Has anyone ever taken a real MBTI?

[The Ü™]

Well I really appreciate you helping me here!

I usually obsess about having my creations organized. I also put my collection of DVDs in alphabetical order, and often make sure in my writing that my grammar, punctuation, and especially clarity of my ideas are both clear and correct.

Although that compulsion seems to be wearing off now that I started chatting with others on Instant Messenger.

When I put things back into perspective, I realize that I am very hard-working and determined when it comes to things I care about, but lazy about things I'm less interested in. Though that would mean I do things according to values (Feeling).

However, I identified myself as a Thinker because I'm not really compassionate and I'm more interested in systems than people. (Although my compassion for animals is very strong.) My thoughts are typically cold-hearted. I'm one to enjoy dirty and morbid humor. (I love morgue and even Holocaust jokes.) And I'm not offended by it nor offended by other people's insults toward me. I'm definitely more perceived as unemotional and uncaring, and I also have zero tolerance for political correctness.

Though at 22, I think my Feeling side is starting to develop, because I'm starting to get interested in starting a relationship with another human (I never really had friends, let alone a girlfriend). But of course, I'd prefer for that person to enjoy and share my sense of humor.

Also, it just so happens that I have Asperger's Syndrome, and I understand, theoretically, that INTJ is a very common type for people who have it.

I guess I probably am an INTJ, but I just don't completely fit the man-of-science stereotype that Keirsey associates with the type (and the entire temperament). Studying science is more of a hobby for me -- I'm more interested in art, filmmaking, and creative writing.

I'm also an Enneagram 5w4, by the way.

 

[RDF]

That's right Fine Line ... I remember now.

I was in the Army (West Point, Armor, and Armored Cavalry) from 1979-1992. […]

Thanks for the background, Nighthawk. Interesting post.

I don't doubt that an MBTI mismatch would be more evident at the officer ranks. Even from the enlisted ranks, I could see that the junior officers did a lot of nursemaiding and gophering. New lieutenants were assigned to platoons as platoon commanders; if they enjoyed the position and got too cozy with their troops, the company office would yank them out of the platoon or load them up with so much admin work that they never saw their troops again. Junior officers were supposed to learn admin procedures, and they were supposed to view the troops as interchangeable and faceless.

Also, sorry to hear what happened with the friendly fire incident. If you had to waste five years clearing that up, then no wonder you wanted nothing more to do with the military.

I hope you don't mind if I contribute some observations based on what I saw in the enlisted ranks.

Much of the military system is geared toward a speedy resolution of problems, regardless of whether the resolution is fair or even reasonable. At the enlisted level, that mostly just meant office hours, so it often wasn't such a big deal. But it leads to a culture of covering your ass and muddying the water with the aim of deflecting blame onto others. The military just wants to move fast and close the books on problems, so there's little or no investigative mechanism and people can pull strings to confuse things or involve other people to share the blame or take the fall outright.

When I was in the Marines in 74-78, I could appreciate the positive aspects of dealing with problems expeditiously and harshly. Grunt units had convicted criminals, people who were borderline retarded, people who had never been to high school, etc. They were trained to kill and then crowded into a barracks together. When problems arose, it was necessary to come down hard and fast and it almost didn't matter whether or not you got the right person. The main thing was to keep control.

But the military today is well-educated and high-tech. Everyone has at least a high school diploma, and no one with a criminal record is allowed in. When disciplinary issues arise, the issues may be complex especially if they involve the workplace or the battlefield. A 200-year old military legal system and traditions that treat people as cannon fodder may not be up to the task.

And certainly there's no denying that there are privileged classes and internal politics. Just as an anecdote:

When I joined the Marines, a lot of reforms were underway. The military had gotten stuck in a time warp while the Vietnam war was being fought, but once the war wound down there was a lot of pressure to update the service. So they ended the draft and brought back the volunteer military, they outlawed the practice of striking the troops, they integrated women in the main services, they started raising entrance requirements so that they could attract smarter troops and bring hi-tech elements into the service, etc.

