Trump vs. Biden

[Stigmata]

If it's dead, it's always been dead. Everything still has to get sorted out for posterity and criminal charges for anyone that did commit voter fraud, but the will of the people will stand, whatever the result. Some conservatives might convince themselves of a stolen election via voter fraud because they're not big on the thinkin'n'shit, but others who are more evidence-based look at it a lot differently. The basic general consensus among all of them though is that this was not a free and fair election, voter fraud or no voter fraud. While likely not outright rigged, it was definitely tilted pretty significantly towards Joe Biden- a tilt without which he likely would not have won. Though there's so many things anyone could point to, because of how close it was- a good portion of them being Trump's own fault- so there's plenty of room to see what you want to see and blame what you want to blame.

It was dead well before now. The sole purpose of all of this is to convince MAGA folk that this election was stolen through massive fraud. That way, Trump didn't actually lose. Rather, Biden, the demented far left radical criminal pedophile China-puppet and his ANTIFA George Soros Dominion DemocRATS rigged the election and stole it from Trump. Because people like me lack morals and want to destroy the beloved GOD Emperor, the only man strong enough to save this beautiful country from our terrible socialism.

I agree with Jonny in that this isn't about actually overturning the election, but purely about optics in order to further reinforce the narrative that the election was stolen and to maintain the fervor of his base. If they can find ONE instance here or there of even an irregularity (even if it exists on an individual level or county level separate from direct ties from either political party), they can continually use this anecdotal and isolated instances to validate their narrative of a stolen election. I just wonder if the plan is to keep this all relevant as they slowly transition all this raw emotion into some sort of TV network or something to that effect -- the world series of grifts.

 

[Jonny]

While likely not outright rigged, it was definitely tilted pretty significantly towards Joe Biden- a tilt without which he likely would not have won.

Could you elaborate. What do you mean tilt?

 

[anticlimatic]

I agree with Jonny in that this isn't about actually overturning the election, but purely about optics in order to further reinforce the narrative that the election was stolen and to maintain the fervor of his base. If they can find ONE instance here or there of even an irregularity (even if it exists on an individual level or county level separate from direct ties from either political party), they can continually use this anecdotal and isolated instances to validate their narrative of a stolen election. I just wonder if the plan is to keep this all relevant as they slowly transition all this raw emotion into some sort of TV network or something to that effect -- the world series of grifts.

I think you will see conservatives break away from mainstream outlets and create their own versions of Twitter/FB/MSM etc, which is not good but is absolutely not their fault. They're not the ones slamming the Overton window shut on half of the country. It's the left's fault, ever since it became an authoritarian pro-censorship cult, for vilifying its opposition as amoral white supremicists and leveraging former reportedly non biased news outlets and institutions to fire anyone with dissenting opinions from the collective. The media have basically thrown any trust integrity and respect they might have had into the sacrificial fire to oust trump, and the consequences of that will be forthcoming.

 

[Jonny]

I think you will see conservatives break away from mainstream outlets and create their own versions of Twitter/FB/MSM etc, which is not good but is absolutely not their fault. They're not the ones slamming the Overton window shut on half of the country. It's the left's fault, ever since it became an authoritarian pro-censorship cult, for vilifying its opposition as amoral white supremicists and leveraging former reportedly non biased news outlets and institutions to fire anyone with dissenting opinions from the collective. The media have basically thrown any trust integrity and respect they might have had into the sacrificial fire to oust trump, and the consequences of that will be forthcoming.

I respect the right for you to express your opinion, but I think that opinion is bollocks. We will let the history books judge which present-day actors were detrimental to truth and liberty. Personally, I'm not worried about my own record.

 

[Red Herring]

They're not the ones slamming the Overton window shut on half of the country. It's the left's fault, ever since it became an authoritarian pro-censorship cult, for vilifying its opposition as amoral white supremicists and leveraging former reportedly non biased news outlets and institutions to fire anyone with dissenting opinions from the collective.

