Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts Social Last Support Group

[Neokortex]

[MENTION=29478]Neokortex[/MENTION],
just because an instinct is last doesn't mean it's nonexistent. All it means is it's the least developed. I think of it as being similar to the inferior function in MBTI.

I agree with that. Still, when analyzing it is important to map out, vis-á-vis an ideally "non-existent" social, each segment of the Social's manifestation to be able to infer how it is prioritized. I also have moments when my social becomes more aware, yet the big difference is with what frequency and with what priority? Plus, I'm only making assumptions, not a final verdict. I also take note of the person's reactions to my assumptions and if he's hesitant to concede to his social manifestations I exposed, then s/he may as well have it as an agenda. We're protective of both our blind spots and primary "instincts."

 

[Qlip]

Oh, yeah, this thread.

For my career: I'm planning on attending a local-ish co-working Meetup to do some networking for my job. Feeling on the fence about it, but it's necessary.
For my personal life, I tried to recreate success I've had elsewhere with meeting people and tried to find a local Science Fiction book club group, but there was no luck. I happened upon the post office dude in my little town reading Vonnegut when I went to pick up a package, we had a small conversation about our favorite Vonnegut books. Tomorrow I think I'll see if he's interested in starting a reading group.

 

[brainheart]

[MENTION=29478]Neokortex[/MENTION],

re my husband, he's more ambiverted-seeming than extraverted (I think that's common for sixes, it's consistent with their orientation), but he's definitely a Se-dom as described by Jung. Also, I think it would be more accurate to say he's one of those people who seems to use all of his instincts (again, a six thing?). When I look at the instinct-last descriptions I have a hard time seeing him in any of them. We both seem to be drawn to the fact that neither one of us fully gets the other. Our differences create the drama/mystery I require in order to not get bored/frustrated by him, although frustration still is a deal for me, for sure (but anymore I know this is just my instinct being neurotic and I guess my five side/integration to one helps me detach from those reactions and see them for what they are). Anyway, he'll go do his social things without me for the most part and that also gives me time to do my own thing. It works.

 

[Qlip]

Well, shoot. I went over to the post office this morning to pick up the package, saw the guy I had a conversation with about Vonnegut. I guess it's warmed up some lately, and he had a short sleeve shirt on and had all these tattoos up and down his arms, just a hodgepodge of black blobby disparate things, a crying baby, a jaguar, a dagger with blood dripping from it. I complimented him on his tats, and I wasn't being disingenuous, I liked how crude and weird they were, like he did them himself. He said thanks, and his eyes were completely bloodshot with layers, like there was a layer of bloodshot from not sleeping at all, a layer from drinking 40s and then another layer from a wake and bake session. Then, I asked him if he lives around here. He said yes, he lives up on the same street I live.

There's a problem with that, there's a nickname for where I live around here, it's called Heroin Hill. It used be known for two things, beautiful mountainous redwoods and trailers full of junkies. It's cleared up since, but there's a little bit of the old contingent hanging around. I had a reverie imagining this dude was a junkie, and now not only did he know where I lived, but he handled my mail and lived on my street. To me junkies are like ubermonster versions of that one guy who you helped answer a homework question in math class once and now he won't stop asking you for the answer to the questions on the tests. Except with junkies, they want your money and your stuff.

So, I passed on the reading group idea. I don't know if it was a bout of paranoia, common sense, or if I'm turning into a judgey suburbanite.

 

[Luminous]

Well, shoot. I went over to the post office this morning to pick up the package, saw the guy I had a conversation with about Vonnegut. I guess it's warmed up some lately, and he had a short sleeve shirt on and had all these tattoos up and down his arms, just a hodgepodge of black blobby disparate things, a crying baby, a jaguar, a dagger with blood dripping from it. I complimented him on his tats, and I wasn't being disingenuous, I liked how crude and weird they were, like he did them himself. He said thanks, and his eyes were completely bloodshot with layers, like there was a layer of bloodshot from not sleeping at all, a layer from drinking 40s and then another layer from a wake and bake session. Then, I asked him if he lives around here. He said yes, he lives up on the same street I live.

