OITNB Discussion Thread.

[fetus]

Binge-watched Season 4 this weekend and I need to debrief. Where are my fellow fans?

It was an intense season. Very dark, very heartbreaking, yet very insightful.

Let's use the "spoiler" function appropriately here.

 

[/DG/]

Holy Jesus season 4 is here??????????????? Need to watch soon!!

 

[fetus]

Holy Jesus season 4 is here??????????????? Need to watch soon!!

Yes please I watched too fast and I feel like I'm ahead of most people. There's nobody to discuss with.

 

[/DG/]

Yes please I watched too fast and I feel like I'm ahead of most people. There's nobody to discuss with.

Hmm well I don't have Netflix, so I'll have to check to see if it is up on my streaming sites yet. I think sometimes it takes a little while. Also, I just started with new job, so may be a bit busier than I was previously...but I will try to watch a bit soon so we can chat.

 

[meme duchess]

I just finished the 10th episode and starting the 11th. I need someone to watch with it right now so they can simultaneously freak out with me because fuck. Will definitely be here in a while, though!

 

[AlphabetPie]

I just wanna say that Blanca's backstory was super satisfying. I like that she got some character development this season.

 

[meme duchess]

Caputo is a piece of shit, what the fuck.

 

[fetus]

Caputo is a piece of shit, what the fuck.

Ehh. There are other people I'd rather call pieces of shit first. The new guards, for one. They're just ruthless.

Also, Piper has been really slimy this season.

 

[prplchknz]

Caputo is a piece of shit, what the fuck.

i feel like caputo is easy to blame but it's really MCC pulling the strings and has a lot of leverage over caputo he is trying to get them to call the police and yeah it's a fucked up situtaion

 

[meme duchess]

Ehh. There are other people I'd rather call pieces of shit first. The new guards, for one. They're just ruthless.

Also, Piper has been really slimy this season.

Not disagreeing, but - I mean, I kind of held him up to a higher standard than the new guards. (That, and was caught up in the moment when live-posting. Heh) It's annoying because the whole entire time, I was conflicted between different judgements. It was clear he understood the predicament the inmates were in, with a few examples being preaching to Piscatella about the importance in being humane, especially when choosing punishments for the girls but he doesn't actually really... do much to fix it. In this specific case, actions speak louder than words. The only realy example I can think of is when he took that picture of Sophia in Shu as a form of blackmail.

I can sympathize, at the very least, the struggles he went through but I'm not saying they're fully justified.

And agreed. Besides Piscatella, Humphrey. Oh god. He was disgusting. The only new guard I could sympathize for was Bayley. Not saying that he's perfect but it was clear he was more concerned about the actual wellbeing of the women than the guards. (I mean there's Healy but... Healy. Mixed feelings for that guy, haha - though I slightly softened up to him this season, especially in terms of his relationship with Lolly. Still kind of "meh" because he has one hell of a messiah complex. I think he thinks he wants to help people but I feel like he's driven to do that to make him feel better about himself, or to not feel as alone. I don't really know, I might get back to it later) I'm just so upset that he had to be the person who ended up killing Poussey because while I'm not saying he's the victim (at least, in the context of death), he's not necessarily the villian either. And Poussey... oh, gosh.

Blah.

And hah, I know. Not gonna lie, when she got the swastika, I was so fucking happy. Karma's a bitch. (Not as much as Piper, though. Jokes. Piper can be okay, except when she's not which is a lot of the time - especially in Season 3 and the beginning of Season 4.) She took advantage of her privilege, disregarded her values for the sake of self-preservation, while simultaneously avoiding to consider about the well-being of others. (I knew I'd dislike her for a while after the Stella scene lol.) I could see her attempting to make up for her kind-of-shitty attitude later on in the episodes which I can appreciate in her but that doesn't make up for a lot of the damage she caused (i.e. the addition of 3-5 years for Ruiz' panty business - which she ended up being the mind-master for but #that'snoneofmybusiness).

So much more to think about so I might make an OP later on about general thoughts if I have the time but I like where this is headed! Especially once there are more people, heh.

 

[Ivy]

I'm only a few episodes in, but it's a great season so far.

-Piper seems like even more of a terrible person than usual. I'm glad she's no longer the focus of the show, just one inmate of many. And not really one of the most interesting ones.

-Caputo (keeping in mind that I don't know what he does in later episodes to deserve meme duchess's ire, so I reserve the right to revise this statement)- he's a great character, because you think he's a slimeball but then he does something that shows he has heart. Then you think maybe he's redeemed himself and he does something that reveals there's still plenty of slimeball in there. I love characters who are neither fully "good guys" nor fully "bad guys."

