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Toxic Feminism

When you think "feminism", what do you think of?


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Forever_Jung

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Yah...F_J no one is going to give a shit about "girl". Unless you're arguing to have women's rights taken away like a small handful of dudes on this site...I highly doubt you are going to run into anything by way of "feminist sentiment". It's good to see you.

Good to see you too Starry :hi:

I know you're right, but I keep waiting for the axe to fall when I make some faux pas I read about on Buzzfeed's list of "10 conversational slip-ups men make that warrant the death penalty." It has yet to happen!
 

Starry

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Good to see you too Starry :hi:

I know you're right, but I keep waiting for the axe to fall when I make some faux pas I read about on Buzzfeed's list of "10 conversational slip-ups men make that warrant the death penalty." It has yet to happen!


haha. I do know what you are talking about. And for the record...I've done shit like this myself. When I was in college there was this black dude with green eyes that was so hot I literally couldn't talk to him. I mean, I already have issues with making sense sometimes haha! but I couldn't even form the words to make regular conversation around him so I always sorta ran away. Later I found out he thought I was afraid of him because he was black...and I was like...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no.

You will faux pas...trust me. But you will have a chance to unfaux pas hopefully. Shit happens.
 

Mole

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Women weren't allowed to vote in Switzerland until 1971, even 1990 in the case of the canton of Appenzell. Spanish women were not allowed to vote under Franco and didn't get the vote back until 1978.
Spousal rape didn't get illegal in all American states until 1993, Germany waited until 1997.

This shit is hardly ancient history.


But third generation feminism is asking some important questions as well. Until today women are underrepresented in politics, in business and in research and merely tokens or decoration in much of the arts (Bechtel test). There is still some truth to good old Simone's thoughts on the "deuxième sexe". Male is neutral female is flagged - even in 2017.

On the other hand, women gained the vote in South Australia in 1894.
 

Mole

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We have a word emasculate for men, but we have no equivalent word for women. Why is that?
 

Sacrophagus

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Help me out here Saqcrophagus... Why does there have to be a villain?

The villain is you and I when we perpetuate bigotry and endorse ignorance. The vox populi in their fervid protests do not admit any part of their guilt, which generates all these clashes.
There are victims and oppressors in both ends of the fence. The only way to stop this madness is by proficient leaders taking a stand, able to see what the other see, and speak for their people and for the others. Otherwise, we're doomed to see more fatuous riots, gratuitous exhibitions of violence, and Hate speech.

When you realize that many women who spoke against some puerile feminist agenda got disturbingly lynched by its adherents, you fathom that the last wave of Feminism doesn't serve women. Feminism serve itself now. It's seemingly becoming like a cult or a religion.

We don't need Feminism anymore. We need more common sense.
 

Mole

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We don't need Feminism anymore. We need more common sense.

Feminism is an original way of thinking, and an original sensibility. The emancipation of women is equivalent to the emancipation of slaves, and the emancipation of children from sexual abuse.

Feminism will no more go away than liberal democracy or the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Common sense on the other hand is the foundation of the Know Nothing Party of the USA.
 

ceecee

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When you realize that many women who spoke against some puerile feminist agenda got disturbingly lynched by its adherents, you fathom that the last wave of Feminism doesn't serve women. Feminism serve itself now. It's seemingly becoming like a cult or a religion.
.

I think this is much more of a legend that males pass around. Most women don't care what another woman chooses to do with her life. That's not going to stop women from rolling their eyes at the ones who think they're doing something revolutionary and new by shunning feminism/red pilling or whatever retarded thing you'd like to call it. They're doing exactly what women have always done. But I would much rather hear from these women and what they have to say - not the men who insist on speaking on their behalf and are unable to shut the fuck up.
 

Starry

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The villain is you and I when we perpetuate bigotry and endorse ignorance. The vox populi in their fervid protests do not admit any part of their guilt, which generates all these clashes.
There are victims and oppressors in both ends of the fence. The only way to stop this madness is by proficient leaders taking a stand, able to see what the other see, and speak for their people and for the others. Otherwise, we're doomed to see more fatuous riots, gratuitous exhibitions of violence, and Hate speech.

