Gender Fluidity

[miss fortune]

as long as shit gets done properly who cares what the physical sex of the person getting it done is?

seriously, people get way too hung up on things like sex and gender than they should... ability trumps role in my book any day

I'm biologically female (XX) and enjoy being one... I dress girly and I own many pink things... I even like to cook! I also work on a loading dock and am the most physically adept person at getting all of the large and heavy things into the correct locations in a short amount of time, I do most of our household repairs, think that pointy things are all kinds of fun (machetes, hatchets and knives!), think that romantic stuff is kind of icky, prefer to pursue than to be pursued and am a bit of an adrenaline junky (ok... I'm a serious adrenaline junky, but in a very mundane manner... more for standing on the top rung of a ladder during a thunderstorm than base jumping, but for the same reasons). Those traits tend to be associated a lot more with men. I always throw a touch of masculine into feminine outfits as well, be it motorcycle boots or the fact that I carry an ammo bag for a purse. I see absolutely nothing wrong with any of this.

The man is definitely a man (I know, I've played with those parts!) and has facial hair, wears man clothes and is unrepentantly hairy. He also spends way more on haircuts and hair products than I do, gets manicures, watches girly tv and movies, enjoys wrapping gifts prettily and finding proper cards for things, loves entertaining guests (and does the cooking and cleaning for that) and thinks that cleaning the house and doing laundry is FUN According to gender stereotypes I'm probably the manlier one of us, but he's the man... I adore him just the way he is

tl;dr... who gives a fuck as long as everything gets done well?

 

[Dyslexxie]

On one hand, I definitely think gender should be an inclusive factor, where people can feel empowered by the gender they identify with, and I certainly don't think sex should be determinant of roles. On the other hand, I know humans are inherently predisposed to categorize and label, so it's not surprise gender too has generated stereotypes and even expectations (whether I agree with it or not). I've been raised with a fairly feminist mentality and I definitely find my gender to be incredibly empowering, to the point where I know I can come off as a bit too much/ I know I get a little sad when girls fall back on this perception that men must take care of them, never having any bigger goals than just the security of their role, but at the end of the day that's none of my business and people should be able to do and identify with whatever they wish.

 

[witchingyear]

I'm sorry but ......... gender fluidity is just owning many outfits/having interests and feelings outside of the gender role associated to your sex.
Which everybody does.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Again, this is really why I say there are either 2 genders or none, the latter of which I'm a believer in. If gender is really just the social construct of expected behavioural characteristics, we should really just do away with it. It is a meaningless construct in a society where a person shouldn't be socially limited by their sex and should be treated as human individuals, which is what we're ultimately going for. Unless I missed the latest manifesto on Salon.com.

I largely agree with you. I think you have to find a way to get people there, though. That often means building a bridge out of less satisfactory concepts. Gender fluidity is closer to the right idea than not having it.

Outside of intersex people and/or hermaphrodites, which is really more of a rare medical condition, I'm not sure how many more additional sexes there are, or if it's even meaningful to create a differentiation for <1% of people who might fall under a genetic or physiological abnormality.

It's not common. Distribution of physical sex characteristics is quite bimodal. I still find the idea useful at the rational end of arguments, if not the empirical one.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

I do not identify with my gender, but I am comfortable in my body.

 

[Yuurei]

I do believe that if you have a vagina you’re female and you have a penis you’re male.

Beyond that, I don’t care. If you have a dick and want to wear make-up then fine, just...do it right. If you want to go full-on David Bowie do it.

I think this whole “ anyone with a dick and a penchant for ponies and bows is trans” is actually less progressive and more harmful. It makes no sense to me to tout “ be open minded and let people express themselves!” while forcing people into pigeon holes via old stereotypes. Telling someone they are “ confused” or suffer some kind of disphoria because they find that the make options of self-expression to be lacking could really do some damage to an otherwise healthy person.

 

[Yama]

I do believe that if you have a vagina you’re female and you have a penis you’re male.

Beyond that, I don’t care. If you have a dick and want to wear make-up then fine, just...do it right. If you want to go full-on David Bowie do it.

