Be Rude, It May Save Your Life

[Mole]

Also emotional restraint is the sign of emotional intelligence. And usually rudeness is a sign of no restraint.

 

[Thalassa]

I know what you're getting at. That's why girls so easily got grabbed by Ted Bundy. I also learned when I moved to a major city that to smile at random men was incredibly stupid sometimes, because people in small Southern towns expect that sort of thing, but elsewhere it could be incorrectly viewed as flirtation or an opening to sexual advances.

I think this is why women aren't "allowed" to talk to strange men in less equal cultures. There's no expectations for women to be "polite" to male strangers in that culture, lest it lead to rape or violence.

Some feminists would argue that this puts the blame for the bad behavior of men on women, and I definitely see their point, but on the other hand "rudeness" or coldness is actually entirely appropriate in certain situations where yes it can save your life.

I like to call it having boundaries. I really don't care if it makes me look bitchy in the eyes of some insecure man who needs the obsequious approval of every human with a vagina who crosses his path.

There's a difference between being mean or cruel, and simply having boundaries. If it's "rude" that's largely a subjective cultural perception. Even in our culture 150 years ago a man who got too invasive with a strange woman could expect to be whacked with her umbrella or slapped. If modern men can't handle a woman simply not talking to them or asking them to go away, it would appear that the masculine gender has degraded into emotional adolescence.

 

[Thalassa]

Being rude can also do the opposite of saving your life. Though generally I agree with this message.

I do agree there are situations where yelling at someone or calling them names can be an unsafe behavior. It's important to mostly just be firm or curt, or simply walk away, than escalate a situation with someone who may be violent.

 

[Thalassa]

I dont understand this thread. I will file it under 'not porn'.

I think porn is part of the problem. I mean the expectations men have of women having to be so nice, welcoming, accepting. ..those are whorehouse rules, or similar environments. I'm pretty sure men actually didn't have this sense of entitlement so strongly before the sexual revolution, I call it the unintended consequences of feminism (Ive read terrible things about "free love" in the 60s actually leading to women being sexually exploited or abused) ...I'm very much a feminist, but as I have gotten older I've come to believe that widespread on-demand porn is actually terrible for men's expectations of real life women.

Obviously there are rapists and creepy jerks in cultures where pornography is supressed, but I read a great deal of 19th and early 20th century literature, and while women's roles were more limited or restricted at that time, a single woman's right to her personal space and choice to say no actually seems like it was better. I've also seen some Muslim women who wear hijab talk about feeling empowered that they are not objectifying themselves for the entertainment or pleasure of men who are not their chosen partner, and that when a man is talking to her, he's talking to her and not her boobs.

There's a trade off in both sides and I think men and women would both be better off in a culture that was more moderate, in the middle of the two extremes.

Maybe you understand all this and your post was a joke about it, but I thought I'd elaborate anyway.

 

[ayoitsStepho]

Relateable. And if I don't assert myself, later I'll feel like even more of a POS for not doing it.

EXACTLY! DAMN YOU PEOPLE!!

 

[OrangeAppled]

It's hard because of how women are socialized. We are shamed for not being warm and accommodating, but if we happen to be so with the wrong person, then we may get shamed for that too (i.e. it's your fault for not discouraging them). I think I personally am sensitive to jumping to negative conclusions about people others might judge for being "weird", as I like to give the benefit of the doubt and not stereotype, but it probably makes me naive at times. Generally I don't have an approachable demeanor, so that helps :X

Anyhow, somehow it is tricky to know what will diffuse a situation. We can develop certain responses which perhaps work in particular situations, but make other ones worse. IMO, the best bet is to physically get away and ignore as much as possible. It's kind of how in an argument, the mature person often lets the other person have the last word, and in doing so, they really keep the upper hand.

I was once at a concert alone, and this drunk man kept grabbing my arm and pulling me out to dance with him. I'd resist, then once he pulled me out, I'd wiggle away. He started getting mad and taunting me for not dancing with him (I must be an uptight bitch, right?), and I had the not-so-uncommon, automatic response to smile. It was the "I feel uncomfortable, someone save me" smile, but to the drunk guy it was "she is not seriously resisting and is just playing hard to get". So he lunged at me again and I elbowed him off and shoved a table towards him. Then some other guys nearby kind of stood up for me as I ran into the woman's restroom crying (where inside I met this man-hating lesian ENFP who took me under her wing and chatted about her anthropology studies between sets). Lesson learned for me - run away the first time someone grabs you and resist smiling out of discomfort.

 

[Coriolis]

I like to call it having boundaries. I really don't care if it makes me look bitchy in the eyes of some insecure man who needs the obsequious approval of every human with a vagina who crosses his path.

That's exactly what it is: setting boundaries, and enforcing them. This is discussed in the video below, from the Gracie ju-jitsu women's self defense training, which I have also linked on other threads referencing sexual assault.

[video=youtube;8b8JRZ2BBDg]Gracie Women Empowered[/video]

 

[Galena]

He started getting mad and taunting me for not dancing with him (I must be an uptight bitch, right?), and I had the not-so-uncommon, automatic response to smile.

