• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Cooperation: Islam and Christianity

Mustafa

Permabanned
Joined
Sep 17, 2015
Messages
471
MBTI Type
INFP
Dude, everybody says this. :huh:


I actually agree with that to some extent. I wouldn't say malicious, you use that word too much; rather 'nearly crazy'. Especially if you're an introvert.


He seems very nice to me.
Everybody uses it, yes. But he is afraid of Allah. He has sold his soul to the devil, except he is a devil. NTs should stick to science and respect the NFs. Like in Hinduism the warriors there second and the priests (NF) first. He doesnt bother you because you are not his target.
 

Cowardly

deactivated
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
412
I'd prefer to maintain the purity and brilliance of it's original form.
:dry:
Everybody uses it, yes. But he is afraid of Allah. He has sold his soul to the devil, except he is a devil. NTs should stick to science and respect the NFs.
"Stick to science"? I'm not a robot.

Like in Hinduism the warriors there second and the priests (NF) first. He doesnt bother you because you are not his target.
I also didn't call him evil just because he disagreed with me. People are much more likely to listen to you if you don't call them names.
 

ZNP-TBA

Privileged Sh!tlord
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
3,001
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
Everybody uses it, yes. But he is afraid of Allah. He has sold his soul to the devil, except he is a devil. NTs should stick to science and respect the NFs. Like in Hinduism the warriors there second and the priests (NF) first. He doesnt bother you because you are not his target.

cartoon_devil.gif

$_35.JPG
 

Mustafa

Permabanned
Joined
Sep 17, 2015
Messages
471
MBTI Type
INFP
Well you are joining the conversation respectfully, that OK. But not him. And I prefer pain over humilation.
 

ZNP-TBA

Privileged Sh!tlord
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
3,001
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
Well you are joining the conversation respectfully, that OK. But not him. And I prefer pain over humilation.

No effort on my part is required to humiliate you. You seem to be doing just fine on your own. :shrug:
 

small.wonder

So she did.
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
965
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
And Jesus is not the son of God. In the Bible, the prophet Adam is described as son of God too. Catholics doesn't believe that Jesus is son of God. Allah says that the closes to him are those whom guards against evil, I believe that Christians guard themselves through creating many sects. They should fill the earth. I belive muslims are like brain cells and Christians are like body cells, and others are like cancer and we are in the healing process.

Look, I think people sometimes make a mistake with term "Son of God". Though Christ is, he is also fully God, just manifested as man (just as the Holy Spirit, the helper, is also fully God).

Your comment about the Trinity not making logical sense made me chuckle. If God is really an all-knowing supreme being, would you really expect human minds to be capable of fully understanding such an entity? Herein lies the problem that most people have with faith, they can't accept that anything could be more intelligent or capable than man-- this of course makes no sense in light of the concept of deity.

I do agree that Muslims, Christians, Agnostics, Mormons, Taoists, Liberals, Conservatives and fans of ice cream should all join hands, practice actual love, and care for each other. My church actually has a relationship with a local mosque, not to blend our religions (that's cray, and makes no sense) but to serve together and embrace each other as people.

That said, your claim that Christian Faith and Islam are more simmilar than not, is false from a Christian perspective. You seem to not quite understand some of the theology: Christ said that no one comes to the Father, except through him-- through the law-breaking grace that he gave us by making a sinless sacrifice of himself. This is the main difference between Islam and Christ: in Christ I have grace from a loving God, so I don't have to be perfect (which I couldn't achieve anyway)! Good fruit and a desire to live a loving, God-honoring life comes naturally out of that freedom-- which is totally different than seeking to measure up, strive or attain perfection based on a legal structure (of sin). Christ defeated sin's power over us, and all we need do is claim that-- that's why, in Christianity, there is no "worst sin" because my God is bigger than any mess we humans could find ourselves in. Islam and Judaism are still slaves to sin, with no way to sustainably atone for it. And let's be real, you sin, I sin, we all are guilty of sin. Christ just provided an eternal solution. The Christian God sacrificed his own son for his people, Allah expects you to earn your own way (even though no one can ever attain perfection enough, to be in the presence of a holy God).

So bottom line: my God and your God have very different character traits, and we have totally different ideas about how one deals with the sin problem.

I think our religions (and all others, including people who choose to not engage with spirituality) should seek to treat each other with compassion and love-- I mean, that's what Christ calls his people to do. Still, that can totally be done without "combining" our religions (which is truly disrespectful of either side, anyway). To do otherwise would be to negate my perception of truth. That's silly, and I'd never call on anyone to do that.
 

