[Traditional Enneagram] Reactivity in the Reactive Triad

[Luminous]

I've come to recognize how I, and some other people in my life, either lead with one of the core reactive types or have one as a very strong wing. These types are 4, 6, and 8.

From http://www.enneagramdimensions.net/articles/enneagram_patterns.pdf

4, 6, 8 REACTIVE.These types respond to pressure by directly reacting to it (with indignant hurt at 4, defensive
lashing out at 6, angry aggression at 8). They are in touch with their negative emotions but less so with
their positive emotions, so they tend to take offense easily and have difficulty in constructively channeling
negative (emotions)).

Of course one of the best pieces I could find on what I wanted to express here on the forum is from OrangeAppled, but in the Politics subforum, which is currently closed, so I couldn't just bump a thread... here's a bit: (https://www.typologycentral.com/forums/politics-history-and-current-events-temporarily-closed-/87120-telling-people-calm-upset-angry-exact-opposite-post2748882.html#post2748882)

...when I took a trip with a friend of mine (likely an e3, in the competency triad, whereas I am an e4, in the reactive triad), and I was "mad" at an app that did not work properly and was screwing up some plans. She kept defending the app, which made me more and more ranty about how it was not set up logically. I found her response to be condescending and blaming of me for the situation. She thought it was helpful by having a "no biggie" attitude towards the app. Once I explained to her why her attitude didn't help, she sort of understood why and changed her tune. Validating that the app sucks reinforced that I was still capable of working things out, as I am usually pretty good at coming up with creative workarounds. But excusing it made it seem like I was the problem, which made me feel incompetent to find a different solution.

For some people to move on and get to positive action, they have to be validated, because that makes them feel competent to move on; prior to that, they are stuck in an emotional state screaming "things are broken!". Validation tells them "Yes, things are broken, but YOU are not broken; this is just a bad situation and you are capable of getting past it".

I think people with the competency attitude (in enneagram, that may be 1-3-5) and people with a positive outlook (2-7-9) are well-meaning when they tell reactive types (4-6-8) to calm down, but they don't understand the reason for reacting. They think it is just unhinged emotion, but it comes from a place of feeling something serious is not being taken seriously. So the best way to get them to calm down - take their concerns seriously, which is not the same as amplifying their fears or encouraging destructive behaviors. Rather, it can calm fears & prevent destructiveness.

When I am upset about something, and it's upsetting enough for me to vent about it, if the person I'm communicating with either defends the other party/situation/whatever or outright ignores me, it makes me feel far worse than if they communicate that they understand I feel the way I do. It really does help in reinforcing that I am not broken or a horrible person (because at root in many of the examples I can think of there is some feeling that I did something to cause the situation, I'm bad for feeling the way I do, I'm somehow being unreasonable, etc, etc.), and allows me to feel heard and to be able to move onward in emotion, and action if necessary.

As example of this, a great many times when someone in my life has upset me by being what I consider hurtful in some way, I go to a 5 or 9 I am close to in order to vent. Oftentimes, his reaction will be a weak response, sometimes agreeing, sometimes neutral, but weak enough to where I feel the need to increase the vocalization of the intensity of my emotions in order to really relate how upsetting it is. If he then ignores, I just end up feeling worse and worse and like there's something wrong with me.

Learning about this and seeing it acted out in my life is one of the best things I've learned from the enneagram. Does anyone else relate to this?

 

[Yuurei]

Even as an 8 I am one of the most unreactive people I know. I wasn't always and getting there wasn't easy. It took a lot of effort.

There are of course, still things that I do react to. I hate to admit but I tend to yell and cuss at video games when they do not react they way I except them to. If i mess up in a way that I am aware is my own fault, I laugh it off. If it some sort of mechanical error; for example I hate TAB targeting systems, or when for some reason my character runs in the wrong direction ( happens a lot and I have NO idea why) or a button just not responding as it should the loss of control ( again, 8 here) is viscerally negative feeling and I NEED to release that energy or I will make myself ill.

Then there is my husband; if he hears me swearing at a game ( or reacting negatively to anything) he will tell me " Maybe it's time to put down the game/stop doing thing you are doing?"
I know "it's just a game" I know it doesn't matter and I also know that as soon as I am done cussing it all is well and no negative feelings will remain. BUT when he expresses his displeasure at my own negative emotions, That makes me angry. That puts me in a bad mood.
It's like he is going out of his way to tell me that expressing negativity is not acceptable, that I am a bad person for doing so.

It frustrates me greatly because i think that quickly getting something off of your chest/mind like that is much better than moping and taking it out on other's who do not deserve it for days on end...which is exactly what he and everyone else I know does.