This...I hate this reflex. I hate it so much. I hate how I don't catch myself doing it until I'm already doing it. I get so mad at myself for it.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

It's valuable info.

A friend pointed this out to me many years ago; she was reading a psychology book, and they referenced this concept. That women (at least here in the states; I don't know culturally how it is all over the world) are raised to be polite, not give offense, all of that, to the detriment of actually heeding our own intuition and warning signals/alarms. An example in the book was a woman in an elevator, then the elevator stops and another person gets on - someone the woman instantly is uncomfortable about. What the woman should do is get off on that floor immediately, before the door closes and she's isolated with this stranger. What many women might be tempted to do is remain on the elevator as they don't want this person (who is a stranger btw) to be offended, want to give the benefit of the doubt, don't want to be rude, whatnot, by darting off the elevator. The act of being polite can essentially override our own biological triggers/cues/ warnings. There were many other examples in the book, but this is the only one I am recalling.

I’m not certain, but that sounds like it might be one of my favourite books “The Gift of Fear: And Other Signals That Protect Us from Violence” by Gavin De Becker.

My Brother bought it for me years ago and I read it periodically.

He talks about the elevator scenario and many others. He gives real life accounts where woman felt a niggling idea of “hmmm, this doesn’t feel exactly right” but didn’t want to come across as rude or judgmental.

He gives stats that show in most sexual assaults, the women can think back on subtle signals their bodies gave that things were ‘off’.

Fear can be a primal gift. Societal ‘niceties’ mute it.

 

[kyuuei]

I can be seen as very rude.. and have been perceived that way by many people in my life. I prefer to it to being seen as sickeningly polite..

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I’m not certain, but that sounds like it might be one of my favourite books “The Gift of Fear: And Other Signals That Protect Us from Violence” by Gavin De Becker.

My Brother bought it for me years ago and I read it periodically.

He talks about the elevator scenario and many others. He gives real life accounts where woman felt a niggling idea of “hmmm, this doesn’t feel exactly right” but didn’t want to come across as rude or judgmental.

He gives stats that show in most sexual assaults, the women can think back on subtle signals their bodies gave that things were ‘off’.

Fear can be a primal gift. Societal ‘niceties’ mute it.

All I can say is, if I have that sense when someone isn't showing any direct physical threat or aren't crossing any immediate boundaries?

I listen to that real fast. I don't question it.

Also, practicing jujitsu helped a lot because it makes you respect your own limits. No one is invincible. You're not going to be undefeated and a gun or knife changes odds dramatically. Best not to get into a situation when you can avoid it.

I work in an industrial area and am often alone after hours in the warehouse when it's locked up. There's an office up front and I keep the door locked when alone.

On occasions, I've gotten a couple people knocking on the door. I speak through it. I never open it. I think the last time some guy wanted to use my phone. Nope. You can tell me the number, I will call on your behalf. The guy left!

There are always ways to help people without endangering oneself. Someone asks you for directions? (I used to run and guys would stop in their car and ask you this sh*t.)

That's something where I never got in front of the vehicle. Never ran ahead. Never approached them. If they came up too close, I would back away. I would tell them nearest location to GET directions (i.e. Gas station around the corner guy. Ask them). I would stop running even. Wait for them to go. Get the plate and keep running.

Women do care too much about being SEEN as being nice or pleasant. But we are playing with primal and society functions. With experience, we can discern when to act and how with better maturity and wisdom.

We're pretty good naturally at knowing when something is f*cky.

It's like we have ESPN or something.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

All I can say is, if I have that sense when someone isn't showing any direct physical threat or aren't crossing any immediate boundaries?

I listen to that real fast. I don't question it.

Also, practicing jujitsu helped a lot because it makes you respect your own limits. No one is invincible. You're not going to be undefeated and a gun or knife changes odds dramatically. Best not to get into a situation when you can avoid it.

I work in an industrial area and am often alone after hours in the warehouse when it's locked up. There's an office up front and I keep the door locked when alone.

On occasions, I've gotten a couple people knocking on the door. I speak through it. I never open it. I think the last time some guy wanted to use my phone. Nope. You can tell me the number, I will call on your behalf. The guy left!

There are always ways to help people without endangering oneself. Someone asks you for directions? (I used to run and guys would stop in their car and ask you this sh*t.)

That's something where I never got in front of the vehicle. Never ran ahead. Never approached them. If they came up too close, I would back away. I would tell them nearest location to GET directions (i.e. Gas station around the corner guy. Ask them). I would stop running even. Wait for them to go. Get the plate and keep running.

Women do care too much about being SEEN as being nice or pleasant. But we are playing with primal and society functions. With experience, we can discern when to act and how with better maturity and wisdom.

We're pretty good naturally at knowing when something is f*cky.

It's like we have ESPN or something.

Great practical stuff. I especially like the idea of avoiding a situation altogether.

I used to be the type who would not get out of an elevator, would stop to answer questions...and after getting into a few dicey situations realized I had to get smarter (that book I mentioned helped).