When you realize that many women who spoke against some puerile feminist agenda got disturbingly lynched by its adherents, you fathom that the last wave of Feminism doesn't serve women. Feminism serve itself now. It's seemingly becoming like a cult or a religion.

We don't need Feminism anymore. We need more common sense.


Yah well...I think trying to identify victims and oppressors is the problem that keeps us stuck to be frank.
 

Starry

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my computer keys are sticking for some reason so I don' know how much more I can say...but using "feminisms unpopularity" as some type of shaming stratey is laughable to me
 

jixmixfix

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It's really weird. I go online and everyone is arguing about feminism. Then I go into the real world and get all nervous and find out almost nobody is actually that hung up about this stuff. Very few women I encounter in my day-to-day life are particularly zealous or "strident" feminists.

Today I got all worried that I had slipped up by referring to a young woman as a "girl", thus infantilizing her. I back-pedaled and apologized to all the women in the conversation. They told me to calm the fuck down, and that they hadn't even registered that I had done this. :blush:

With all the media I consume, I think I sometimes live in an exaggerated, funhouse mirror version of life. And then I get disoriented when everything is real and returns to its normal proportions.

come to toronto.
 

ceecee

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It's really weird. I go online and everyone is arguing about feminism. Then I go into the real world and get all nervous and find out almost nobody is actually that hung up about this stuff. Very few women I encounter in my day-to-day life are particularly zealous or "strident" feminists.

Exactly. And no one cares because we're all doing jobs or, running a business or taking care of kids or kids and elderly parents and living up to the standards of being a responsible adult. Only someone with a brain injury would think women aren't held to a standard. They have since the beginning, same as men.
 

Coriolis

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One might think that everyone who agrees with a pre-conceived social architecture is abiding to traditionalism and has become part of the herd, but little do they know, that it is utterly asinine to discredit an idea out of appeal to novelty.

Everything must be dissected, kept or erased, and optimized, not frowned upon to meet personal proclivities of self-defeating progressives.

The role models you're describing are the epitome of Father-Mother archetypes that have proved to be most efficient for the survival of society, and its overall cohesion.

The word Patriarchy, to some, seems like the depiction of an authoritarian masculine fortress where the male dictates every fucking move to his slaves. "Hand me the freaking remote-control".
Well, yes. Whatever rocks your boat. If someone thinks like that, they're right. Every third wave feminist who bleached her hair has now apparently a chance to now become the Breaker Of Chains, Queen of the Andals and the First Men.

The downfall of western civilization is enabled by the mayhem that we now all witness. We're all divided, and soon, as the momentum is building up slowly, the foundation will subside until its absolute disintegration, leaving the west in its most vulnerable state. An easy target to anyone thinking about storming in, smelling the mephitis of this weakness.

How can Americans be united again while their sole purpose is seemingly ripping everything apart?

If that's their definition of Ordo ab chao, then they're indisputably right. Nonetheless, no one gets to choose who's going to prevail in the end. A new outsider party might as well claim their share of the cake, if not all of it. We all agree though, that such a turn of events, as melodramatic in exhibition, burlesque and grotesque, is a necessary evil until the pendulum finds its equilibrium.


Humans are inherently selfish even in their most benign acts, but what we see of violence and bloodshed, is a cheap replica of self-righteous activism.
Within us, resides the Selfish Gene, that gene which entices us to survive, that gene that pumps cortisol into our veins in critical moments to run for our lives, that gene that would make a man or a woman sacrifice themselves for their families, that gene that leads the few inside a unified collective to sacrifice themselves for the sake of many. It's the same gene that runs the program of Survival.exe in the background while we're going normally about our lives. It's a primordial instinct we all share.

Now, how did we as humans concoct a way to live without being concerned everyday that a virus might thwart our daily functioning? We live in organisations, herds, tribes, and inside these tribes, Patriarchy proved to be the most efficient Core processor, among other processors that were always doomed to fail.

