I's & E's intimidate each other?

[substitute]

I would say it's definitely unusual. I would consider paying more attention to the friends with whom you have a deeper connection just a part of human nature. I would go crazy if I thought I had to give equal attention to every person I consider a friend. I just don't have that energy to give.

Yeah I know it's unusual... I see it as myself having for once achieved something good though that most people don't, rather than the unusualness of it being a reason to 'go back' to how I was before.

What I mean is i don't prioritize my TIME according to personal feelings towards the people. I still have people I prefer to spend time with and when there's no other out-ranking demand on my time I'll choose to spend time with them when I can. But they kinda expect the friendship to make them automatically outrank most demands on my time, even if it's not anything particularly important that they want me for. I'm saying where I put my time doesn't correlate exactly to where I put my attachment and affection.

Your commitment to the human race is certainly admirable, though. I just wonder if you're creating an expectation for yourself that is not strictly necessary, thereby making life harder for you?

I don't think the expectation of myself is unrealistic at all, like I say it's second nature and I do it very naturally now. Sure it'd be easier if my friends could all be supportive of my commitment to my convictions rather than admiring it - until it means they are the ones I'm refusing special treatment for... haha... well then I wouldn't have to put up with their bitching, but you can't have everything. Most are supportive though, actually.

I mean if I've achieved something good in myself I tend to see it as others' job to come 'up' to me in that respect, or not, but rather than mine to go 'down' to them, as it were... cos it's either that or I'm having to condescend and patronize, which I really can't do...

It's true, and I do try to make an effort to keep the friendship going, but I am also very out-of-sight, out-of-mind sometimes, too. I'm just not the kind of person that feels like i have to be in constant contact. If I don't hear from you, I don't assume that you're mad, etc. I just assume people are busy, and I am, too, and we'll get together sometime.

Yeah, me too. I've learned to figure out though how likely a person is to take my 'out of sight' as me having forgotten them, not care about them any more, not liking them or whatever. So with those people I make a special effort to keep in touch, it's so damned easy to just every week set aside half an hour to just make a couple of phone calls saying hi, how's it going, or send a bunch of quick e-mails to acknowledge them in my life... it's not like it's taking up all my time. I do spend an awful lot of time getting drunk and hanging out and doing fuck all ...people are pretty easy to appease, y'know, and it slashes my cost of living when I've got a friend who can give me a discount or whatever on just about anything I ever want to do!! lol it's not like I don't get anything in return for my effort. It's not why I do it, but yeah it is a real bonus!

 

[Domino]

That's when you go: Shut up, you stupid deep all-knowing monk person!? [optional profanities]

 

[substitute]

If a person wants me to call back, they should tell me that they want me to call sometime. I do not presume much of anything about what to do with a person, so I do nothing unless given permission + encouragement.

Okay... I guess though I'd just take the fact that they call me as implied permission and encouragement to call them!

All of this was assuming that I'm interested in the person involved. If I'm not, then they certainly can't expect that I will reciprocate their gifts. A person can't say to someone "I love you, now love me in return", it doesn't work that way.

Agreed. I wouldn't be saying 'I love you' though lol I'd just be saying 'I think I dig you a bit, let's see if a friendship grows outta this'.

Thing is I'm reactive too by preference, I'm a P too!! I don't like being the initiator and organizer!!! That's as much a chore for me as for you! That's why it sorta irritates me when someone uses introversion as an excuse to sorta delegate all the coming out of the comfort zone to me! lol

Pink -

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Okay... I guess though I'd just take the fact that they call me as implied permission and encouragement to call them!

I really don't. It's not like I've never tried to take the initiative you know. I've had bad experiences.

Agreed. I wouldn't be saying 'I love you' though lol I'd just be saying 'I think I dig you a bit, let's see if a friendship grows outta this'.

The point remains.

Thing is I'm reactive too by preference, I'm a P too!! I don't like being the initiator and organizer!!! That's as much a chore for me as for you! That's why it sorta irritates me when someone uses introversion as an excuse to sorta delegate all the coming out of the comfort zone to me! lol

I above all else, I use me and my philosophy to justify what I'm doing, regardless of type. I spoke as a representative here because this topic was about Is and Es.