I think this whole “ anyone with a dick and a penchant for ponies and bows is trans” is actually less progressive and more harmful. It makes no sense to me to tout “ be open minded and let people express themselves!” while forcing people into pigeon holes via old stereotypes. Telling someone they are “ confused” or suffer some kind of disphoria because they find that the make options of self-expression to be lacking could really do some damage to an otherwise healthy person.

I don't think anyone is forcing feminine boys or masculine girls to be trans. This seems to be some kind of fabrication by those who don't understand trans people, ime. Gender stereotypes are indeed stupid and harmful and shouldn't be enforced. That's not what being trans is about at all, though. I'm a trans boy (ftm) and I'm pretty feminine in personality despite identifying as male. Vaginas being 'girls' and dicks being 'boys' isn't gender, that's biological sex. Since gender is made up anyone can identify however they want.

 

[Yuurei]

I don't think anyone is forcing feminine boys or masculine girls to be trans. This seems to be some kind of fabrication by those who don't understand trans people, ime. Gender stereotypes are indeed stupid and harmful and shouldn't be enforced. That's not what being trans is about at all, though. I'm a trans boy (ftm) and I'm pretty feminine in personality despite identifying as male. Vaginas being 'girls' and dicks being 'boys' isn't gender, that's biological sex. Since gender is made up anyone can identify however they want.

This is when it occured to me that you don’t understand my point. It’s sad that so many people-especially those who identify as progressive-just cannot wrap thier head around true nutrality.

 

[Yama]

This is when it occured to me that you don’t understand my point. It’s sad that so many people-especially those who identify as progressive-just cannot wrap thier head around true nutrality.

Then could you try explaining it a different way?

 

[Yama]

If you mean that gender shouldn't matter since it's made up, and thus why even be trans... I get it. I understand the confusion from people who ask, "if gender doesn't matter, then why are trans people trans?" and honestly I can't really give you much of an explanation. I just want to be outwardly seen the way that I inwardly feel. We live in a society that's going to gender you on sight, no matter how 'progressive' any one individual is. I just want my outside to match my inside upon first glance.

It does matter to me that I'm seen as a guy, and not a 'masculine girl.' It doesn't have as much to do with gender stereotypes as much as it does appearance.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

I don't fully understand trans people, or genderfluid people, but I still respect their decisions just like I respect his peoples decisions for their pronoun use. Gender in general makes zero sense, so I will go with what they tell me. Though I would prefer not to use neo pronouns since they are not practical and no one will remember them anyway.

 

[Yama]

Though I would prefer not to use neo pronouns since they are not practical and no one will remember them anyway.

Same. I see no problem with the use of the singular 'they' for those that prefer neutral pronouns. But dear god, there doesn't need to be this ze/zir shit. It makes a laughing stock out of the nonbinary. :/

 

[Coriolis]

This is when it occured to me that you don’t understand my point. It’s sad that so many people-especially those who identify as progressive-just cannot wrap thier head around true nutrality.

How is this neutral?

I do believe that if you have a vagina you’re female and you have a penis you’re male.

If you mean that gender shouldn't matter since it's made up, and thus why even be trans... I get it. I understand the confusion from people who ask, "if gender doesn't matter, then why are trans people trans?" and honestly I can't really give you much of an explanation. I just want to be outwardly seen the way that I inwardly feel. We live in a society that's going to gender you on sight, no matter how 'progressive' any one individual is. I just want my outside to match my inside upon first glance.

Does this mean that if the reflex to assign/assume gender were absent, the motivation to be trans would be gone? I must say, this is something I don't really understand either, but I support people's right to do and be what they want, barring harm to others.

 

[biohazard]

Just how much do you identify with your own gender?

I am far more masculine in my gender than I would like to think I am. I've always searched for more femininity despite not having that trait.

Do you think gender is innate?

I think sex is innate. Not gender. It seems like it's on a scale the more and more it's talked about. I also think it is heavily individualistic so how I view it will obviously differ compared to others who have not always questioned it.

Do you think that it is important to have set gender roles, even loose ones?

I don't care. I don't see how they matter anyway since they only effect the individual.

Has the divide between how certain genders are viewed, including predjudicial aspects really changed or improved?

I'm a glass half full kind of person so I'd like to believe they have improved. It looks like people are changing their minds or atleast willing to understand.