Well, I have been meaning to post this for a while and your claim here is as good an opportunity as any:

The University of Gothemburg in Sweden authored a study about adherence to democratic liberalism among different political parties in several countries. By liberal they don't mean left but democratic, free, pluralistic, respecting the state of law, non-violence, etc. This is not about left vs right as there is both conservative and progressive liberalism and left and right wing illberalism. What you are describing here and accusing the Democrats of doing would be classic leftist illiberalism.


Here is what the university's study has found:

Long story short: It's the Republicans under Trump who have turned their back on freedom and democracy while the Dems have changed very little in that regard. However both Democrats and Republicans are less comitted to democratic liberalism than many Western European parties. For example, countries like Spain (PSOE/PP) or Germany (SPD/CDU) both the center-left and the center-right are more liberal and democratic than either the Dems or the GOP in America.

 

[ceecee]

Trump’s lawyers are now claiming that Hugo Chavez rigged the 2020 election.


Chavez died in 2013.

 

[Red Herring]

Trump’s lawyers are now claiming that Hugo Chavez rigged the 2020 election.


Chavez died in 2013.

That just goes to show how sneaky he was.

 

[Maou]

Here is the unedited conference, since I know many of you guys watch fake news.

- - - Updated - - -

That just goes to show how sneaky he was.

No, they did not say that. They mentioned Chavez on a timeline, along with Maduro and their ties with Dominion voting systems.

 

[Nicodemus]

Here is the unedited conference, since I know many of you guys watch fake news.

Just curious: Do you think Trump lost the election?

 

[Jonny]

Well, I have been meaning to post this for a while and your claim here is as good an opportunity as any:

The University of Gothemburg in Sweden authored a study about adherence to democratic liberalism among different political parties in several countries. By liberal they don't mean left but democratic, free, pluralistic, respecting the state of law, non-violence, etc. This is not about left vs right as there is both conservative and progressive liberalism and left and right wing illberalism. What you are describing here and accusing the Democrats of doing would be classic leftist illiberalism.


Here is what the university's study has found:

Long story short: It's the Republicans under Trump who have turned their back on freedom and democracy while the Dems have changed very little in that regard. However both Democrats and Republicans are less comitted to democratic liberalism than many Western European parties. For example, countries like Spain (PSOE/PP) or Germany (SPD/CDU) both the center-left and the center-right are more liberal and democratic than either the Dems or the GOP in America.

I'd thought of this study also. I suspect it won't be received well, and will instead be used as further evidence of the fall of "the media." Many on the right see these sorts of studies as mere leftist propaganda delegitimizing their views and, as @anticlimatic put it, "slamming the Overton window shut" on them.

Furthermore, I suspect that the coupling of these studies with science has, rather than bolstered the former, eroded the latter. People don't like to be reduced to a dot on a chart and made to feel bad about themselves, regardless of truth.

At the end of the day, it would probably be better to plainly list the shared virtues we can all recognize, and moving forward hold each other to account of them. For example, in this recent U.S. election we didn't explicitly negotiate the terms of a "fair" election, so there is no rubric whereby one side can make a justifiable claim for or against its fairness. Usually, when people are acting in good faith and have mutual trust, such measures are not necessary. But, when groups think so little of each other, it is a necessary precondition to cooperation.

 

[Maou]

Just curious: Do you think Trump lost the election?

I think the election was rigged based on some very simple data analysis, the fact observers were removed from the count, impossible turnout rates, somehow exceeding 200-300%. Or the lack of downballots on Biden votes in insanely large numbers. Or how about when republican observers were told to go home while the count continued in secret? There are 1000s of affidavits on this, and many other things. If it was just something small, it would just be a conspiracy. But 1000s with threat of perjury? Then you have the Dominion official whistleblowing. Then you have Pennsylvanian ignoring court orders etc. Something is up, and notice how it all happened after people went to bed. If you were honest, you'd also conclude something was off.