In Patriarchy, men assumed their role, and women assumed their role. Men were providers, and women were the caregivers. This model would only be obscene inside of a mind that didn't have a Father figure and a Mother figure fulfilling their roles. Men were powerful, carrying the Selfish gene which will allow their offspring to thrive, and women could choose with whom to mate. Women are subconsciously looking for the best genes that have a higher rate of survival, and that is hardcoded inside their brains. Of course, other than being healthy and thriving, that survival aspect is linked to the behavior of the man in society, and in the relationship.

In Patriarchy, there is no equality. There is partnership.

Just by example, the women in my family are lawyers, engineers, doctors, professors, can fully earn their life, but still, some of them decided to stay home and raise their kids. They have a maternal bond with the family, and know that their place is a place that none can overtake, and they fill it proudly. The role they play in the upbringing of the next generations is something they take seriously, but even more compellingly, they do it out of love. Of course this relationship of partnership makes the bonds even stronger.

If I go back home to find a pantagruelic feast, it doesn't mean I can't cook myself. I'm one hell of a cook.
If they let me take care of them, it doesn't mean they can't take care of themselves. They can easily earn their lives.
What does this show? It shows that there is trust. The trust they put in me, is something a patriarch should honor, just like I appreciate their existence in my life, and see to their every need.

A good patriarch doesn't only provide. He's the emotional and spiritual leader, before being a provider and overseer. The last one to eat, and the last one to sleep.

Beyond politics that can assign roles to people who are unable to fulfill, but should address any injustice when it comes to merit, one should discuss ethos and how to infuse the better principles, the lost wisdom.


Yes, gender roles have been fluctuacting in many cultures and civilizations throughout history. That's a fact. We even have living examples of matriarchal models, like the chinese Mosuo tribe.


So what? There have been great women throughout history who left undying legacies. Let's just take the Islamic history for example, where Patriarchy was the divine Quranic word, in which many awe-inspiring women contributed in the expansion of the Islamic Eastern culture during the Jahiliyya period to the Andalus period, from poets like Hind Bint Utba, scientists and mathematicians like Lubna of Cordoba and Sutayta, to great warriors like Khawla bint al-Azwar and Nusayba bint Kaab. There were female leaders, intellects, rulers, queens, and they fought even in great wars.

Great women were behind great men. Great men who could have been just average if they didn't love them, or have been motivated enough to keep up. Yeah, some men are like that. That's why we associate the word "nurture" to women, because you, have the seductive touch to unleash latent potential inside men. Men can "nurture" themselves, but not as good. "Food tastes better when shared together".

Whoever denies that women played and still play important roles in our lives, are dreadful infants.
Not sure the point of most of the above, and how it relates to my previous posts here. Are you suggesting that people should follow traditional gender roles, even when they are at odds with their individual nature or circumstances? Do you think those roles should evolve as living conditions on earth change? Does the notion that "men were providers, and women were the caregivers" require a power imbalance between those men and women? Given that women seem to have developed agriculture, that whole "men were providers" is only part of the story anyway.

I will comment on two specific things in the above. First, the notion of men as providers being the last to eat and the last to sleep. In many cultures, this falls to women, so much so that they often don't get enough to eat because they must feed others first. And if they are not the last to bed, they are up long before everyone else, to rekindle the hearth and start food, laundry, etc. Even in traditional cultures, both women and men provide, protect, and nurture, though often in diffrent ways. Second is the idea of women supporting great men. I sometimes wonder if we would have even more great women if men were as willing to support them. Those women who do become great in the same ways usually associated with men often seem to have to do it on their own. You are welcome to this sweeping and personally satisfying view of how the sexes work, but examples like these (of which there are many) show a clear divergence from reality.

I am highly skeptical when people talk of human nature. Of course it exists, to a point, but let's not assume to know it just from superficially observing our own current surrounding. Nature and culture are notoriously hard to seperate.
Exactly. If something really is hard-wired, we don't need social pressure or rules to enforce it, it will happen on its own. The very fact that so much external pressure is applied shows that, left to their own devices, people will follow much more individual paths. Biology isn't irrelevant, but its influence is as superficial as it is broad. Extrapolating beyond basic requirements of reproduction can go quickly off the rails.