Cowardly

deactivated
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
412
Herein lies the problem that most people have with faith, they can't accept that anything could be more intelligent or capable than man-- this of course makes no sense in light of the concept of deity.
I'm personally much more concerned with its 'inventability' than its feasibility.
 

small.wonder

So she did.
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
965
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I'm personally much more concerned with its 'inventability' than its feasibility.

To each their own. I definitely felt lack of understanding in many areas of faith when I was younger, so I tore into them-- asked questions, read about other religions, read books by atheists (and also atheists turned Christ followers). I guess my point is that many times (myself included) there's a pride or fear issue when we reach a conclusion without doing open-minded investigation. Only then could I determine what I really believe is true (some based in my gut, some based in my experiences, and some based in sheer logic). It was a humbling process, but worth it.
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
4,602
That said, your claim that Christian Faith and Islam are more simmilar than not, is false from a Christian perspective. You seem to not quite understand some of the theology: Christ said that no one comes to the Father, except through him-- through the law-breaking grace that he gave us by making a sinless sacrifice of himself. This is the main difference between Islam and Christ: in Christ I have grace from a loving God, so I don't have to be perfect (which I couldn't achieve anyway)! Good fruit and a desire to live a loving, God-honoring life comes naturally out of that freedom-- which is totally different than seeking to measure up, strive or attain perfection based on a legal structure (of sin). Christ defeated sin's power over us, and all we need do is claim that-- that's why, in Christianity, there is no "worst sin" because my God is bigger than any mess we humans could find ourselves in. Islam and Judaism are still slaves to sin, with no way to sustainably atone for it. And let's be real, you sin, I sin, we all are guilty of sin. Christ just provided an eternal solution. The Christian God sacrificed his own son for his people, Allah expects you to earn your own way (even though no one can ever attain perfection enough, to be in the presence of a holy God).

See, this is interesting to me...because there are so many schools of thought in Christianity. This may be one that is perhaps most emphasized/common, but I have seen other schools that do seem to emphasize sin, fire and brimstone, and the "vengefulness" (for lack of a better term) of their god over the love and forgiveness aspect. Unfortunately, I am not knowledgeable enough to know the names of such schools, but they do seem to exist (though again seem to be not as common). How do you feel about these schools? Do you feel that they are in any way closer to Islam in their ideas?

(This isn't meant as an attack if it is coming off that way. I am genuinely interested in your opinion of them.)
 

Cowardly

deactivated
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
412
To each their own. I definitely felt lack of understanding in many areas of faith when I was younger, so I tore into them-- asked questions, read about other religions, read books by atheists (and also atheists turned Christ followers). I guess my point is that many times (myself included) there's a pride or fear issue when we reach a conclusion without doing open-minded investigation. Only then could I determine what I really believe is true (some based in my gut, some based in my experiences, and some based in sheer logic). It was a humbling process, but worth it.

It's a long road. I rarely reach any conclusions. But I don't think I would have it any other way.
 

Mustafa

Permabanned
Joined
Sep 17, 2015
Messages
471
MBTI Type
INFP
Look, I think people sometimes make a mistake with term "Son of God". Though Christ is, he is also fully God, just manifested as man (just as the Holy Spirit, the helper, is also fully God).

Your comment about the Trinity not making logical sense made me chuckle. If God is really an all-knowing supreme being, would you really expect human minds to be capable of fully understanding such an entity? Herein lies the problem that most people have with faith, they can't accept that anything could be more intelligent or capable than man-- this of course makes no sense in light of the concept of deity.

I do agree that Muslims, Christians, Agnostics, Mormons, Taoists, Liberals, Conservatives and fans of ice cream should all join hands, practice actual love, and care for each other. My church actually has a relationship with a local mosque, not to blend our religions (that's cray, and makes no sense) but to serve together and embrace each other as people.

That said, your claim that Christian Faith and Islam are more simmilar than not, is false from a Christian perspective. You seem to not quite understand some of the theology: Christ said that no one comes to the Father, except through him-- through the law-breaking grace that he gave us by making a sinless sacrifice of himself. This is the main difference between Islam and Christ: in Christ I have grace from a loving God, so I don't have to be perfect (which I couldn't achieve anyway)! Good fruit and a desire to live a loving, God-honoring life comes naturally out of that freedom-- which is totally different than seeking to measure up, strive or attain perfection based on a legal structure (of sin). Christ defeated sin's power over us, and all we need do is claim that-- that's why, in Christianity, there is no "worst sin" because my God is bigger than any mess we humans could find ourselves in. Islam and Judaism are still slaves to sin, with no way to sustainably atone for it. And let's be real, you sin, I sin, we all are guilty of sin. Christ just provided an eternal solution. The Christian God sacrificed his own son for his people, Allah expects you to earn your own way (even though no one can ever attain perfection enough, to be in the presence of a holy God).

