[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Ni - What the hell is it?

[Poki]

I gave two of my own examples just above this post, and also accepted Uumlau's example as something indirectly related to INTJ.

So you say there are no examples and then...

 

[Mal12345]

So you say there are no examples and then...

That was before they were posted. I've also said that you don't have any, and you don't.

 

[violet_crown]

Here's another Ni example, a real one this time, about Henri Poincare:
"He never spent a long time on a problem since he believed that the subconscious would continue working on the problem while he consciously worked on another problem."
Henri Poincare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This resonates. I don't usually "think" through problems, particularly complex ones. I just do my best to define the question, throw it down the shoot, and go for a run or something. By the time I'm finished running, I'll have my answer.

 

[á´…eparted]

This resonates. I don't usually "think" through problems, particularly complex ones. I just do my best to define the question, throw it down the shoot, and go for a run or something. By the time I'm finished running, I'll have my answer.

Basically the same for me. Sans the running. I hate running.

It can be frustrating at times though if something doesn't come to you. Makes you feel like you don't have that much control.

 

[1487610420]

yes

 

[Fidelia]

For me, it's taken me a long time to be able to explain to my ENFJ mother that when I put off decision making, it is not procrastination or apathy. It has more to do with needing all the data to come in (even if I couldn't define what all I'm looking for), and it's happened enough times that once I've pondered the questions for a time, all the sudden everything comes into focus and I'm ready to take action. It frustrates me that even I often don't know when that will be, but I am now convinced that it is actually a process that has a purpose, even though from the outside it resembles just not bothering to take action when it's called for. In the times I have rushed on before I've felt things click into place, I've usually regretted it and realized I had reservations for a reason, because I was missing adequate information.

 

[Poki]

And so you will say I disagree with your examples. But you haven't given any. You've given your psychological spin on Ni. I don't disagree with your examples because they don't exist. I disagree with trying to explain Ni because it can't be explained without relying on some kind of mysticism, as with Jung. People have flashes of insight, and we don't know why. You can call it a synthesis, but it doesn't explain the cause.

I can usually explain it if i know the person. But if your stuck in mysticism...it applies to Si as well...its Pi actually

So is this, how does Ni feel or what is it?

 

[Mal12345]

I can usually explain it if i know the person. But if your stuck in mysticism...it applies to Si as well...its Pi actually

So is this, how does Ni feel or what is it?

Why do you say I'm stuck in mysticism?

 

[Poki]

You're Ni-dominant, apparently. If you want to explain Ni, then describe yourself.

Now that I've had some time to ponder your example above, waiting for people to stop debating and then jumping in with a thread-puller is a great example of Ni applied in a Te kind of way. Ni within the mind operates by sudden insight, but it often has to wait for the mental hubbub to calm down first and then brings order out of chaos (Te). It operates the same way outside the mind.

For a "dominant" function sudden insight is short lived which means they are actually dominant something else using that mindset...or maybe its the process that they use day in and day out that is Ni and the sudden insight is an actual subconcious function.


I meant stuck on mysticism...for example...Ni loves to get stuck on a perception and thing...if i could just get this out it explains perfectly...ooohhh...Ni moment...i got it....that moment is NOT Ni, its the internal perception day in and day out. Their DOMINANT function.

Ni is the "stuck" the "belief"...internal perception, the intuition so up until it comes out Ni is rolling around doing its thing. The end is not the function, its the result of the function...its what they sit in most of the time.

Its why i call them a "solid" head in the clouds as opposed to a bouncy head in cloud like Ne. Yes, Se vs Si is the same, i am the bouncy version of S.

 

[Ene]

For me, it's taken me a long time to be able to explain to my ENFJ mother that when I put off decision making, it is not procrastination or apathy. It has more to do with needing all the data to come in (even if I couldn't define what all I'm looking for), and it's happened enough times that once I've pondered the questions for a time, all the sudden everything comes into focus and I'm ready to take action. It frustrates me that even I often don't know when that will be, but I am now convinced that it is actually a process that has a purpose, even though from the outside it resembles just not bothering to take action when it's called for. In the times I have rushed on before I've felt things click into place, I've usually regretted it and realized I had reservations for a reason, because I was missing adequate information.