 

[substitute]

Heheh, that begs the question then, to whom is it most uncomfortable to initiate? The I or the EP? lol I think an argument could be made that with the P function being dominant, the EP should be more hesitant to be proactive, whilst with the Judging function dominant, the IP should be able to make decisions easier

 

[Magic Poriferan]

But I'll still give higher priority to an Introverted function, so there's less reason for me to be externally focused.

Either way, I think things are more likely to work when someone else takes the initiative.

 

[substitute]

But I'll still give higher priority to an Introverted function, so there's less reason for me to be externally focused.

Either way, I think things are more likely to work when someone else takes the initiative.

Sure, I sympathize with you, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying not being externally focused doesn't absolve a person from focusing from time to time on others' needs rather than their own 'self-preservation', and making the odd effort. As much as being extraverted can make a person prone to acting without proper reflection and sometimes inadvertently barging in unwelcome to someone's alone time, I think being introverted, internally focused and self-preservation focused can cause a person to be... well... selfish, from time to time.. which isn't really, y'know, good?

I don't mean to pick on you dude, honestly, I think you're pretty cool actually. I'm just talking generally, trying to see some reason behind some people's behaviour that helps me in my struggle to not judge them as... selfish!

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Sure, I sympathize with you, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying not being externally focused doesn't absolve a person from focusing from time to time on others' needs rather than their own 'self-preservation', and making the odd effort. As much as being extraverted can make a person prone to acting without proper reflection and sometimes inadvertently barging in unwelcome to someone's alone time, I think being introverted, internally focused and self-preservation focused can cause a person to be... well... selfish, from time to time.. which isn't really, y'know, good?

I'm more Intimate than Self-Preservational. My only way to advance on people is to open up my own personal world to them. My efforts to pursue others usually results in scaring them, I think.

 

[TickTock]

I've noticed that extroverts can be intimidated by me. Especially as they can observe I'm not shy and I can be talkative on occasions, when they then see that I'm not as giving again it might confuse them in someway.

 

[substitute]

I'm more Intimate than Self-Preservational. My only way to advance on people is to open up my own personal world to them. My efforts to pursue others usually results in scaring them, I think.

Haha, I can't imagine you being scary
it's cool, I get where you're coming from. I'm not saying everyone has to go out and make friends with the entire human race' lol just y'know, like wondering why someone might feel intimidated from approaching someone they actually DO want to be friends with.

I've noticed that extroverts can be intimidated by me. Especially as they can observe I'm not shy and I can be talkative on occasions, when they then see that I'm not as giving again it might confuse them in someway.

Yeah, but ISTP's really are scary. One of my three closest friends is one and he still scares me sometimes

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Haha, I can't imagine you being scary

Scary because I express such intense interest that they actually worry about my sanity and their safety. Well, my weird way of thinking helps make the intense interest seem crazier.

 

[substitute]

Well I guess over the internet especially it's easy to forget the regional differences people have to contend with. I mean I expect it'd be a lot harder for a really free-thinking introvert to be able to screw up the courage to talk to people if they've grown up around narrow minded rednecks than it is for me living in a liberal university city...

 

[runvardh]

Well I guess over the internet especially it's easy to forget the regional differences people have to contend with. I mean I expect it'd be a lot harder for a really free-thinking introvert to be able to screw up the courage to talk to people if they've grown up around narrow minded rednecks than it is for me living in a liberal university city...

My life's story from 0 - 18 years of age.

 

[substitute]

then I guess the same could go in reverse.. I mean if you HAVE grown up around narrow minded rednecks and you're on the internet, I guess equal allowance could be made for presuming the other person to not be a redneck and therefore y'know, feel a bit more at ease?

 

[runvardh]

then I guess the same could go in reverse.. I mean if you HAVE grown up around narrow minded rednecks and you're on the internet, I guess equal allowance could be made for presuming the other person to not be a redneck and therefore y'know, feel a bit more at ease?