So bottom line: my God and your God have very different character traits, and we have totally different ideas about how one deals with the sin problem.

I think our religions (and all others, including people who choose to not engage with spirituality) should seek to treat each other with compassion and love-- I mean, that's what Christ calls his people to do. Still, that can totally be done without "combining" our religions (which is truly disrespectful of either side, anyway). To do otherwise would be to negate my perception of truth. That's silly, and I'd never call on anyone to do that.
Dear small.wonder :)

I dont want to defend myself at you, because I have really critical answers. And I like Christianity, I don't wish to reveal information that the evil ones can use. But my offer to Christians to find a commond word is open. You are welcome anytime if you change your mind. Our Quran is stable and written on a guarded tablet and we have our Mecca which noone can enter except muslims so we are bulletproof, we are waiting for you. Take your time. Our Quran is unchanging and it is perfect. And you do see that we can't change our Quran to fit with your desires of love and compassion and such. So we are waiting, wait you too, and you too over there. Finally, we will UNITE.

Not all will join hands. Devils (like that Lucifer over there and he can quote me on this) wont join hands with us. Our Imam said that we have to associate with the good guys and dissasociate with the bad guys. Have to dissasociate with the bad guys, but thats us. Christians I repeat are judged by their loyality to their book, it says so in the Quran. But it doesnt harm to take a look at the Quran. It is shorter than the Bible. I couldn't read it all myself, I've read half and now I am steadily forgetting more and more of what I had read. In the future inshallah I will read again. But I am a lazy INFP :(
 

small.wonder

So she did.
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
965
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
See, this is interesting to me...because there are so many schools of thought in Christianity. This may be one that is perhaps most emphasized/common, but I have seen other schools that do seem to emphasize sin, fire and brimstone, and the "vengefulness" (for lack of a better term) of their god over the love and forgiveness aspect. Unfortunately, I am not knowledgeable enough to know the names of such schools, but they do seem to exist (though again seem to be not as common). How do you feel about these schools? Do you feel that they are in any way closer to Islam in their ideas?

(This isn't meant as an attack if it is coming off that way. I am genuinely interested in your opinion of them.)

Great questions, because you are so right! Those schools of thought are unfortunately not contained to specific denominations but strewn all over the freaking place (regardless of church, and I think more based in family culture). What you are talking about is not scripturally sound in that it kind of neglects the New Testament. It's very indicative (in many ways) of Judaism actually, in that they are still living under the Law. Christ came to crush that, to free us from a bondage, penance-based cycle of sin. I guess you could make some parallels there between that an Islam, but the character of God, and the narrative and reasons are still different.

Basically, those "legalistic" threads of Christianity are the exact people who scoffed at Jesus when he lived: those who asked him why the heck he was eating with sinners, or why he was healing people on the Sabbath (a day on which you are "not supposed to work"). Jesus taught grace, and many things that went exactly aposed to Judaism and the culture of the day (though he was a Jewish Rabbai) to love your enemies, to serve the poor, to love the hurt or ill, and a lot more. The disciples even expected him to come and be a great political king, but he had a very different kind of "glory" in mind.

I don't want to lay blame in one place (again, there's some everywhere) but I do think the Catholic Church has done a mostly crappy job of this, elevating deeds over love-- when Jesus came to remove our need to earn anything. That said, I know some Catholic exceptions to that.

The point is this: in the Christian faith, there's a balance between Love and Truth (or Grace and Justice, either way), Jesus called his followers to live in the balance of that spectrum. Not letting legalistic notions keep us from the main goal (love God, love people), yet not abandoning the Truth that God has given us in scripture and knowing that (as Paul said) "all things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial." When ever humans (who, let's face it, will screw up) live heavy on either side of the spectrum, there are issues. What you've mentioned is laying on the Truth/Justice side.

Does that make sense?
 

ZNP-TBA

Privileged Sh!tlord
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
3,001
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
Our Quran is unchanging and it is perfect.

This belief explains Islamic dogma :coffee:

Not all will join hands. Devils (like that Lucifer over there and he can quote me on this) wont join hands with us.

The religion of 'peace.' :dry:
 
Top