing swing states and red leaning states to move blue. Since the pictures of urban ghettos, decaying infrastructure etc. aren't really stimulating. Plus blue states hold more of the money. Therefore if you can reduce the number of red voters in blue states through good governing you will financially cripple the whole red side. Plus you will need to spend less on elections in the blue states and therefore you can spend more in the swing states. I just find it shocking how many of even professional politicians don't seem to get this.



I mean this is the problem with modern of even general US mindset, everyone just wants just to expand and keep expanding. Even if they currently don't hold the best cards to do it. While to no one does it really occur to do real consolidation or quality control.
Are you honestly so conceited as to believe that this laughably superficial, rather naive assessment counts as some kind of insight? There is literally nothing new in there. Plus, Democrats usually win in urban areas, where, as pretty much everywhere, bad governing is usually not the intended outcome.

You mistake federal campaign strategies and rhetoric for government policy.
 

Virtual ghost

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Are you honestly so conceited as to believe that this laughably superficial, rather naive assessment counts as some kind of insight? There is literally nothing new in there. Plus, Democrats usually win in urban areas, where, as pretty much everywhere, bad governing is usually not the intended outcome.

You mistake federal campaign strategies and rhetoric for government policy.



True, there is nothing new here which is exactly why it is a good question why this isn't implemented better. It doesn't matter that bad governing isn't the intended outcome, however it evidently happens.
Therefore campaigning and actual policy should be closer to one another. Because otherwise you are just opening hole for the GOP and people are just tired of "rhetoric". If the campaign strategies and policies don't match too well you well probably be seen as fraud, what evidently isn't too good for campaigns down the road. When you take a look at the map the GOP in this cycle increased the number of seats in the house and quite a good chunk of that were pretty urban or blue state seats: LA, NYC, Salt lake city, Oklahoma city, towns on South Carolina coast, half of new Mexico, a decent chunk of Central valley in California ... etc. What almost tilted the house.


ABC news - house map



The fact is that some blue areas are quite dysfunctional and that is opening the gaps for GOP, or at least you have to spend money there because "it will be close". Which you could have saved for the actual swing state.

I am simply saying that parts of blue sates shouldn't look like this. Especially since I think this is avoidable.
Even if you throw politics out of the window they shouldn't look like this (what is evidently bad governing).





Plus you should treat my post more as a rant. Since that is what it really is.
 
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There are a LOT of issues in cities, especially in poor, often black and brown neighborhoods.

In particular, Andrew Cuomo seems like a piece of shit. I haven't been a fan of Lori Lightfoot so far either. We shouldn't be satisfied with any of it just because they aren't Republicans.

I like J.B. Pritzker, though, even though I didn't vote for him in primaries.
 

Z Buck McFate

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Me too. I didn't like Pritzker initially, and the dislike solidified with his campaign strategy (most annoying campaign emails I've ever gotten, was super disappointed when he won the primary). But he's grown on me quite a bit.
 

ceecee

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There are a LOT of issues in cities, especially in poor, often black and brown neighborhoods.

In particular, Andrew Cuomo seems like a piece of shit. I haven't been a fan of Lori Lightfoot so far either. We shouldn't be satisfied with any of it just because they aren't Republicans.

I like J.B. Pritzker, though, even though I didn't vote for him in primaries.

Andrew Cuomo is a piece of shit and has been for years but simply telling Trump to go fuck himself seems to be the sole criteria for wanting to elect him president. :wacko:

Lori Lightfoot was a corporate lawyer and she is governs just like one. I don't know why anyone was expecting otherwise. She also ran as a reformer, not a progressive and won on the monumental awfulness of Rahm Emanuel.

J.B. Pritzker - he hasn't done anything to piss me off, quite the opposite but I know that can change too.

You might like this publication.

Metropolitics
 
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Great idea! You should run for student council at an elementary school.

What is the message here? That these problems aren't fixable, so it's ridiculous to want politicians to address them? The money is there for corporations and investment banks, certainly; the deficit doesn't seem to be an issue then. Past government policies have actually played apart in creating these conditions.. I don't think politicians really want to do anything about correcting these issues because there is no money in any of those places, and thus no benefit to them for taking care of. Before we conclude that it isn't possible, we need people that actually want to do something about it, for starters.
 

Virtual ghost

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There are a LOT of issues in cities, especially in poor, often black and brown neighborhoods.

In particular, Andrew Cuomo seems like a piece of shit. I haven't been a fan of Lori Lightfoot so far either. We shouldn't be satisfied with any of it just because they aren't Republicans.

I like J.B. Pritzker, though, even though I didn't vote for him in primaries.



I know, this is exactly why I was saying what I did. Because if the so called defenders of the civilization will ignore the issues that only opens the door for the radicals of all kind.
From this November

Pennsylvania 17th district (Eastern Pittsburgh)

Blue: 51
Red: 49


Northern New Jersey districts (that are kind suburbs/outskirts of NYC)

53:46
53:47
51:49


Pennsylvania 8th and 7th that are added on the mentioned districts of New Jersey (and they include the birth place of the incoming president).

2 x 52:48


This is all just a way too close and these few district could have flipped the whole house (and the country has these kinds of districts all over the place). I mean flipping a house would truly cripple the new president, especially if Georgia today doesn't go blue. People here are free to throw the rocks at me but to me this is all just too close for comfort. The fact that 2 districts in LA actually went red is alarming. Especially if the new Administration doesn't do too well with in undoing the aftermath of the pandemic. Since that could easily tilt all those close districts. What would then cripple the president for the rest of the term. What would probably cause his downfall in 2024.



Fight against radicalism: absolutely
However that starts with food on the table, affordable housing and the amount of junk and guns on the streets.
 

Nicodemus

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What is the message here?
That his insight in banal and his solution simplistic.

That these problems aren't fixable, so it's ridiculous to want politicians to address them? The money is there for corporations and investment banks, certainly; the deficit doesn't seem to be an issue then. Past government policies have actually played apart in creating these conditions.. I don't think politicians really want to do anything about correcting these issues because there is no money in any of those places, and thus no benefit to them for taking care of. Before we conclude that it isn't possible, we need people that actually want to do something about it, for starters.
It is well known that US politics is stuffed with corruption and foul play, undertaken by vain people and paid for by callous interest groups. But it is obviously not exclusively that. There are people willing to do good within that rotten system who still fail. Good government is not a simple matter of choice (read Obama's book, for instance).
 
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That his insight in banal and his solution simplistic.


It is well known that US politics is stuffed with corruption and foul play, undertaken by vain people and paid for by callous interest groups. But it is obviously not exclusively that. There are people willing to do good within that rotten system who still fail. Good government is not a simple matter of choice (read Obama's book, for instance).

Obama? The guy who didn't go after wall street because it would destabilize society (I believe he says that in the same book)? Good job keeping society stable, lol.

I believe he also says he didn't go for a public option because the pharmaceutical companies were against it, and they give lots to Democrats. "Republicans" are not an adequate explanation for failing to produce good results when you have majorities in the Congress and Senate.

What did Obama even do when Trump was in office besides produce TV? The only thing I can think of was putting his thumb on the scale of the Democratic primary by convincing everyone besides Warren to drop out.

I can think of way better examples than him.

Just curious, do you have ANY solutions besides just electing Democrats and trusting them to fix things? LOL at the fact that you think Biden is going to try to put Trump in jail.
 
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