Eh, being a Creationist who is into Science doesn't seem to draw an amicable crowd. I still have to filter what I say.

 

[Domino]

I've seen what a countrified redneck lifestyle can do to an INTP. It's bizarre.

 

[substitute]

I think most introverts would be really flattered if you approached them about something specific about them that you noticed. Then we would have a connecting point, and we'd know that we'd caught your eye in some specific way.

Actually this really caught my eye because though it tallies with some of my experience, I also have experience of doing just that and getting non-committal sounding grunts that have made me feel very much like I was intruding on their thoughts and not wanted, only for them to tell me much, much later in our acquaintanceship, after MUCH hard work from me to befriend them, that they did feel very flattered and pleased, but didn't know what to say. I'd rather they'd just said "I don't know what to say.... thanks!" though, than just grunt and turn back round. What was I supposed to think?

 

[Haphazard]

For some reason, I'm not surprised to hear that, Haphazard.
My next piece of advice would be to form bonds with others based on similar interests.
Some of my best friends are arrogant and have zero empathy but we have a lot of things in common and similar senses of humor.

Oh, but I'm not humorous at all.

What I can't stand is that people can insist on talking when there's shit that's got to be done. It's impossible to get anybody to do anything when they're busy socializing. I remember I heard once that NTJs are 'coordinators.' I know from experience that it is impossible for more than one person to be coordinated at a time. Therefore, I prefer to be alone.

I can talk about nothing when there's nothing better to do. The only problem is that there is always something better to do -- on top of that, 80% of the time, there is something I should be doing instead. And apparently, attending to things that need to be done makes me a horrible person.

For some reason the people around me have boundless energy to waste talking to each other. I guess for them, talking is a free action, while for me it's a major feat. I don't know. I can't stand delay forced upon me by people who insist on just talking.

On top of that, what I say doesn't make any sense to me anyway, and it usually doesn't make any sense to other people, either. For some reason, what I type is usually halfway coherent, but it's not so when I talk. And when I actually speak, the words are just gone. My thoughts leave. It's insubstantial. Expression makes it meaningless, when it comes to more important matters. It would probably be better for me if I could even just cough out words like most people instead of them being forced out with violent, wracking heaves -- but then I'd probably end up alienating people from me even more.

But these are just my own pains, not caused by introversion... but certainly facilitated by it.

 

[Jack Flak]

I've seen what a countrified redneck lifestyle can do to an INTP. It's bizarre.

WEEEEEHAWWWW! I've worked in the blue collar realm, off and on.

 

[Tallulah]

I've noticed that extroverts can be intimidated by me. Especially as they can observe I'm not shy and I can be talkative on occasions, when they then see that I'm not as giving again it might confuse them in someway.

This happens to me, too. But really, at heart, I am shy. I just have learned to cover it. I have definitely confused people before, b/c I'm comfortable in front of a group, and I'm comfortable with certain people. So others see me being extraverted and friendly with certain people and they assume I'm dissing them. But then I also, again, don't see the need to connect with everyone in the world, and am somewhat baffled when I've hurt people by not connecting with them. I feel bad about that, but then also realize I don't have the energy to try to connect with everyone.

I've seen what a countrified redneck lifestyle can do to an INTP. It's bizarre.

Have you been spying on me?

Actually this really caught my eye because though it tallies with some of my experience, I also have experience of doing just that and getting non-committal sounding grunts that have made me feel very much like I was intruding on their thoughts and not wanted, only for them to tell me much, much later in our acquaintanceship, after MUCH hard work from me to befriend them, that they did feel very flattered and pleased, but didn't know what to say. I'd rather they'd just said "I don't know what to say.... thanks!" though, than just grunt and turn back round. What was I supposed to think?

I probably go a little overboard in terms of thanking the person and making them realize I'm grateful they gave me a compliment. B/c even introverts don't know how to react when someone doesn't appreciate a compliment. The best thing to do is just to observe what kind of person they are. Chances are, they just have a problem with compliments in general. *sigh* People are hard.