[Traditional Enneagram] 6w5 and 'Mansplaining'

[five sounds]

You guys are one to talk - I remember the first time I got my INFP friend in college to finally speak. I'd known him for over a year, and somehow, I'd managed to gain his trust enough so he'd let me walk him home.

Next thing I know, I'm in his bed room, getting a two hour lecture on Warhammer.
This from a man who normally barely uttered more than two words to me and mumbled them at best!

I will admit - he was absolutely adorable in all his stammering passion

I feel sometimes that I'm getting frustrated with introverts but then this kinda shit happens and it's just so damn sweet.

 

[JocktheMotie]

What does the ISFP do for a living?

 

[five sounds]

What does the ISFP do for a living?

Manages and heads the beverage program for successful privately owned restaurant.

 

[Starry]

Haha that sounds like exactly what I'm talking about! Love it.

I was just being artistically confusing in a different thread. Artistically.


That type of being talked to for a long time is gut-wrenching for us. Even the way we communicate here is an attempt at being *interactive*. Like short back-and-forth sentences is what is comfortable to me because I feel like I'm truly engaged in sharing with the person.

 

[Amargith]

Is this a figure of speech or it was litterally this ? verthinking:

This wasn't a euphemism - I got the lecture of a life time on Warhammer of all things

 

[Starry]

I just noticed that for "Similar Threads" to this one...the Banned and Damned thread is listed first wtf?


I feel that is very insensitive to the eNXJ 6w5 sx/so

 

[thoughtlost]

This thread confuses me...

but I like it

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

After reading the thread I take it [MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION] that it isn't what is said but how it is said.

Ok. This may be just communication differences than any condecension on their part. Or maybe there is? I can't tell.

But I know I tend to explain from the start if I don't know their baseline knowledge about a topic. (I'm thinking of training employees here). A lot of people cannot verbalize what they know and what point that stops. I've also learned to never assume people know "what they should".

So, I'll tell them to stop me anytime and I'll fast-forward but I always start from a place that they have never done x before.

Anyway, my advice is what [MENTION=26163]Protege[/MENTION] said. Find a place to interject in her conversation and ask a question that fills in YOUR gaps of knowledge. They will be glad to help lend their expertise and you won't waste your time and feel condescended to. Win-win.

 

[five sounds]

I was just being artistically confusing in a different thread. Artistically.


That type of being talked to for a long time is gut-wrenching for us. Even the way we communicate here is an attempt at being *interactive*. Like short back-and-forth sentences is what is comfortable to me because I feel like I'm truly engaged in sharing with the person.

YES! So is this like impossible with people like this? The struggle is so real to me lol. I'm feeling more and more like a whiny baby in this thread, but the feeling I feel that she's talking *at* me is so real and undesirable to me.

P.s. Thank you for understanding. I am doing a terrible job of conveying my situation/feelings and you seem to have nailed it.

 

[five sounds]

After reading the thread I take it [MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION] that it isn't what is said but how it is said.

Ok. This may be just communication differences than any condecension on their part. Or maybe there is? I can't tell.

But I know I tend to explain from the start if I don't know their baseline knowledge about a topic. (I'm thinking of training employees here). A lot of people cannot verbalize what they know and what point that stops. I've also learned to never assume people know "what they should".

So, I'll tell them to stop me anytime and I'll fast-forward but I always start from a place that they have never done x before.

Anyway, my advice is what [MENTION=26163]Protege[/MENTION] said. Find a place to interject in her conversation and ask a question that fills in YOUR gaps of knowledge. They will be glad to help lend their expertise and you won't waste your time and feel condescended to. Win-win.

You're correct in that it's the how. I believe there's like a 5% chance at any given time that she actually feels some level of condescension toward me. I just really dislike being lectured by a peer. I love to learn and listen, but like [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] pointed out, it makes me feel glossed over and intentionally uninvolved to be presented with things in that manner.

- - - Updated - - -

After reading the thread I take it [MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION] that it isn't what is said but how it is said.

Ok. This may be just communication differences than any condecension on their part. Or maybe there is? I can't tell.