It's really weird. I go online and everyone is arguing about feminism. Then I go into the real world and get all nervous and find out almost nobody is actually that hung up about this stuff. Very few women I encounter in my day-to-day life are particularly zealous or "strident" feminists.

Today I got all worried that I had slipped up by referring to a young woman as a "girl", thus infantilizing her. I back-pedaled and apologized to all the women in the conversation. They told me to calm the fuck down, and that they hadn't even registered that I had done this. :blush:
That's because in RL, people who care about equal opportunity are out there living it, and trying to make it possible for those around them. All we can do in most online spaces IS "talk". I must admit, though, sometimes I will call out people on things like calling a woman "girl", especially in a professional or more formal setting. I try to be casual and even lighthearted about it, for instance, I might make a joke about it, or find a reason to refer to the speaker as a "boy". More commonly, I run into situations where someone asks someone a question that they would not ask of the opposite gender. Classic one: "What do your kids do when you have to be away for work?" I have never heard this asked of a man, but still occasionally of a woman.

Good to see you too Starry :hi:

I know you're right, but I keep waiting for the axe to fall when I make some faux pas I read about on Buzzfeed's list of "10 conversational slip-ups men make that warrant the death penalty." It has yet to happen!
There are many shades of gray between ignoring such things and arguing for the death penalty. As I mentioned above, small remarks made in passing are best addressed in kind: with a small remark, made in passing. It's only when someone insists on doing such things over and over, or tries to defend themselves with comments that are even worse, that it is a problem. People who don't mean anything by it will take the joke, or correction, in stride, just as if you had reminded them that you go by Elizabeth, and not Liz.

Exactly. And no one cares because we're all doing jobs or, running a business or taking care of kids or kids and elderly parents and living up to the standards of being a responsible adult. Only someone with a brain injury would think women aren't held to a standard. They have since the beginning, same as men.
For as long as women were treated as children, they weren't held to the same standard as men. This is a large part of the problem affecting both sexes.
 

Forever_Jung

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Second is the idea of women supporting great men. I sometimes wonder if we would have even more great women if men were as willing to support them.

It would be interesting to see. I don't know too many examples, but I believe George Henry Lewes, was a wonderful source of support to the great novelist Mary Ann Evans (aka George Eliot). He was a very extraverted dabbler of a writer, who immediately recognized Eliot's major talent and did a lot to encourage her, he helped her edit her novels, and got them published (since, as a man, he was in a better position to do so). I always liked that while he didn't give up his own work, he seemed to recognize she was the real star and took a backseat. I don't know how many dudes from the 19th century would do that.

I must admit, though, sometimes I will call out people on things like calling a woman "girl", especially in a professional or more formal setting. I try to be casual and even lighthearted about it, for instance, I might make a joke about it, or find a reason to refer to the speaker as a "boy". More commonly, I run into situations where someone asks someone a question that they would not ask of the opposite gender. Classic one: "What do your kids do when you have to be away for work?" I have never heard this asked of a man, but still occasionally of a woman.

Yeah, I hear you on the "girl" thing, but things are weird for my peer group. I find we still don't think of ourselves as adults, and are generally infantile people. We don't call each other "men" and "women", and it feels weird to do so. I certainly have never called any male around my age "a man". It sounds absurd to call those creatures "men". I say "guy", and girl is the closest equivalent I have to that. I wish I could say "lady", but that one never seems to go over well.


I even asked a "woman" if I could call her a "lady" and she asked me not to. But she also felt weird about being called "a woman". She said it sounded very intimate and grown-up.

There are many shades of gray between ignoring such things and arguing for the death penalty.

Okay, who called the hyperbole police on me?

To your point though, am I the only one starting to think we actually infantilize (or perhaps juvenilize would be more appropriate) young men more, with the "boys will be boys" attitude? It seems to me a lot of shitty male behaviour comes from not being held accountable for our actions, often not being raised to be responsible for babies/children/etc, and just generally being spoiled/entitled and expecting things to be given to us? Hence the fragile egos of all these insecure manchildren kvetching about feminism?

Am I misunderstanding the type of infantilization you mean? Or perhaps there is just a general infantilization thing going on?
 