I hope this is relevant. I didn't quite understand.

 

[ceecee]

REACTIVE.These types respond to pressure by directly reacting to it (with indignant hurt at 4, defensive
lashing out at 6, angry aggression at 8). They are in touch with their negative emotions but less so with
their positive emotions, so they tend to take offense easily and have difficulty in constructively channeling
negative

While I fully agree that 8's generally have angry aggression reactions, the negative vs positive emotion is worth examining. For me, focusing on integration and less on disintegration is where I feel best and that includes my reactive state. That makes it much easier for me to question - is an angry reaction really called for here? Is it really warranted or is this person worth wasting this level of energy on?

I never tell anyone to calm don't no matter their type. Maybe that comes from spending years with a 9w8, maybe it's because I know it never works and just because *I* don't need validation very often, doesn't mean it's the same for anyone else.

 

[Luminous]

While I fully agree that 8's generally have angry aggression reactions, the negative vs positive emotion is worth examining. For me, focusing on integration and less on disintegration is where I feel best and that includes my reactive state. That makes it much easier for me to question - is an angry reaction really called for here? Is it really warranted or is this person worth wasting this level of energy on?

I never tell anyone to calm don't no matter their type. Maybe that comes from spending years with a 9w8, maybe it's because I know it never works and just because *I* don't need validation very often, doesn't mean it's the same for anyone else.

That's excellent advice - asking if it's worth getting upset over.

And I guess I should try to clarify that I don't think reactive has to mean angry, although that is very often the case. And many times, for me, I get reactive when someone I care about or myself have been mistreated in some way, or at some injustice in the world. Sometimes there is nothing I can do to change the situation, but the emotions are still there. And getting them out can be helpful, as long as I don't let myself get stuck in a downward spiral.

Here's a quote where the triad is called "Emotional Realness"
from Enneagram IV: The Triads | Myers Briggs [MBTI] Amino

(4, 6, 8)

Obstacles and problems evoke within us an emotional response, and it is the reaction that the Emotional Realness types will focus in on. They express their reactions openly and in doing so, look for emotional mirroring within others gaining knowledge of where others stand on issues.

Here's some good advice: Resolving Conflict with the Enneagram - Inspire Envisioning

The Emotional Realness Triad (Enneagram types 4, 6, and 8) wants to address the underlying emotional dynamics of problems. Their first instinct in a conflict situation is to express their feelings – both positive and negative – and to learn the feelings of others involved. When used well, all the parties quickly learn where the other stands and proceed to a resolution that takes into account everyone’s desires. The challenge is that sometimes people who use this dominant style can get caught in a never-ending loop of expressing emotions, without coming to a solution. Emotional Realness types benefit from having teammates disclose their honest feelings (in a manner appropriate to the situation), while also steering the conversation to finding a resolution.

---

---

I guess I'm really asking if others find the kind of dynamic I described in the opening post happening in their lives, whether they are the one in the reactive triad or not - a dynamic where one person needs that emotional validation and can end up feeling, at some level, that there is something wrong with them (in the eyes of whoever is not giving the validation) when they don't receive it.

 

[Yuurei]

That's excellent advice - asking if it's worth getting upset over.

And I guess I should try to clarify that I don't think reactive has to mean angry, although that is very often the case. And many times, for me, I get reactive when someone I care about or myself have been mistreated in some way, or at some injustice in the world. Sometimes there is nothing I can do to change the situation, but the emotions are still there. And getting them out can be helpful, as long as I don't let myself get stuck in a downward spiral.

Here's a quote where the triad is called "Emotional Realness"
from Enneagram IV: The Triads | Myers Briggs [MBTI] Amino


Here's some good advice: Resolving Conflict with the Enneagram - Inspire Envisioning

---

---

I guess I'm really asking if others find the kind of dynamic I described in the opening post happening in their lives, whether they are the one in the reactive triad or not - a dynamic where one person needs that emotional validation and can end up feeling, at some level, that there is something wrong with them (in the eyes of whoever is not giving the validation) when they don't receive it.

Oh. No. I don’t think there is anything wrong with me. I think the other person is being an inconsiderate and judgemental dick.

 

[Zhaylin]

Wow. I’m going to copy/paste some of this (if that’s okay) and send it to my daughter. After reading this, I’m certain my DIL is a reactive type. My daughter and I are both INFPs. My daughter likely has a reactive type as part of her tritype (she can be downright hateful and reactive), but I don’t think it’s her main. She is constantly rubbing my DIL the wrong way. Even I’ve grated on her nerves and it’s usually because of our sunny, “hippie” attitude.