But I know I tend to explain from the start if I don't know their baseline knowledge about a topic. (I'm thinking of training employees here). A lot of people cannot verbalize what they know and what point that stops. I've also learned to never assume people know "what they should".

So, I'll tell them to stop me anytime and I'll fast-forward but I always start from a place that they have never done x before.

Anyway, my advice is what [MENTION=26163]Protege[/MENTION] said. Find a place to interject in her conversation and ask a question that fills in YOUR gaps of knowledge. They will be glad to help lend their expertise and you won't waste your time and feel condescended to. Win-win.

You're correct in that it's the how. I believe there's like a 5% chance at any given time that she actually feels some level of condescension toward me. I just really dislike being lectured by a peer. I love to learn and listen, but like [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] pointed out, it makes me feel glossed over and intentionally uninvolved to be presented with things in that manner.

 

[GIjade]

Usually when something really bothers us in others, it is because triggers something in ourselves that needs work on.

Not always. Actually, not even mostly.

 

[GIjade]

The thing is, I don't know ALL of it. And I actually love to learn from people who are more research minded than me. But I don't know NONE of it and I don't appreciate being talked down to.

Then I'd say I think it's either her delivery or your insecurity.

 

[five sounds]

Then I'd say I think it's either her delivery or your insecurity.

Yep I think this is the exact intersection.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Not always. Actually, not even mostly.

Yes, it is. It bothers us because there are parts of ourselves that we are not comfortable with and we are irritated when we have others do it. It is a common idea in psychology.

For me, other people's anger was a huge issue. It really bothered me, triggered me hard from childhood and my brother's anger and abuse.

What I had to learn and accept to grow was that I was full of anger, anger I avoided all my life. And that anger wasn't always a bad thing. And anger doesn't represent the end of the world. And that anger represents other, deeper feelings that are being violated.

Coming to terms with my anger was very difficult. But by doing so, I am finally free (mostly) from being triggered by anger from others.

It isn't always thus, but on many issues it is. As such, it can be a guide as Ti what we need to work on with ourselves, where we need to grow.

 

[GIjade]

Yes, it is.

Not always.

It bothers us because there are parts of ourselves that we are not comfortable with and we are irritated when we have others do it. It is a common idea in psychology.

Pop psychology. If what you say is true, then everyone who is angered by seeing others abused, are themselves abusers. And that everyone who gets angry because they have to watch how our planet is being abused, wildlife, air, water, everything, then they must be abusing the planet too. Do you understand what I mean?

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Not always.

Pop psychology. If what you say is true, then everyone who is angered by seeing others abused, are themselves abusers. And that everyone who gets angry because they have to watch how our planet is being abused, wildlife, air, water, everything, then they must be abusing the planet too. Do you understand what I mean?

I didn't say that. I said there are unresolved issues related to what upsets us.

So, yeah, I was verbally abused by my brother for my entire childhood. He was a completely nasty and angry person. And then I was verbally abused by wife for years. It was very bad because she was very unhealthy, but so was I. But after I accepted my pain, it was near impossible to be around her anger.

But then, after I addressed my own suppressed anger, I can handle it much better. I am no longer triggered. Adrenaline no longer throws me into fight or flight mode every time she gets upset. I can actually handle things I couldn't handle my entire life.

So, it isn't pop psychology...... it is often reality. I am a e9. I have a difficult relationship with anger and accepting my own. So much better now.

Was I ever nasty and abusive? No, but I was consumed with anger I didn't want to accept. Accepting it was life changing..... It helped me find and build boundaries.... It helped me be a better parent and husband....

 

[GIjade]

I didn't say that. I said there are unresolved issues related to what upsets us.

So, yeah, I was verbally abused by my brother for my entire childhood. He was a completely nasty and angry person. And then I was verbally abused by wife for years. It was very bad because she was very unhealthy, but so was I. But after I accepted my pain, it was near impossible to be around her anger.

But then, after I addressed my own suppressed anger, I can handle it much better. I am no longer triggered. Adrenaline no longer throws me into fight or flight mode every time she gets upset. I can actually handle things I couldn't handle my entire life.