Coriolis

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It would be interesting to see. I don't know too many examples, but I believe George Henry Lewes, was a wonderful source of support to the great novelist Mary Ann Evans (aka George Eliot). He was a very extraverted dabbler of a writer, who immediately recognized Eliot's major talent and did a lot to encourage her, he helped her edit her novels, and got them published (since, as a man, he was in a better position to do so). I always liked that while he didn't give up his own work, he seemed to recognize she was the real star and took a backseat. I don't know how many dudes from the 19th century would do that.
I do know of several women who made contributions to science due to the support of a brother or husband. Caroline Hershel and Marie Curie come first to mind. Until relatively recently, though, that was almost the only way a woman could have a scientific career, as they were long excluded from universities, and when admitted finally as students, were not taken seriously as research staff or faculty candidates. Working with your husband or brother was OK, though, and if he was an honorable man, he would give you credit, too. But these men were not so much "behind" their notable women, as beside them, nothing wrong with that, but an important distinction.

Yeah, I hear you on the "girl" thing, but things are weird for my peer group. I find we still don't think of ourselves as adults, and are generally infantile people. We don't call each other "men" and "women", and it feels weird to do so. I certainly have never called any male around my age "a man". It sounds absurd to call those creatures "men". I say "guy", and girl is the closest equivalent I have to that. I wish I could say "lady", but that one never seems to go over well.

I even asked a "woman" if I could call her a "lady" and she asked me not to. But she also felt weird about being called "a woman". She said it sounded very intimate and grown-up.
I understand that, and that is why I specified a more formal or professional context. If people really aren't thinking of themselves in adult terms, the use of "girl" has a good reason. That being said, it might help to start thinking of yourselves as adults more, regardless of what you call yourselves. I'm not a fan of lady myself, though I can't be bothered to object to it. People use it as the female equivalent of gentleman, but that properly is gentlewoman, a word that has long been out of use, sadly.

To your point though, am I the only one starting to think we actually infantilize (or perhaps juvenilize would be more appropriate) young men more, with the "boys will be boys" attitude? It seems to me a lot of shitty male behaviour comes from not being held accountable for our actions, often not being raised to be responsible for babies/children/etc, and just generally being spoiled/entitled and expecting things to be given to us? Hence the fragile egos of all these insecure manchildren kvetching about feminism?

Am I misunderstanding the type of infantilization you mean? Or perhaps there is just a general infantilization thing going on?
There is a general double standard going on, or more like a host of them. We call adult women "girls" much more often than adult men "boys". Sure, there are the "boys in uniform", or a husband having his night out with the boys. That is comparable to "girls' night out", etc. But no one asks at work, "have you met that new boy in finance", the way they would ask about that new girl. We even say, lopsidedly: "it's mostly men where I work now - only one other girl". Since when did man and girl become equivalent? Whenever we speak of woman and boy, it's usually a mother/child situation.

As for "boys will be boys", that attitude is used to excuse in boys the kind of rough-and-tumble behavior traditionally discouraged in girls, who were expected instead to be (you guessed it) "lady-like". Yes, let boys AND girls roughhouse, get dirty, be loud, run around; and teach girls AND boys that there is a time and a place, and they need to take responsibility for themselves and sometimes others. Funny you mention this, as "taking responsibility" is often listed as a traditionally masculine virtue (see - even the word "virtue" is based on the idea of a man), even though it is something all humans can and should display.
 

Sacrophagus

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.

I think this is much more of a legend that males pass around.

Promulgating myths would be despicable.

Most women don't care what another woman chooses to do with her life.

Most women can go at each others' throat, becoming catty, mean spirited, and nosy. Many women are known for gossiping, discussing people, and hating each other. In other conservative cultures they display a much harsher type of judgment and female against female criticism. Men can do that too. No one is perfect.

That's not going to stop women from rolling their eyes at the ones who think they're doing something revolutionary and new by shunning feminism/red pilling or whatever retarded thing you'd like to call it. They're doing exactly what women have always done.

You kind of discredited your previous statement.

But I would much rather hear from these women and what they have to say - not the men who insist on speaking on their behalf and are unable to shut the fuck up.