But the staff NCOs fought the changes tooth and nail. They were the old dinosaurs who had been in the Marines forever and they had a big investment in the status quo. Most had seen combat and there's no denying that they had performed honorable service in their day. Also, part of their job was to serve as experienced hands and a link to the past while the junior officers and junior enlisted troops circulated in and out of the units. So in effect they were doing their job. But the reforms were so big and the staff NCOs were so invested in the status quo that it reached the point where the staff NCOs were sandbagging or even sabotaging their own officers. The junior officers who cycled in were young idealistic college kids who took the new reforms to hearts, and the staff NCOs had nothing in common with them.

None of this had anything to do with me before I was promoted to sergeant. But once I hit E-5, I was much closer to the orbit of the staff NCOs and could see what they were doing. Also, the junior officers weren't stupid and knew they wouldn't get any cooperation from the E-7 to E-9 ranks, so they tended to come straight to the E-5s and younger E-6s to get their business done. Increasingly I found myself in the middle of the politicking. At first I sympathized with the staff NCOs; but as I saw what was happening I became increasingly disgusted and helped the officers--surreptitiously at first and then more openly over time. Eventually I realized that most other E-5s and E-6s were doing the same. I think ultimately the staff NCOs isolated themselves all the way around, and that's when they tended to get purged and forced into early retirement or whatever.

Anyway, I saw games like that played out all the time. A lot of different people had opposing claims on a given mission or personnel or equipment, and there were a lot of power struggles. Everyone was pretty much in agreement on the basics: The U.S. military had to be able to fight effectively. No one argued with the basic mission. But in garrison or in the rear or in the support units there was plenty of opportunity for squabbling and politicking over smaller pickings, and that inevitably happened.

So I would agree that anyone entering the service should be aware that the military suffers from the same sicknesses as any large bureaucracy: office politics, struggles between multiple centers of power, traditions and procedures that haven't kept pace with modern changes and are badly outdated, etc. A lot of casualties can occur before these internecine conflicts get worked out one way or another.

Again, a lot of this doesn't matter for junior enlisted troops. But for those who might want to make a career of the military, their MBTI type should be able to tolerate this kind of environment (trying to bring this post back around to the subject of this thread). I actually do remember some INTPs in the Marines, for example, but they basically barricaded themselves in the tech shops and walled themselves off from the rest of the unit. They made themselves indispensable by virtue of providing a service that the unit needed, and then they used that indispensability to dodge the politics and pursue a separate career ladder through the tech shops.

FL

 

[Park]

If you have, how much more reliable are they compared to the online questionnaires such as Human Metrics?

I was looking at the prices to take a "real" MBTI, and they're pretty outrageous. What kind of questions do the real ones ask?

My first MBTI test was professionally made and I came out as rather extreme I 79% N 93% T 79% P 71%. In my latest online test, I came out as I 67% N 88% T 75% P 33%. I am pretty extreme in my function preferences and both tests results could paint accurate pictures of me in different periods of life. As far as I can remember, the questions in the real test don't differ that much from the on-line tests. With my current knowledge of MBTI, (which is probably the same or less than yours) I wouldn't pay to have a test made again.

 

[Nighthawk]

Again, a lot of this doesn't matter for junior enlisted troops. But for those who might want to make a career of the military, their MBTI type should be able to tolerate this kind of environment (trying to bring this post back around to the subject of this thread). I actually do remember some INTPs in the Marines, for example, but they basically barricaded themselves in the tech shops and walled themselves off from the rest of the unit. They made themselves indispensable by virtue of providing a service that the unit needed, and then they used that indispensability to dodge the politics and pursue a separate career ladder through the tech shops.