There's a problem with that, there's a nickname for where I live around here, it's called Heroin Hill. It used be known for two things, beautiful mountainous redwoods and trailers full of junkies. It's cleared up since, but there's a little bit of the old contingent hanging around. I had a reverie imagining this dude was a junkie, and now not only did he know where I lived, but he handled my mail and lived on my street. To me junkies are like ubermonster versions of that one guy who you helped answer a homework question in math class once and now he won't stop asking you for the answer to the questions on the tests. Except with junkies, they want your money and your stuff.

So, I passed on the reading group idea. I don't know if it was a bout of paranoia, common sense, or if I'm turning into a judgey suburbanite.

Eh, trusting your gut isn't a bad idea.

 

[Neokortex]

[MENTION=29478]Neokortex[/MENTION],

re my husband, he's more ambiverted-seeming than extraverted (I think that's common for sixes, it's consistent with their orientation), but he's definitely a Se-dom as described by Jung. Also, I think it would be more accurate to say he's one of those people who seems to use all of his instincts (again, a six thing?). When I look at the instinct-last descriptions I have a hard time seeing him in any of them. We both seem to be drawn to the fact that neither one of us fully gets the other. Our differences create the drama/mystery I require in order to not get bored/frustrated by him, although frustration still is a deal for me, for sure (but anymore I know this is just my instinct being neurotic and I guess my five side/integration to one helps me detach from those reactions and see them for what they are). Anyway, he'll go do his social things without me for the most part and that also gives me time to do my own thing. It works.

Oh, you meant husband. Yeah, like that it could work. Plus, with women it doesn't matter as much what "instinct variant" they have, than with men. They may get bored but hey, if there's no better alternative around? But with men, urgh... it's an existential drama I'd rather not get into...

 

[brainheart]

Oh, you meant husband. Yeah, like that it could work. Plus, with women it doesn't matter as much what "instinct variant" they have, than with men. They may get bored but hey, if there's no better alternative around? But with men, urgh... it's an existential drama I'd rather not get into...

Oh yes, you're right. As a woman, I'm grateful I get whatever man the universe throws my way and I never experience existential drama.




I will allow you one thing. 461 tritype can be a beast. Despite all the shit I've been through/go through, I am ecstatic that I am a 459 because:

1. I can detach from things/situations and mentally analyze in ways that the 4/6 combo tends to resist.
2. I don't let comments like yours freak me out. You are your own person with your own shit that doesn't need to affect me.
3. I am more allowing of people's imperfections.

 

[Coriolis]

Oh yes, you're right. As a woman, I'm grateful I get whatever man the universe throws my way and I never experience existential drama.

That comment didn't make sense to me either. Instinct variants are just as important in women as men, though may manifest somewhat differently.

 

[Neokortex]

Oh yes, you're right. As a woman, I'm grateful I get whatever man the universe throws my way and I never experience existential drama.

Well, I meant as long as he doesn't beat you or worse; or as long as he is socially supported, integrated enough to complement you, to be able to be a breadwinner. And keep that job. It's a drama for you too if he doesn't, still there's more probability to be thrown an ~okay-enough man (a workable, one that can provide safety) than vice versa: us renitent gadfly, liminal figures to find a receptive woman+tolerant society. One thing I agree with is that the existential drama/weight/catharsis around childbirth we are exempt of..., yet rarely do we get the chance to become fathers either.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Well, I meant as long as he doesn't beat you or worse; or as long as he is socially supported, integrated enough to complement you, to be able to be a breadwinner. And keep that job. It's a drama for you too if he doesn't, still there's more probability to be thrown an ~okay-enough man (a workable, one that can provide safety) than vice versa: us renitent gadfly, liminal figures to find a receptive woman+tolerant society. One thing I agree with is that the existential drama/weight/catharsis around childbirth we are exempt of..., yet rarely do we get the chance to become fathers either.

Where the fuck are you from? The 1950s?