Absolutely. I'd prefer the same.



(In response to [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] too)

I have never met any self-proclaimed radical feminists before. And surely, as many media sources advocate the opposite, I wouldn't think that all feminists are insufferable bitchy cringy velociraptors who utter foul insults at the sight of a man. People love drama and scandals, which is why tainted news is popular, and it stigmatizes other rational and genuine feminists, because now, most people will associate feminism with belligerent behavior. You can't help it.

We went to a woman's rights association, and we were welcomed warmly. The ladies were very hospitable and convivial, and answered all of our questions. My sister was once an activist in a Human rights movement in Lebanon, and she had to know, what heppened to Feminism in the west.

It was pleasant banter, really, but they talked about many humane aspects of the version of feminism they support. It's a version we would all support under the Humans Rights flag. They have documented cases of women being raped, of heinous divorce cases, of monstruous abuse, like genital mutilation, stoning that takes place in the radical Islamic countries, and they addressed real issues of social injustice and atrocities against women of all ethnicities and all religions, all around the world.

These are true warriors.

When asked about what's happening, they expressed how disturbed they were, that Feminism took an ugly detour.

The poignant truth is, Feminism has been hijacked by a bunch of whiny and spoiled gynocentrists who vomit trivia everywhere shouting that men are rapists in waiting and other ridiculous stupidity that many take seriously, and have consequently ruined it for women who are calling for real issues. Many feminists relinquished the title because they no longer relate to it.

It's not difficult to understand. Feminism is no longer the same semantically, it's no longer what it is supposed to be, but there still exists real issues on both ends.

Women have their issues, and men have their issues.

If a woman is harmed by any means, justice should be delivered. If a man is harmed by any means, justice should be delivered.

I vote for Human Rights.

As for the fuss around social engineering and gender roles, personal experience is not the norm, and at the end, to each his own.

If Patriarchy prevails, it's no one's business. The partners do whatever they want to do. It's their goddamn life. If feminists can't understand the freedom of women, then they're biting their own toes.



....while women do not need to prove themselves.

They do.

Even for a lascivious or biased boss, it would be moronic to hire an incompetent woman and pay her the same as a hard working man. It's his loss.

Women work as hard, unless you offer them special treatment, which is your fault. And if she asks for as special treatment and you offer it to her, it's still your fault for being too agreeable, and consequently, you don't have to complain about it.
 

jixmixfix

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They do.

Even for a lascivious or biased boss, it would be moronic to hire an incompetent woman and pay her the same as a hard working man. It's his loss.

Women work as hard, unless you offer them special treatment, which is your fault. And if she asks for as special treatment and you offer it to her, it's still your fault for being too agreeable, and consequently, you don't have to complain about it.

Women receive special treatment all the way up to the legal system in our society. What makes you think they don't recieve special treatment in the workplace? when many companies have to live up to a quota to hire women which takes jobs away from able bodied men.
 

Starry

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(In response to [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] too)

I have never met any self-proclaimed radical feminists before. And surely, as many media sources advocate the opposite, I wouldn't think that all feminists are insufferable bitchy cringy velociraptors who utter foul insults at the sight of a man. People love drama and scandals, which is why tainted news is popular, and it stigmatizes other rational and genuine feminists, because now, most people will associate feminism with belligerent behavior. You can't help it.

We went to a woman's rights association, and we were welcomed warmly. The ladies were very hospitable and convivial, and answered all of our questions. My sister was once an activist in a Human rights movement in Lebanon, and she had to know, what heppened to Feminism in the west.

It was pleasant banter, really, but they talked about many humane aspects of the version of feminism they support. It's a version we would all support under the Humans Rights flag. They have documented cases of women being raped, of heinous divorce cases, of monstruous abuse, like genital mutilation, stoning that takes place in the radical Islamic countries, and they addressed real issues of social injustice and atrocities against women of all ethnicities and all religions, all around the world.

These are true warriors.

When asked about what's happening, they expressed how disturbed they were, that Feminism took an ugly detour.