You can get airhorn's from the dollar store and I carry them when I am on public transportation late at night. I used to carry pepper spray but I honestly think I would just end up having it used against me.

The first time I used the air horn I hesitated because part of my brain was saying "but he's drunk, maybe he's sad, this is gonna get him in trouble..." but I reminded myself that I hadn't asked for his attention and he was bringing trouble on himself. The noise summons help very quickly.

It's interesting that the man who asked you to make the phone call ended up just leaving. We never know who we 'just avoided'. It's sobering. Not cause for fear-based living. Just cause for mindful caution.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Great practical stuff. I especially like the idea of avoiding a situation altogether.

I used to be the type who would not get out of an elevator, would stop to answer questions...and after getting into a few dicey situations realized I had to get smarter (that book I mentioned helped).

You can get airhorn's from the dollar store and I carry them when I am on public transportation late at night. I used to carry pepper spray but I honestly think I would just end up having it used against me.

The first time I used the air horn I hesitated because part of my brain was saying "but he's drunk, maybe he's sad, this is gonna get him in trouble..." but I reminded myself that I hadn't asked for his attention and he was bringing trouble on himself. The noise summons help very quickly.

It's interesting that the man who asked you to make the phone call ended up just leaving. We never know who we 'just avoided'. It's sobering. Not cause for fear-based living. Just cause for mindful caution.

You know what's interesting? The guys I work with who come and go, even the drivers who can be strangers,never ask why the door is locked. They *know* why it is. Some have even commented on how smart it is.

It's always interesting to see men realize these common sense approaches but then in the dating world these lines of danger vs intimacy border on offense and politeness.

There's no real point to all this. Just that a strange man trying to get to know you, with no ill intent can look indistinct from a strange man that may have ill intent and sometimes the only way women can vet that is that ineffable sense of something ain't right.

Not that it's correct all the time. I wonder how men describe what scenarios that this self-preservational sense appears. They have it. I think we all have it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Health and fitness ? Seriously !?

 

[virtualinsanity]

Giving my opinion when it's asked of me, wouldn't be rude.

 

[entropie]

I think porn is part of the problem. I mean the expectations men have of women having to be so nice, welcoming, accepting. ..

You have no idea about what kind of porn I like

 

[solpi]

I'm very rude and straight up but when a guy comes onto me I make friendly conversation because I'm oblivious. It's going to end up getting me killed one day so I should work on that.

 

[Metis]

You know what's interesting? The guys I work with who come and go, even the drivers who can be strangers,never ask why the door is locked. They *know* why it is.

 

[biohazard]

I have no problems being self-assertive and holding it down. I often have a "don't fuck with me" kind of bubble and I think it's from being an ex New Yorker and growing up in the hood. I experienced a lot.

One time in Seattle, a man came up to me and cut my path to the McDonalds bathroom. He asked to use my phone and I looked at him like he was crazy. That just doesnt happen in NYC. But I screamed "No!" at him and ran to the bathroom (had to go so bad).

Another time, this old homeless guy was preying on this girl next to me on the subway. He kept looking at her up and down making her feel uncomfortable. He wouldn't stop saying sexual things so I acted like she was my best friend. I kept screaming at him, saying shit like "STOP ASKING MY BEST FRIEND FOR SEX, SHE DOESNT KNOW YOU!!!". I made him look like a compete fool and I got everyone on the subway to joiin in and make him get out. He finally left. She was very thankful and I felt heartbroken for her. I exchanged numbers with her and asked her to text me if she was okay when she got off her next stop.

I know what it's like to feel uncomfortable. I've been harrassed and touched inappropriately by men AND women. So if I can raise my voice and use my knife, I will. ^^^Stuff like above is also why I have my gun license and why I choose to lift heavy.

 

[Fidelia]

When I first started busking, I was unprepared for some things - people who don't let go when they shake hands, people who think that being a street performer means you are poor and are willing to have sex, mentally ill or imbalanced people wanting information about your birthdate so they can read your numerology chart, old or married men assuming they had a chance, people asking questions or that were too personal, even if they weren't sexual.

Over time, I learned that with a bit of self scripting ahead of time, I could very firmly establish boundaries while still remaining pleasant.

When drunks proferred a hand, I shook it in such a way that I was holding their fingers, so I could decide when to let go. If people asked me for personal info, I'd tell them pleasantly that I just don't share personal information with people I don't know well. When people stood too close, I'd tell them where they needed to stand if I was going to play. Occasionally I had people who wanted to send money me video or pics of me performing (this was before everyone had a portable recording device with them), and I had selected email for that sort of thing and was extremely candid about what I thought I'd people took it as an invitation to offer me their hotel room number etc. When people assumed I'd be flattered and pleased at being invited out for dinner, I learned that it's okay to just say "No thank you". I made a point of playing in front of places that knew me and made sure that I checked in with people close to me about my plans. It was a valuable experience, both in realizing that gut feelings are usually right, and in learning how to become appropriately assertive when people are rude enough to violate the basic standards of how to interact.