How do you view gender in any regard?

I see it as the individuals classification of themselves, their sex is their biological classification. Thank a lot, to the WHO.

 

[Agent Washington]

I lost all desire to respond as soon as I saw one word, which is gender, and that there is no differentiation between gender and sex, which by all means is the popular conception but is ... just... not on the level i'd engage in, because it shows a lack of knowledge about the topic that you'd like to discuss, and the lack of precision in terminology means that in the op and general population of this forum there is a complete lack of tools to make sense of something as complicated as identity in the first place, WHICH MEANS it's gonna be a waste of time to bother, so

.................................i'm here doing a dance

wiggling my butt

YEAAAHHH

 

[LucieCat]

I do identify with being female, and I suppose I come across as mildly feminine. I've never been a "girly-girl," but im not really masculine or adyngronus (I just butchered that spelling so bad spellcheck doesn't recognize it).

People have told me that gender fluid. Enough people have said it that I can't discount their experiences. And I want to be respectful of others and who they are. So while I don't really quite understand the transgender/non-binary/genderqueer/one of the million terms experience or even what it would possibly be like, I acknowledge, accept, and respect its existence.
I also see aspects related to gender (I.e. gender roles, dresses are for girls, etc.) as social constructs. Thus, there is not a "right way" only the way a bunch of humans made up at some point in history. There are even more recent examples of this (the association of pink with baby girls arose from the Holocaust and WW2. The Nazis made their gay prisoners wear pink triangles in the concentration camps to identify them. Once this was learned about in America... We all know the color association).

 

[prplchknz]

so i've been thinking about this more sometimes i feel like i'm a female other times a male. these days mostly male but sometimes it's mostly female.I wouldn't call myself trans as it's not constant for me.

 

[Yama]

How is this neutral?




Does this mean that if the reflex to assign/assume gender were absent, the motivation to be trans would be gone? I must say, this is something I don't really understand either, but I support people's right to do and be what they want, barring harm to others.

Probably not, because there's still dysphoria to consider. But it's definitely something I've wondered about.

 

[Norrsken]

Just how much do you identify with your own gender?

I'd say I identify with my gender quite a lot. I feel happy when I express myself in a feminine manner, whatever that means.

Do you think gender is innate?

Partly yes, and part of it is societal. They did a study somewhere in Northern Europe, I think, where they show images to newly born infants and they found that baby boys eyes immediately swing to images that are mechanical in nature, while baby girls' eyes go for pictures of people's faces. And this is all way before any gender indoctrination has occurred, so.. make of what you will with that.

Do you think that it is important to have set gender roles, even loose ones?

Depends. Some people are happy with traditional roles and others are better off without them.

Has the divide between how certain genders are viewed, including predjudicial aspects really changed or improved?

It's improved a lot, actually, and people feel free to do things and pursue unique expressions that do not adhere to their sex 100%, though for me personally, while I understand trans people.. I don't really get the endless other genders or the non-binary phenomenon. I don't hate them. I just don't get it.

How do you view gender in any regard?

It intrigues me and I do like to do some light research that surrounds it, the history and the context of it and its relationship with other aspects of our daily lives.

 

[Yuurei]

Just how much do you identify with your own gender? I...don't know? I mean, I don't think that it has any impact on who I am personally. Yeah, I have lady organs-and oh God do I hate that fact.
I don't ever want to be a Mother and I really hate the impact that has on my life. I hate that Drs constantly try to coerce me into having humiliating and violating exams just because I have organs that are apparently bad and scary ( that's why I don't do it ever.) I hate that people constantly try to assign inaccurate attributes to my personality because of said organs.

Do you think gender is innate? No, I think it depends a lot of how you're raised and societal expectations.


Do you think that it is important to have set gender roles, even loose ones? Not at all. Society would function much better if people just did what they are good at.

Has the divide between how certain genders are viewed, including prejudicial aspects really changed or improved? In small ways, yes. In ways that truly matter; no. ( No one thinks it is odd for any woman to like video games sports or w/e previously "Boy-specific hobbies, but women are still expected to be Mothers and get a lot of hate if they don't.)

How do you view gender in any regard? *Shrug* Just do you.