Knowing this, I’ll definitely modify my comments some.
Thanks for the info!

 

[Virtual ghost]

I am familiar with this topic and because of it I concluded that 8 is my gut because I don't think that I don't have any reactive numbers. While my "1 fix" is actually my So/Sp variant, endless projects that require precision and pushing people to get stuff done before things go wrong. However if situation requires I can throw the book out of the window and do what must be done ... and the odds are that I will even enjoy this. Life without any reactivity is actually pretty boring in my book and without it you can't really take any real challenges. (even if I am generally quite clearly on the competency side of things)

 

[Virtual ghost]

Wow. I’m going to copy/paste some of this (if that’s okay) and send it to my daughter. After reading this, I’m certain my DIL is a reactive type. My daughter and I are both INFPs. My daughter likely has a reactive type as part of her tritype (she can be downright hateful and reactive), but I don’t think it’s her main. She is constantly rubbing my DIL the wrong way. Even I’ve grated on her nerves and it’s usually because of our sunny, “hippie” attitude.

Knowing this, I’ll definitely modify my comments some.
Thanks for the info!

In this case you can have the whole chart.


Tritype Archetype

125, 251, 512 The Mentor Triple details (2 is people details)
126, 261, 612 The Supporter Triple duty, compliant helper
127, 271, 712 The Teacher Triple people focused, correcting or enjoying
135, 351, 513 The Technical Expert Triple precise or exacting
136, 361, 613 The Taskmaster Triple doing, responsible, Industrious
137, 371, 713 The Systems Builder Triple perfectionistic, developing.
145, 451, 514 The Researcher Triple analytical
146, 416, 614 The Philosopher Triple critical of self and others.
147, 417, 714 The Visionary Triple vision, ideas
258, 582, 825 The Strategist Triple rejection oriented
259, 592, 925 The Problem Solver Triple conflict avoiding
268, 682, 826 The Rescuer Triple protector, people focus active, hero
269, 692, 926 The Good Samaritan Triple people focus passive, helpers
278, 782, 827 The Free Spirit ,Triple manipulating, Libertine
279, 792, 927 The Peacemaker Triple Upbeat ok-ness
358, 583, 835 The Solution Master triple strategic
359, 593, 935 The Thinker Triple hiders of true self, Camouflagers
368, 683, 836 The Justice Fighter Triple Confronters, Challenger
369, 639, 936 The Mediator Adapters, triple shape changes to get along
378, 738, 837 The Mover and Shaker Triple assertive
379, 739, 937 The Ambassador Triple positive, happy, Goodwill
458, 548, 845 The Scholar Triple independent thinkers
459, 549, 945 The Contemplative Triple withdrawn
468, 648, 846 The Truth Teller Triple reactive, emotional
469, 649, 946 The Seeker Triple doubting
478, 748, 847 The Messenger Triple creative and original
479, 749, 947 The Gentle Spirit Triple imaginative and magical

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

In this case you can have the whole chart.


Tritype Archetype

125, 251, 512 The Mentor Triple details (2 is people details)
126, 261, 612 The Supporter Triple duty, compliant helper
127, 271, 712 The Teacher Triple people focused, correcting or enjoying
135, 351, 513 The Technical Expert Triple precise or exacting
136, 361, 613 The Taskmaster Triple doing, responsible, Industrious
137, 371, 713 The Systems Builder Triple perfectionistic, developing.
145, 451, 514 The Researcher Triple analytical
146, 416, 614 The Philosopher Triple critical of self and others.
147, 417, 714 The Visionary Triple vision, ideas
258, 582, 825 The Strategist Triple rejection oriented
259, 592, 925 The Problem Solver Triple conflict avoiding
268, 682, 826 The Rescuer Triple protector, people focus active, hero
269, 692, 926 The Good Samaritan Triple people focus passive, helpers
278, 782, 827 The Free Spirit ,Triple manipulating, Libertine
279, 792, 927 The Peacemaker Triple Upbeat ok-ness
358, 583, 835 The Solution Master triple strategic
359, 593, 935 The Thinker Triple hiders of true self, Camouflagers
368, 683, 836 The Justice Fighter Triple Confronters, Challenger
369, 639, 936 The Mediator Adapters, triple shape changes to get along
378, 738, 837 The Mover and Shaker Triple assertive
379, 739, 937 The Ambassador Triple positive, happy, Goodwill
458, 548, 845 The Scholar Triple independent thinkers
459, 549, 945 The Contemplative Triple withdrawn
468, 648, 846 The Truth Teller Triple reactive, emotional
469, 649, 946 The Seeker Triple doubting
478, 748, 847 The Messenger Triple creative and original
479, 749, 947 The Gentle Spirit Triple imaginative and magical

Is there a page where one can find a precise description of that intriguing list ?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Is there a page where one can find a precise description of that intriguing list ?