I love the way you explained this. It totally desribes my own experiences with people rushing me or accusing me of not taking action. I have had some people feel the need to jump in and start talking for me. I hate that.

 

[Mal12345]

For a "dominant" function sudden insight is short lived which means they are actually dominant something else using that mindset...or maybe its the process that they use day in and day out that is Ni and the sudden insight is an actual subconcious function.


I meant stuck on mysticism...for example...Ni loves to get stuck on a perception and thing...if i could just get this out it explains perfectly...ooohhh...Ni moment...i got it....that moment is NOT Ni, its the internal perception day in and day out. Their DOMINANT function.

Ni is the "stuck" the "belief"...internal perception, the intuition so up until it comes out Ni is rolling around doing its thing. The end is not the function, its the result of the function...its what they sit in most of the time.

Its why i call them a "solid" head in the clouds as opposed to a bouncy head in cloud like Ne. Yes, Se vs Si is the same, i am the bouncy version of S.

As [MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION] said above, 'This resonates. I don't usually "think" through problems, particularly complex ones. I just do my best to define the question, throw it down the shoot, and go for a run or something. By the time I'm finished running, I'll have my answer.'

That's an example of Ni at work. But there is a consciousness of the subconscious nature of the process. There is a consciousness of the fact that something happens and an answer appears. It doesn't require typology to know this on a conscious level, and in fact it's a phenomenon that's been discussed long before typology was even a thing.

 

[Poki]

As [MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION] said above, 'This resonates. I don't usually "think" through problems, particularly complex ones. I just do my best to define the question, throw it down the shoot, and go for a run or something. By the time I'm finished running, I'll have my answer.'

That's an example of Ni at work. But there is a consciousness of the subconscious nature of the process. There is a consciousness of the fact that something happens and an answer appears. It doesn't require typology to know this on a conscious level, and in fact it's a phenomenon that's been discussed long before typology was even a thing.

I do that all the time. I just call it a break, not Ni i am awesome at this Ni thing and i didnt even know it was Ni. So what are you during "during" the breaks, i mean leading up to Ni moments?

 

[Mal12345]

I do that all the time. I just call it a break, not Ni i am awesome at this Ni thing and i didnt even know it was Ni. So what are you during "during" the breaks, i mean leading up to Ni moments?

What are you awesome at exactly? If you're talking about straining to remember something that's just on the tip of your tongue, the trick to think about something else or do something else, and the memory suddenly comes back. There are different kinds of "breaks" such as that.

 

[Poki]

What are you awesome at exactly? If you're talking about strainging to remember something that's just on the tip of your tongue, the trick to think about something else or do something else, and the memory suddenly comes back. There are different kinds of "breaks" such as that.

I am talking about, after sitting and analyzing i give up and put it off until the answer appears. Not memory...i am talking about analysis of data. Its a avoidance personality mechanism that avoids until an answer is found. I just had this discussion with my GF not to long ago. Some go off of first partial truth or react in other ways.

I never called this Ni processing. Thinking or Ti is rolling stuff around in my head, like almost reptitively fine tuning. I do that ALL the time. I also use pattern recognition which i struggle with more then dom Ni because it ALWAYS passes through my Ti which means its fine tuned and damn it...the pattern match is wrong here and here and here which will cause this and this and this. Its a search for truth. A search that a Dom Ni doesnt do...because its not about "truth" but transferance of perception through pattern matching. Goal is transferance, not accuracy. If the person can see the perception its successful whether accurate or not to life.

When i am on the phone with my INTJ boss and my ENFJ co-worker. I am the middle man between Ni pattern matching and her inability to understand his pattern. I have to break down his pattern into another pattern that is a much closer match then what he uses that she would understand. I become the middle man of communication between Ni and dom Fe. He jumps on pattern based off of programming and i have to cross reference it to walmart process that she understands. This drives me nuts because of the inaccuracies and "truth" which aligns with inferior Ti because i can answer her questions of inaccuracies and its affect based on pattern matching....