So, it isn't pop psychology...... it is often reality. I am a e9. I have a difficult relationship with anger and accepting my own. So much better now.

Was I ever nasty and abusive? No, but I was consumed with anger I didn't want to accept. Accepting it was life changing..... It helped me find and build boundaries.... It helped me be a better parent and husband....

Wonderful!

 

[highlander]

I think people of almost every type will do what you describe, if they are excited/passionate about something, I think much of the time they may have little idea the extent they're doing it, and I agree, on the receiving end it can become tiresome, if you're listening for a lengthy amount of time while they go on a monologue. I don't really have a good suggestion other than trying to be sensitive and not hurt their feelings when you try to cut it short or acknowledge you understand what they're saying, or don't desire to know the details, or whatever. I think it's tricky.

That's kind of my thinking

You're correct in that it's the how. I believe there's like a 5% chance at any given time that she actually feels some level of condescension toward me. I just really dislike being lectured by a peer. I love to learn and listen, but like [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] pointed out, it makes me feel glossed over and intentionally uninvolved to be presented with things in that manner.

- - - Updated - - -

You're correct in that it's the how. I believe there's like a 5% chance at any given time that she actually feels some level of condescension toward me. I just really dislike being lectured by a peer. I love to learn and listen, but like [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] pointed out, it makes me feel glossed over and intentionally uninvolved to be presented with things in that manner.

Communication is always a two way street. I am probably guilty of this leturuing on occasion. If I feel I have something important to say, I can go on about it. It doesn't matter if it is a male or female. It's that passion that drives you to keep on talking. As to 6s, they can be a bit of contrarians. Is it something to do with them disagreeing on a point or position you are making? Is part of it that it's in front of others and affects their perceptions? I'm just trying to understand.

I think in these types of situations, it's a person pushing your specific buttons. There was a book I read - "Thank You For Being Such a Pain". It talked about how God is going to put these people in your life that you will have difficulty with and if that doesn't work, you'll be thrown a harder example, then a harder one, till you figure it out. It was a pretty insightful book.

Why does it make a difference if it is a peer? What if it was a subordinate? A boss? A person you just met? Why does it matter who the message comes from? The reason I ask is that I'm of the mind that I'll listen to what anyone says and consider it. I won't discount it because who they are or how they communicate. I might think they are an ass or a fool but if they have something worthwile to say then i'll listen. All that matters is the idea. An idea from a 5 year old can be 10x better than an idea of a 40 year old. My 5 year old once instructed me on how to pack my suitcase which I could't get stuff to fit. I was like no - i travel for a living and know how to do this but thank you. She did it anyway and fixed it in 30 seconds. Then I was like, "how did you do that!!". So yeah, important ideas and points can come from anywhere.

If don't like being lectured to it tends to be because I get bored or don't have time. In verbal conversations, I tend to be about the collaboration and dialogue. I know an INTJ Enneagram 5 who does this formal lecturing thing and I have the hardest time listening to him. He's brilliant. It's just his form of communication is very ineffective with me. I will tend to interrupt him but that just breaks up the monologue into smaller parts. Most of the time this technique works with others.

 

[Tilt]

You're correct in that it's the how. I believe there's like a 5% chance at any given time that she actually feels some level of condescension toward me. I just really dislike being lectured by a peer. I love to learn and listen, but like [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] pointed out, it makes me feel glossed over and intentionally uninvolved to be presented with things in that manner.

I think it's quite simple, really. In the last few years, I have probably spent 1000+ hours dealing with some form of "mansplaining" and it gets draining not because of insecurity or necessarily a personal issue, but due to inefficiency and a disregard for the audience. It's like you wanna learn the information but you don't want it to take 3+ hours (exaggerating) to get to each invaluable nugget.... Nobody's got time for that shiz... Haha. I used to get really irritated about it but now it's all good. I just go, "That's really cool! I understand A and B but could you please tell me more about X?"

 

[GIjade]

oh, i get what "mansplaining" is now.