There was, but it was taken down a while ago. Probably due to copyright or something like that.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

There was, but it was taken down a while ago. Probably due to copyright or something like that.

Oh, damn it. I don't know my tritype where could I find a way to discover it, I suppose there is no test for that ?

I have found a stuff called "Mbti database" but the descriptions here are very shallow.

 

[Zhaylin]

Even more wow, [MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION]
And how lovely I’ve narrowed down my own tritype to 945 or 925. Great rofl.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Oh, damn it. I don't know my tritype where could I find a way to discover it, I suppose there is no test for that ?

I have found a stuff called "Mbti database" but the descriptions here are very shallow.

There were threads about/with tritype tests around. However it is possible to read it out of results of ordinary enneagram test.

 

[Totenkindly]

Is there a page where one can find a precise description of that intriguing list ?

https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/33751-Tritype-archetypes-and-variant-descriptions
https://www.personalitycafe.com/enneagram-personality-theory-forum/73452-27-tritype-archetype-descriptions.html

I think it's the same material and is the most I have seen out there.

 

[Luminous]

Not to be overly pushy, but let's please stay on topic, thanks.

 

[1487610420]

I guess I'm really asking if others find the kind of dynamic I described in the opening post happening in their lives, whether they are the one in the reactive triad or not - a dynamic where one person needs that emotional validation and can end up feeling, at some level, that there is something wrong with them (in the eyes of whoever is not giving the validation) when they don't receive it.

I'm familiar with it. Idk about type relation, IME, it's related to emotional baggage and past trauma being triggered/salt on a wound.

 

[cascadeco]

I've come to recognize how I, and some other people in my life, either lead with one of the core reactive types or have one as a very strong wing. These types are 4, 6, and 8.

From http://www.enneagramdimensions.net/articles/enneagram_patterns.pdf


Of course one of the best pieces I could find on what I wanted to express here on the forum is from OrangeAppled, but in the Politics subforum, which is currently closed, so I couldn't just bump a thread... here's a bit: (Telling people to calm down when they are upset/angry, does the exact opposite)



When I am upset about something, and it's upsetting enough for me to vent about it, if the person I'm communicating with either defends the other party/situation/whatever or outright ignores me, it makes me feel far worse than if they communicate that they understand I feel the way I do. It really does help in reinforcing that I am not broken or a horrible person (because at root in many of the examples I can think of there is some feeling that I did something to cause the situation, I'm bad for feeling the way I do, I'm somehow being unreasonable, etc, etc.), and allows me to feel heard and to be able to move onward in emotion, and action if necessary.

As example of this, a great many times when someone in my life has upset me by being what I consider hurtful in some way, I go to a 5 or 9 I am close to in order to vent. Oftentimes, his reaction will be a weak response, sometimes agreeing, sometimes neutral, but weak enough to where I feel the need to increase the vocalization of the intensity of my emotions in order to really relate how upsetting it is. If he then ignores, I just end up feeling worse and worse and like there's something wrong with me.

Learning about this and seeing it acted out in my life is one of the best things I've learned from the enneagram. Does anyone else relate to this?

I can relate to a fair amount of it; though I think my core issues are more around rationalizing, repressing, latching onto stories or fantasies (ie positive outlook or trying to convince myself as such or blind myself by such or bask in an illusion), trying to reframe things, and so on (hence I settled on 9), I absolutely can relate to getting prickly or totally withdrawing or defending myself if I feel 'attacked' or judged. I'm not sure it applies as much to stuff like mentioned in OrangeAppled's story (as I am not sure I relate to how that plays out / internal feelings of MY feeling broken, etc), but that's probably why I'm not a 4. But I totally relate to having bristling reactive reactions or defenses, and relate to being reactive around feeling judged; I think with tritype I'm probably 964; I do think I probably have a pretty strong tie to 6, though.

 

[ceecee]

There were threads about/with tritype tests around. However it is possible to read it out of results of ordinary enneagram test.

There is a really good one a member created but I don't remember their name. Anyway I did figure mine from a regular enneagram test, which is 358. This is a good resource on tritypes.

Tritype(R) Enneastyle

 

[Luminous]

If you all want to discuss general tritypes and tritype testing, please start a new thread. Thanks.

 

[Coriolis]

Is there interest in a thread on tritypes? I can split off the relevant posts here if there is. Or, if someone is aware of an existing thread on this, I can move them there.