 

[brainheart]

Ok, so I'm returning this thread to its origins.

I've been finding myself noticing a lot of social-last (fictional or real) people/stories lately and I think it might be good to put some of it on here, because it's inspiring to me (and thought it might be to others).

First off:

Jeff, Who Lives at Home:

I'm pretty sure Jeff is an INFP sx/sp 9, 954 tritype. He seems to think he's an INFJ, what with his obsession with the movie Signs, idolizing Yoda and Gandhi, and believing in fate and destiny. My guess is this is relatively typical for INFP sexual nines, because the mystical merging with the universe seems pretty Ni-Fe. I thought maybe he was an INFJ, but the fact that he's looking to Signs as a guide and for intuitive clues outside himself seems pretty Ne to me, plus he seems pretty obviously stuck in a Fi-Si loop (before he leaves the house). I like that for once this is a movie with a sx/sp main character and the focus isn't on intimate romantic relationships, but rather the sense of searching for something outside the self in order for completion/ helping others reconcile inner conflict/ jumping into an intense situation without hesitation (and it being a positive!). Also, it's fabulous to see the high side of being an INFP 459 sx/sp portrayed for once in a movie.


Second:

Philip Roth, who died recently. I think he's a great example of a successful sp/sx, as evidenced in this interview:

 

[Coriolis]

Where the fuck are you from? The 1950s?

Either that, or he's just trolling.

Ok, so I'm returning this thread to its origins.

I've been finding myself noticing a lot of social-last (fictional or real) people/stories lately and I think it might be good to put some of it on here, because it's inspiring to me (and thought it might be to others).

Thanks for bringing things back on track. I had been enjoying the discussion so far.

 

[Snow as White]

Well, I meant as long as he doesn't beat you or worse; or as long as he is socially supported, integrated enough to complement you, to be able to be a breadwinner. And keep that job. It's a drama for you too if he doesn't, still there's more probability to be thrown an ~okay-enough man (a workable, one that can provide safety) than vice versa: us renitent gadfly, liminal figures to find a receptive woman+tolerant society. One thing I agree with is that the existential drama/weight/catharsis around childbirth we are exempt of..., yet rarely do we get the chance to become fathers either.

oh, yes. i too forgot about the gratefulness i am supposed to conjure up at the thought of any man taking me as his breadeater. oh, where oh where shall i be if this doesn't come to pass?

thank the maker for thy balm of childbirth and with its built in cathartic component.

 

[Population: 1]

He brought home the bread only to reap burnt toast.

Neokortex is THE BREADWINNER (Rated R) Coming Summer 2018

 

[Coriolis]

 

[Neokortex]

I'll also "show myself out" as [MENTION=33707]Population: 1[/MENTION] announced it about himself, although with the difference that I'll be consistent in deeds vs. words. Not the first time being mocked, not the last either and I also have a lot more "goodies" in my bag, controversial issues that there's not really any good answer for since we are all in this together, in the perpetuation of injustice in life. However self-righteous that may sound. Yeah, topics that prod the Socials' Achilles heels.

What I wanted to add to the theory, perhaps without hope that it will ever be recorded without modification (twisted out of its original meaning): is that Sp being related on a psychical level with consistency. And consistency being related with sustainability. You know it's not just measures and sensitivity towards health-preservation. As the description [MENTION=22480]brainheart[/MENTION] linked says, Sp-doms seem more mature. More self-responsible. There's a reliability, seriousness to it (like that of a mature parent). Might I add with Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx stackings, Sp comes out as grit and tenacity? So to me it appears that there may be a link between a person changing avatars frequently and making promises (e.g. of not talking to someone anymore) only to brake them later 2 or 3 times.

And I did notice more of these apparent discrepancies... which we all have, yet most of us attempts to provide a straightforward, not ambivalent image --- but, since I believe it's safe to bet the majority of us lives in capitalism, why am I to work for free?

If only I could step into the same river twice...

 

[Hiraeth]

Ok, so I'm returning this thread to its origins.