 

[meme duchess]

i feel like caputo is easy to blame but it's really MCC pulling the strings and has a lot of leverage over caputo he is trying to get them to call the police and yeah it's a fucked up situtaion

100% agreed, especially with the bolded part. Even the small things, though - with one example being proactive and keeping more of an eye on the inmates instead of, well, doing nothing lol. He takes action, yes, but to me, I feel he only really does it when it becomes nearly too late to do much - in other words, when he sees tangible consequences starting to play out. He's too easily influenced, I think. I'm not saying that's the full cause of why Litchfield's turning more shitty than it had been before but simple things like choosing to stay with his girlfriend instead of overlooking the prison. If that had happened, there's a likelier chance he would've prevented Piscatella from interrogating whoever he deemed as suspicious - that, and preventing Humphrey from getting Suzanne and Kukudio to fight each-other. MCC does have a lot of influence, yes, but bottom-line is Caputo didn't do as much as he could've. Not productive to get angry and blame him for it but I mean... c'mon.

 

[meme duchess]

I'm only a few episodes in, but it's a great season so far.

-Piper seems like even more of a terrible person than usual. I'm glad she's no longer the focus of the show, just one inmate of many. And not really one of the most interesting ones.

-Caputo (keeping in mind that I don't know what he does in later episodes to deserve meme duchess's ire, so I reserve the right to revise this statement)- he's a great character, because you think he's a slimeball but then he does something that shows he has heart. Then you think maybe he's redeemed himself and he does something that reveals there's still plenty of slimeball in there. I love characters who are neither fully "good guys" nor fully "bad guys."

Piper: Agreed.

Caputo: Ahah, you articulated that extremely well. The "slimy" bits of him that pop up every now and then are the driving fuel for my anger, I'd have to say. I don't hate him (and if I did, it would be a lot more mild compared to some other characters) but... to be the least specific I can be, at least until you finish most and if not the entire season, he doesn't use the power he has to his full ability. How much "power" he has is still debatable because as [MENTION=360]prplchknz[/MENTION] said, the situation is getting more and more corrupted by MLC (lol there's also Judy King but) so the label of "warden" sort of becomes irrelevant. Not completely, of course, but little by little it becomes more evident.

 

[meme duchess]

I don't feel like I can say much without putting spoilers (ahh, whoops, I don't think I said anything without the spoiler anyone would deem as too problematic or spoiler-y but if I did, just tell me and I'll revise/edit ASAP) so I'm extremely excited until any of you who might be lurking are finished because - as Fetus implied, there's so much thatswent on that would take hours to have a conversation about so.

Also a lot on my mind so if any of the ramblings ended up being tangent-y or confusing, I'll try to clarify as much as I can, aha.

 

[meme duchess]

I just wanna say that Blanca's backstory was super satisfying. I like that she got some character development this season.

Agreed. I think Brook's backstory has been my favorite so far, actually. (Blanca's was sort of amusing to me, heh - I do think she has been one of the more ambigious characters, though, so having an idea of how she ended up in the place that she did is fascinating.)

 

[meme duchess]

Hmm well I don't have Netflix, so I'll have to check to see if it is up on my streaming sites yet. I think sometimes it takes a little while. Also, I just started with new job, so may be a bit busier than I was previously...but I will try to watch a bit soon so we can chat.

If it isn't, there's this really good website called Rabbit where you can watch Netflix (and, in general, browse the internet) with other people so if any of you guys want to watch it because you haven't or want to rewatch, watching it on there would be kind of cool - and hopefully convenient.

 

[/DG/]

Disclaimer: I have not read anything yet in this thread because I am a bit afraid to.

REQUEST: Can you all please put what episode that we need to watch up until in your spoiler tag? So the formatting will be like...
S4E01

Spoiler relating things before and and/or up until this episode goes here.

I am only a few episodes in thus far, and I don't want to accidentally read beyond what I have seen. So I am not going to read much in here unless people state what episode they are talking about.

I will say that the season has started off a bit slow for my tastes. Maybe I am just remembering the past seasons differently, but things are sort of meandering around a bit and the flow isn't that great.

My biggest laugh out loud moment so far this season out of the two episodes I've watched was in S4E02...

I am a big sucker for very unexpected, hilariously offensive one liners. The big one so far in this season was when Red was talking to DeMarco about Rosa's snoring.

Red: Rosa snored, didn't she?
DeMarco: Like a spoon in the garbage disposal.
Red: So, what did you do about it?
DeMarco: Mostly, I just waited for her to die of cancer.

I straight up had to pause the show to compose myself before continuing!

Before this, the biggest offensive and unexpected joke came in a board meeting in season 3.

Guy: There's a program for kosher meals that we feel is being abused. I have a plan to adress it. Also, I've located a new source for soap.
Woman: Is it the Jews?