Trump has the legal right to pursue recounts, but when they need to happen in democratic strongholds in charge of the courts who wont rule fairly. Hes likely to be rejected, even with overwhelming evidence. Also, Trump vs the deepest corruption in our country, isn't likely to end in his favor. I wouldn't be surprised of a few people "Died of Covid" suddenly in the next two weeks. Trump just sent the calling card to the plutocrats/deepstate.

Also, do you support transparency in elections, and increasing election integrity? Do you not find it weird that its being opposed despite the Democrats spending 4 years saying Trump colluded with Russians to steal the election, but this one is somehow 100% legit?

Biden, got way less votes than Obama in deep blue states. But somehow, he outperformed Trump in swing states? That hes the most popular president in history? You can't be serious. A lot of Dems hated Biden, he hardly even campaigned. Republicans also dominated the other races too.

 

[Jonny]

I think the election was rigged based on some very simple data analysis, the fact observers were removed from the count, impossible turnout rates, somehow exceeding 200-300%. Or the lack of downballots on Biden votes in insanely large numbers. Or how about when republican observers were told to go home while the count continued in secret? There are 1000s of affidavits on this, and many other things. If it was just something small, it would just be a conspiracy. But 1000s with threat of perjury? Then you have the Dominion official whistleblowing. Then you have Pennsylvanian ignoring court orders etc. Something is up, and notice how it all happened after people went to bed. If you were honest, you'd also conclude something was off.

Trump has the legal right to pursue recounts, but when they need to happen in democratic strongholds in charge of the courts who wont rule fairly. Hes likely to be rejected, even with overwhelming evidence. Also, Trump vs the deepest corruption in our country, isn't likely to end in his favor. I wouldn't be surprised of a few people "Died of Covid" suddenly in the next two weeks. Trump just sent the calling card to the plutocrats/deepstate.

Also, do you support transparency in elections, and increasing election integrity? Do you not find it weird that its being opposed despite the Democrats spending 4 years saying Trump colluded with Russians to steal the election, but this one is somehow 100% legit?

Biden, got way less votes than Obama in deep blue states. But somehow, he outperformed Trump in swing states? That hes the most popular president in history? You can't be serious. A lot of Dems hated Biden, he hardly even campaigned.

All of what you say is either false or misleading. Rather than tackle all of it at once, I'm going to provide one example (regarding the bolded statement above). See below. If you'd like me to provide another example, pick one of your many statements and I'll provide you compelling evidence against it. One at a time please.

 

[Jaguar]

Long story short: It's the Republicans under Trump who have turned their back on freedom and democracy while the Dems have changed very little in that regard. However both Democrats and Republicans are less comitted to democratic liberalism than many Western European parties. For example, countries like Spain (PSOE/PP) or Germany (SPD/CDU) both the center-left and the center-right are more liberal and democratic than either the Dems or the GOP in America.

That image shows many of the reasons I left the GOP. Thanks for posting.

 

[ceecee]

That just goes to show how sneaky he was.

They still haven't offered any concrete evidence - this is why their lawsuits are thrown out or withdrawn. They only have lies and chaos and hope that one or both of those are enough to weave into proof. That's why there is only bombastic fake news claims and these loons claiming some shit like Right Side Broadcasting is the undeniable truth.

 

[Maou]

All of what you say is either false or misleading. Rather than tackle all of it at once, I'm going to provide one example (regarding the bolded statement above). See below. If you'd like me to provide another example, pick one of your many statements and I'll provide you compelling evidence against it. One at a time please.

That one particular statement I hadn't double checked. I will concede on that specific point. There is a lot to go through. Feel free to provide evidence of other points.