The poignant truth is, Feminism has been hijacked by a bunch of whiny and spoiled gynocentrists who vomit trivia everywhere shouting that men are rapists in waiting and other ridiculous stupidity that many take seriously, and have consequently ruined it for women who are calling for real issues. Many feminists relinquished the title because they no longer relate to it.

It's not difficult to understand. Feminism is no longer the same semantically, it's no longer what it is supposed to be, but there still exists real issues on both ends.

Women have their issues, and men have their issues.

If a woman is harmed by any means, justice should be delivered. If a man is harmed by any means, justice should be delivered.

I vote for Human Rights.

As for the fuss around social engineering and gender roles, personal experience is not the norm, and at the end, to each his own.

If Patriarchy prevails, it's no one's business. The partners do whatever they want to do. It's their goddamn life. If feminists can't understand the freedom of women, then they're biting their own toes.



Sarcophagus - I appreciate your comments. There's a point you seem to be missing though that I'll address briefly and idk...I'm not attached to your opinion of feminism being any different from what it is. I do, however, feel a slight attachment to just plain 'ol fashioned critical thinking though...but whatever...I've been a member here for many years now and understand the limitations of what I'm dealing with here...but...


At no point in history...NONE, NEVER....has Feminism ever been anything other than pretty much down-right hated. Do you get what I'm saying here? Pick any date in the last 100 years...I encourage you to do this...and then go to the news archives for that date and read what they had to say about Feminism. I actually love how you wrote "the poignant truth" above haha. No, let me give the real poignant truth...every single day since its establishment people like you have been telling feminists that *yesterday's worthy feminism* has been hijacked by a bunch of today's bitches. <-Why is that do you think? How is that possible?

Why do you think it is we have such a shitty present day rep? It's truly a shame isn't it?


We will never be appreciated in the present ...we get that. We aren't aiming to be the homecoming princess this year. We don't know what it's like to be the popular chick and....we...are...okay with that... omfg. Many people say 3rd wave was to force this very hand right here. We have our sights set on an endpoint and will be the enemy until history makes us worthy
 

Sacrophagus

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Women receive special treatment all the way up to the legal system in our society. What makes you think they don't recieve special treatment in the workplace? when many companies have to live up to a quota to hire women which takes jobs away from able bodied men.

A robust measure to increase the share of women in senior management is a good thing, if they can get the job done.

Diversity for diversity's sake is a preposterous concept. Your gender, ethnicity, patronym, religion, political views are not qualifications.

Quotas will prove nefarious in the long run. I don't subscribe to that psychosis. I don't mind having an all-women workforce if they have what it takes. Meritocracy is the law.

A top dog businesswoman said it as it is, "Women are not inferior to need an extra hand to put them places. We can get there by ourselves."
Proud women who believe in empowerment don't like to be put as an icing on top of the cake like you see. They'd rather other women work out what it takes to get to those alpha executive positions, and be damn good at what they do.


Sarcophagus - I appreciate your comments. There's a point you seem to be missing though that I'll address briefly and idk...I'm not attached to your opinion of feminism being any different from what it is. I do, however, feel a slight attachment to just plain 'ol fashioned critical thinking though...but whatever...I've been a member here for many years now and understand the limitations of what I'm dealing with here...but...


At no point in history...NONE, NEVER....has Feminism ever been anything other than pretty much down-right hated. Do you get what I'm saying here? Pick any date in the last 100 years...I encourage you to do this...and then go to the news archives for that date and read what they had to say about Feminism. I actually love how you wrote "the poignant truth" above haha. No, let me give the real poignant truth...every single day since its establishment people like you have been telling feminists that *yesterday's worthy feminism* has been hijacked by a bunch of today's bitches. <-Why is that do you think? How is that possible?

Why do you think it is we have such a shitty present day rep? It's truly a shame isn't it?


We will never be appreciated in the present ...we get that. We aren't aiming to be the homecoming princess this year. We don't know what it's like to be the popular chick and....we...are...okay with that... omfg. Many people say 3rd wave was to force this very hand right here. We have our sights set on an endpoint and will be the enemy until history makes us worthy




Maybe we'll have this conversation in the shades of a time where things are different.

I don't question the sincerity of your motives and intentions.
 
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