I practically died after hearing that. Best offensive and unexpected line ever. 10/10.

Guess I have a thing for dark humor

Here is the storyline I am most interested in thus far (S4E02 again):

I am really interested to see how Doggett's storyline will pan out. I thought she had for the most part healed with the help of Big Boo, but I see that this hasn't really been the case. It is also interesting that Coates has not seemed to go after other women. He weirdly isn't purposefully malicious and is still unfortunately obsessed with Doggett.

Here is what I am really NOT liking so far (S4E02):

The most annoying thing out of this season so far is Piper, though. Christ, she has become essentially a cartoon villain. It is so cringey and annoying that I just cannot stand to see her on the screen. Hopefully it won't be this horrendous to watch as time goes on...because it is actually ruining the atmosphere a bit to me. The show is supposed to be about realism, bu I cannot fathom an actual person acting that way. It isn't even believable People have been annoyed with Piper in past seasons and I never have been before. NOW I am though and I really just do not like it.

 

[Ivy]

Just finished the season.

I am devastated. Poussey? Whoever posted the cinnamon bun upthread was right on. Innocent Poussey, too beautiful for this world. Sadly, I figured something was up when she started having hopes and dreams for after her release.

They made the perfect choice to have Poussey's death come at the hands of the baby-faced guard. If it had been one of the more one-dimensional characters (Piscatello or Humphrey) we could have just villainized him and we wouldn't have had to confront having some sympathy for the killer. But since it was that little Wonder Years boy it can be more complicated than "bad man kill good lady." (I do know that's not Fred Savage but doesn't he look like him?)

I am so torn on this show. On one hand I feel like it exposes people like me, middle-class whites who don't really know what people without our level of privilege go through, and we can't do anything to dismantle white supremacy without knowing about it. But at the same time I also feel like it's almost a kind of "social justice porn," using the bodies and pain of people of color to make people like me feel something we wouldn't normally feel. And as we see with many of the privileged characters (the guards, Caputo, Healey, etc.), knowing better doesn't usually translate into doing anything about it.

I think that's the big thing about Caputo- he COULD do something, but he's weak. He talks big about respecting the prisoners and changing the system, and he has a certain amount of power to do something about it, but did he pick up the fucking phone and call the cops? No, he waited for the corporate assholes to get their angle first, because they cut his checks. When it comes right down to it, he's covering his own ass. And then when he does the press conference, he takes a stand, but it's for Wonder Years, not the inmates. It's just frustrating because he seems to "get it" to a certain degree. That's the point- "getting it" isn't enough.

 

[miss fortune]

Piper is, in a way, responsible for almost everything bad that's happened this season... she got in a spat with the hispanic inmates and caused the guards to crack down on them which is why Blanca refused to shower and had to stand on the table which triggered everything up to Poussey's death. Just because Piper wanted to play panty kingpin

also, had she been there for Alex last season instead of obsessing over her business, the whole thing with Lolly killing the assassin might not have gone down and bones wouldn't have been found in the garden... yeah, Piper fucks up everything

as a note on what [MENTION=2]Ivy[/MENTION] said about feeling torn on the show... I HAVE been on both sides of the law at various points in my past because I was a dumbass in my younger years and was always fascinated by how women's prison is different from men's (learned from men who I know who have gone to jail and documentaries)... I kind of like how the show does show some of the gender differences that you don't usually get to see and that shit about finding feminine hygiene products is REAL I had to beg one off of my aryan nation wannabe cellmate once who I was scared of because the guards told me to just use toilet paper because it wasn't their problem...

 

[Ivy]

Piper is, in a way, responsible for almost everything bad that's happened this season... she got in a spat with the hispanic inmates and caused the guards to crack down on them which is why Blanca refused to shower and had to stand on the table which triggered everything up to Poussey's death. Just because Piper wanted to play panty kingpin

also, had she been there for Alex last season instead of obsessing over her business, the whole thing with Lolly killing the assassin might not have gone down and bones wouldn't have been found in the garden... yeah, Piper fucks up everything

as a note on what [MENTION=2]Ivy[/MENTION] said about feeling torn on the show... I HAVE been on both sides of the law at various points in my past because I was a dumbass in my younger years and was always fascinated by how women's prison is different from men's (learned from men who I know who have gone to jail and documentaries)... I kind of like how the show does show some of the gender differences that you don't usually get to see and that shit about finding feminine hygiene products is REAL I had to beg one off of my aryan nation wannabe cellmate once who I was scared of because the guards told me to just use toilet paper because it wasn't their problem...

I'm not really talking about not knowing what prison is like- it's broader than that. The pain of losing a friend or family member in the way they lost Poussey, and having it be SO familiar and routine, is a specific kind of pain we'll never understand. It is not a part of our cultural experience.