 

[Jonny]

That one particular statement I hadn't double checked. I will concede on that specific point. There is a lot to go through. Feel free to provide evidence of other points.

very simple data analysis

the fact observers were removed from the count

impossible turnout rates, somehow exceeding 200-300%

the lack of downballots on Biden votes in insanely large numbers

republican observers were told to go home while the count continued in secret? There are 1000s of affidavits on this, and many other things.

Dominion official whistleblowing.

Pennsylvanian ignoring court orders etc.

Pick one of the above and give me a specific example to discuss. I can't, for example, collectively discredit "1000s of affidavits" without having a specific one to look at, and some idea of what is contained therein. From what I can glean, people were saying they were asked to stand 6 feet away from counters, and that they "felt intimidated," which isn't evidence of fraud. If there is something more substantial then provide it.

As I said, pick one of your claims, specifically, and provide some additional details because I don't know what you're talking about without that additional info.

 

[Maou]

Pick one of the above and give me a specific example to discuss. I can't, for example, collectively discredit "1000s of affidavits" without having a specific one to look at, and some idea of what is contained therein. From what I can glean, people were saying they were asked to stand 6 feet away from counters, and that they "felt intimidated," which isn't evidence of fraud. If there is something more substantial then provide it.

As I said, pick one of your claims, specifically, and provide some additional details because I don't know what you're talking about without that additional info.

How about in Michigan, they told observers to go home due to a watermain break. Then continued to count ballots afterwards. They found no evidence of such a watermain breaking, as well as the next day they boarded up the building and the observers were not let back in. The media portrayed them as "protestors" as well, further escalating the feeling of something wrong happening.

Regardless of whether or not every single account is true or not, it should raise a red flag right? These people can be put into jail for lying.

I did find a website that is independantly compiling all claims if you want to look at it.

Here Is The Evidence

 

[Jonny]

How about in Michigan, they told observers to go home due to a watermain break. Then continued to count ballots afterwards. They found no evidence of such a watermain breaking, as well as the next day they boarded up the building and the observers were not let back in.

I can't find info on this. Can you cite some sources so I can look into it.

 

[ceecee]

I can't find info on this. Can you cite some sources so I can look into it.

Trump's Wild, Baseless Claims of Illegal Voting - FactCheck.org

Seems she can't get the state right either...

As the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported, a water leak at State Farm Arena in Atlanta, which serves as a ballot processing site, caused a several hours delay in vote-counting on election night. No ballots were damaged, and vote processing resumed normally.

Again, chaos and lies to see what sticks. That's usual for this administration, backed up by the GOP.

 

[Maou]

I can't find info on this. Can you cite some sources so I can look into it.

Unless you watched it live, there will be no source that isnt highly biased for Biden. We are literally in a propaganda war with Democrats in control of the information. I am hope you are aware that social media also just got out of court for censorship of the election. So I will be posting a right leaning website, because the scale of this corruption is massive. You need to be aware that the media itself is corrupt, and not journalists. If you can't acknowledge that point, even hypothetically, then I can no longer engage in this conversation because we are in two completely different worlds. (And yeah I might get the states wrong, because I am going on memory from two weeks ago)

MICHIGAN POLL WATCHER: Ballots Were Turned In With No Names On Them

This is just one witness out of many, and its not just the poll watchers.

I also want to make it clear, how big this is and why this might spell the end of our country. I want to reiterate that I 100% think this election was rigged. If Trump manages to prove this fraud is real, what do you think will happen? This means many high end DNC officials and cosponsors will be accused of treason. The DNC plutocracy, has control of the FBI as well, and its why they were able to pull off the Russian collusion conspiracy. This could even mean USA was manipulating the elections in other countries as well. Do you think they will make it easy for Trump to prove it? Absolutely not. They will have the media, their governors and their judges all denying it till the end and even going as far as terrorism to stop Trump.

I do not have my hopes up that Trump will overcome this. I wish the truth will come out finally about how corrupt and evil the Democratic party actually is up the chain of command. I just want justice, and a fair election. There is so much counter propaganda out, even on 4chan. That should say something serious.