I've been finding myself noticing a lot of social-last (fictional or real) people/stories lately and I think it might be good to put some of it on here, because it's inspiring to me (and thought it might be to others).

First off:

Jeff, Who Lives at Home:

I'm pretty sure Jeff is an INFP sx/sp 9, 954 tritype. He seems to think he's an INFJ, what with his obsession with the movie Signs, idolizing Yoda and Gandhi, and believing in fate and destiny. My guess is this is relatively typical for INFP sexual nines, because the mystical merging with the universe seems pretty Ni-Fe. I thought maybe he was an INFJ, but the fact that he's looking to Signs as a guide and for intuitive clues outside himself seems pretty Ne to me, plus he seems pretty obviously stuck in a Fi-Si loop (before he leaves the house). I like that for once this is a movie with a sx/sp main character and the focus isn't on intimate romantic relationships, but rather the sense of searching for something outside the self in order for completion/ helping others reconcile inner conflict/ jumping into an intense situation without hesitation (and it being a positive!). Also, it's fabulous to see the high side of being an INFP 459 sx/sp portrayed for once in a movie.


Second:

Philip Roth, who died recently. I think he's a great example of a successful sp/sx, as evidenced in this interview:

This made me reconsider the possibility of being an e4 sx-dom rather than an sp-dom, but I still relate to the second man as well. I have hang-ups because I don't relate to the descriptions of the sx 4's almost seething anger and jealousy in addition to having rarely if ever tested as sx first on enneagram tests. Yet despite all that, I heavily relate to Jeff's searching outside of himself for something that would complete him, I suppose an inner calling if you will. I think that's also a reason why I never come out as sx-first on tests, since for me it's not about intimate relationships per se, and that's what the tests almost always seem to aim toward. I've never seen the movie either, but I think I may want to check it out now. Thanks!

 

[Population: 1]

I'll also "show myself out" as [MENTION=33707]Population: 1[/MENTION] announced it about himself, although with the difference that I'll be consistent in deeds vs. words.

I did show myself out. Then you made such a spectacle of yourself I had to show myself back in to take a humorous jab at you. I never said I would never return. No self imposed exile was suggested. No conflict of words vs deeds there.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

So this is what happens when you get a bunch of Sx 4s who don't value social norms together.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

One of the specific downsides of being least so instinct is that when I post a practical question on facebook - because I don't like adding many people, I've never gotten over 90 - the chances of someone knowing the answer are slim. For example, yesterday I posted a question about using fungicide in the garden. When my friends from highschool (with several hundred people on their friend list) post such questions they almost immediately gets lots of helpful suggestions. It's the higher friend count, but also the fact that they put effort into maintaining so many connections. Even if I had the energy to have that high of a friend count (which I don't, there's no way I want 300 people having instant access to me), I wouldn't get many responses because I just don't have the wherewithal to actually interact (however lightly) with all the posts in my feed - and typically people will respond more to those who have reached out (however lightly) to them recently.

I miss out on the wealth of practical knowledge that a much wider interpersonal net would catch, is what I'm saying. On everything from buying cars to where to live/work/vacation or what kind of butter to use when cooking certain foods.

It's even true about starting threads here in the forum. The more energy a person puts into reaching out and connecting with others, the more likely others will respond to the thread.

Philip Roth, who died recently. I think he's a great example of a successful sp/sx, as evidenced in this interview:

I've always related rather strongly to things he's said about his priorities and needs, in the few articles I've read about him. Like this:

Roth’s writing days were spent in long silence—no distractions, no invitations entertained, no calls, no e-mails. After I wrote a Profile of Roth, around the time of the publication of “The Human Stain,” we would meet every so often, and he told me the story of how a friend had asked him to take care of his kitten. “For a day or two, I played with the cat, but, in the end, it demanded too much attention,” he said. “It consumed me, you see. So I had to ask my friend to take it back.”​

The reason I'd looked him up in the first place was because I happened upon this picture of him somewhere, and had an, "OMG, that's me!! That's my childhood and adolescence wrapped up in one picture!!"