Damn, that was alot. I know, not much compared to Ni...just a continuos explanation accuracy stream.

 

[Mal12345]

I am talking about, after sitting and analyzing i give up and put it off until the answer appears. Not memory...i am talking about analysis of data. Its a avoidance personality mechanism that avoids until an answer is found. I just had this discussion with my GF not to long ago. Some go off of first partial truth or react in other ways.

I never called this Ni processing. Thinking or Ti is rolling stuff around in my head, like almost reptitively fine tuning. I do that ALL the time. I also use pattern recognition which i struggle with more then dom Ni because it ALWAYS passes through my Ti which means its fine tuned and damn it...the pattern match is wrong here and here and here which will cause this and this and this. Its a search for truth. A search that a Dom Ni doesnt do...because its not about "truth" but transferance of perception through pattern matching.

When i am on the phone with my INTJ boss and my ENFJ co-worker. I am the middle man between Ni pattern matching and her inability to understand his pattern. I have to break down his pattern into another pattern that is a much closer match then what he uses that she would understand. I become the middle man of communication between Ni and dom Fe. He jumps on pattern based off of programming and i have to cross reference it to walmart process that she understands. This drives me nuts because of the inaccuracies and "truth" which aligns with inferior Ti because i can answer her questions of inaccuracies and its affect based on pattern matching....


Damn, that was alot. I know, not much compared to Ni...just a continuos explanation accuracy stream.

You kind of drifted away at the end. But I have a question: when it comes to using the word "stuff," I find it very off-putting because it doesn't mean anything typologically. It could be sensory stuff, or ideas, or a mixture.

 

[Poki]

You kind of drifted away at the end. But I have a question: when it comes to using the word "stuff," I find it very off-putting because it doesn't mean anything typologically. It could be sensory stuff, or ideas, or a mixture.

For me its rolling around words. Like repetitive rambling. No real path, it just goes wherever it goes. Its conceptual, nothing sensory. Thats my external function. When i write its given better direction, but i still fine tune as i go for clarity and go back over the same thoughts for clarity.

My sensory side is a method of pulling data in, lots of data. Would overwhelm to analyze it all to a deep degree.

 

[violet_crown]

I do that all the time. I just call it a break, not Ni i am awesome at this Ni thing and i didnt even know it was Ni. So what are you during "during" the breaks, i mean leading up to Ni moments?

You seem to want to Ni. You should. You should very much Ni.

 

[1487610420]

You seem to want to Ni. You should. You should very much Ni.

 

[Mal12345]

Stolen -

Starting at 2:24
"You don't know, ordinarily, how introverted intuition works. So when a man has a hunch, you can't tell exactly...where that hunch comes from. It is something - funny - about intuition."

 

[nonsequitur]

I find it easier to think of Ni as an instinctual grasp of "perspective". Those "sudden flash of insight" thingies just make it sound mystical and God-given, when really it's not. Ni understands that truth is subjective and in relation to the total experience of the individual.

Referencing Akira Kurosawa's Rashomon, you can have 4 vastly different stories told by 4 people about the same event. Ne/Ti would go over each of the stories looking for inconsistencies in logic and pick the "best" one. Ni would synthesise a version that fits all 4 versions together given the people involved, which allows the event to be seen from different lenses. That's why it's so hard to explain - there's no one "right" version, and we can easily shift within our own constructed "correct" version, jumping from one person's pov to the next. That's also why it's an illogical function that requires an external judging function like Te or Fe to "order" stuff so that it becomes sensible and understandable in the external world.

I think I had a conversation before on this site with another INTJ scientist about how our grasp of concepts/situations is very visual and spatial, which makes it very hard to verbalise or contextualise for others. This impatience/frustration at being unable to readily "translate" what appears to be self-apparent to us makes us come across as being arrogant.

When we put off decisions and "wait" for some missing information to come along, that's crucial because we sense that an important link is missing that would affect our perspective, but until it's filled in, it would be impossible to identify what it was, or why it was important. But once we've chosen and proceed to act, the entire chain/network of information that led to that decision is used to support it.

I'm not sure if that's any clearer than the previous attempts to define it in this thread.