I should have taken that to heart earlier in my military service. Ironically, one of the most enjoyable times I had was when I wrote a personnel administration system in DBase III when I was a squadron adjutant. I used to lock my self in the clerk's office and program away at my self-taught craft. Harbinger of things to come. It was one of the only creative outlets I ever had ... aside from some small unit tactics as a CO. The rest of the time I just spent perpetuating the system. I would imagine that SJs could find a great niche in the military. There is even a place for the virtuoso SP infantryman or tank commander. I can also envision an NTJ high up in the strategic planning areas. Not much room for the other types however.

 

[Nighthawk]

When I put things back into perspective, I realize that I am very hard-working and determined when it comes to things I care about, but lazy about things I'm less interested in. Though that would mean I do things according to values (Feeling).

Not necessarily. It took me years to realize this, but NT's have feelings too. They will naturally do more of what they enjoy ... it is just that they enjoy logic-based activities more often. Incidentally ... I am the same way. I can put off forever doing something that does not interest me. Conversely, I can work 14-hour days doing something I enjoy. What I happen to enjoy is immensely dull to many of my F friends, however.

 

[rivercrow]

Not necessarily. It took me years to realize this, but NT's have feelings too.

Shhhhh.... We're trying to keep that quiet.....

To tell the truth, once I finally understood the T/F dynamics, I realized another level of stress I'd been under. Recognizing and respecting my Feeling function helped me break from a useless cycle of logicking myself into dead-end solutions. Understanding just how much my Te skills exhausted me helped me learn to control them so that my more favored preferences have space to breathe. Now I'm recovering from years of chronic stress, largely because of Type theory.

 

[htb]

To tell the truth, once I finally understood the T/F dynamics

This probably necessitates a separate thread, but if you can elaborate on that dichotomy -- can you elaborate?

 

[rivercrow]

This probably necessitates a separate thread, but if you can elaborate on that dichotomy -- can you elaborate?

I can. I have limited internet access at the moment and am using husband's iBook when he's not using it, so I will come back when I can.

In the meantime, have a look at this thread. Although it won't answer your questions about T/F, it will get you thinking in that direction.

Edit: I wrote about some of my discoveries in my blog. Perhaps that will hold you until I can write some more.

 

[htb]

Excellent! Thank you.

 

[Forever]

Yeah. Still got INFP. :| Lol.

Wow 9 years later.. Cool.

 

[/DG/]

Yeah. Still got INFP. :| Lol.

Wow 9 years later.. Cool.

:O

Your life is a lie!

 

[highlander]

I think MBTI Step 2 is by far the most reliable thing out there but it is not perfect. One of the members here (INFJ) tested out as INTP which is definitely incorrect.

 

[/DG/]

Oh hey btw while this thread is bumped...

I SWEAR someone copied and posted a replica of the step II online somewhere for all to take. There was a link to it on this forum some time ago, but I have no idea what to search on the forums to try to find it again.

Am I misremembering things or does ANYONE out there know what I am talking about?

 

[Hawthorne]

From the test, I was 51/49 for P. From the interview, it was decided P.

I still doubt at times.

 

[/DG/]

From the test, I was 51/49 for P. From the interview, it was decided P.

I still doubt at times.

Does that mean they asserted something definite for the other three letters for you? If so, that's very interesting consider how much you seem to switch up the types in your profile.

 

[Hawthorne]

Does that mean they asserted something definite for the other three letters for you? If so, that's very interesting consider how much you seem to switch up the types in your profile.

Yes. And the switching has more to do with boredom and a dislike for being filed than actual second guessing.

 

[/DG/]

Yes. And the switching has more to do with boredom and a dislike for being filed than actual second guessing.

Yeah I had suspected that a while ago. Some parts of your type seem fairly obvious. Idk.

 

[Galena]

Yes, indeed.

IXFP, N/S too close to call.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

In the military, ENTP.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Yup, senior year of college as part of a "which career would you be suited for" type thing. I got INTP there, too.