Dear Sensitive People

[Tennessee Jed]

can you please help me figure out how you think?

I don't really get it... most of the time I'm not sure what I've done to offend you because I really wasn't out to do so... getting yelled at for something when I'm not sure what I did kind of really, really confuses me Usually when I ask exactly what I did to make you mad you act like I should know and I don't know... that's why I asked!

There's also people (my sister...) who tend to think that I actually plan out what I say ahead of time to the point where I can actually manage to have some sort of sinister motives in what I'm saying... I don't plan things ahead of time (you should be able to tell this by reading this post!) and half of the time I'm not even sure that I'm thinking WHILE I'm speaking

I'm not accusing you of anything (other than really confusing me on a somewhat regular basis)... I just genuinely feel lost in these types of interactions and would like to understand them and figure out how to escape them with my brain intact in the future, so can you please tell me how this works?

*** note, this is based on something in real life, though I see it here sometimes as well. If you think I'm talking about you, I'm not... also, there is no motive behind this thread... please don't be mad at me

I don't know if this is what you mean. But sensitive people may be wishing you would "mirror" them better (IOW, use more Fe). For example, maybe they're feeling hesitant and vulnerable, and they express that in their tone and mannerisms. And in reaction, you try to bluster and jolly them out of their bad mood. Or you get irritated with them and tell them to buck up. But all that just pisses them off, because they want you to register their sensitivity and mirror it back to them.

Assuming that weak Fe is indeed part of the problem:

Can an ESTP get better at mirroring (Fe)? Sure. My ESTP older sister is a nurse, and she has actually gotten quite good at it. Fe is the third function of ESTPs. It's weak, but it's there and it can be developed.

Basically you just do it "by the numbers": You notice that the person is in some kind of alternate state. So you tune in, pay close attention, and do what they're doing. If they're talking slowly, then talk slowly. If they are hesitant, then be hesitant in your response. Tell them you understand that they're agitated or nervous or whatever, and ask them if there's anything you can do for them. If you want to give them advice, just say something along the line of: "I don't know if this would work for you, but here's what *I* would do. It's just an idea." And then back off and give them room to work it out for themselves.

If you're bad at a skill or a function, you can get better at it by simply doing it by the numbers.

Just for a similar example concerning Se: You recently gave a great description of how Se works for you, here in this post:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/the-sp-arthouse/78743-se-post2520088.html#post2520088

My own Se is just awful. It's my 7th function, and it absolutely sucks. But sometimes I need to use my Se. So I do it by the numbers. I kind of Si it a bit and do a count: Look in this direction, look in that direction, okay now look again in the first direction, now go. In other words, I slow down, tune in, and tell myself: "Use situational awareness here." And then I go through a count by the numbers and do my Se stuff consciously and deliberately.

Anyway, to address your problem in the OP: I'm guessing that you're weak at Fe and you're trying to blow past that weakness by bluffing your way through or something. But you can actually get good at the real thing. Just do Fe "by the numbers."

 

[miss fortune]

I don't know if this is what you mean. But sensitive people may be wishing you would "mirror" them better (IOW, use more Fe). For example, maybe they're feeling hesitant and vulnerable, and they express that in their tone and mannerisms. And in reaction, you try to bluster and jolly them out of their bad mood. Or you get irritated with them and tell them to buck up. But all that just pisses them off, because they want you to register their sensitivity and mirror it back to them.

Assuming that weak Fe is indeed part of the problem:

Can an ESTP get better at mirroring (Fe)? Sure. My ESTP older sister is a nurse, and she has actually gotten quite good at it. Fe is the third function of ESTPs. It's weak, but it's there and it can be developed.

Basically you just do it "by the numbers": You notice that the person is in some kind of alternate state. So you tune in, pay close attention, and do what they're doing. If they're talking slowly, then talk slowly. If they are hesitant, then be hesitant in your response. Tell them you understand that they're agitated or nervous or whatever, and ask them if there's anything you can do for them. If you want to give them advice, just say something along the line of: "I don't know if this would work for you, but here's what *I* would do. It's just an idea." And then back off and give them room to work it out for themselves.

If you're bad at a skill or a function, you can get better at it by simply doing it by the numbers.

Just for a similar example concerning Se: You recently gave a great description of how Se works for you, here in this post:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/the-sp-arthouse/78743-se-post2520088.html#post2520088

My own Se is just awful. It's my 7th function, and it absolutely sucks. But sometimes I need to use my Se. So I do it by the numbers. I kind of Si it a bit and do a count: Look in this direction, look in that direction, okay now look again in the first direction, now go. In other words, I slow down, tune in, and tell myself: "Use situational awareness here." And then I go through a count by the numbers and do my Se stuff consciously and deliberately.

Anyway, to address your problem in the OP: I'm guessing that you're weak at Fe and you're trying to blow past that weakness by bluffing your way through or something. But you can actually get good at the real thing. Just do Fe "by the numbers."

I'm usually pretty decent with Fe even though it is my tertiary... it's part of why I do the training and the people part of work in my section at work

Fi, however... yeah... I don't get it when someone goes, within a second, from happy and relaxed to angry the signs aren't there beforehand as a warning... it's like midwestern weather or something

it's not a common occurence in which this happens, though I find it to be a confusing enough thing that I'd ask because I have no idea what flips that switch in someone's brain

 

[Tennessee Jed]

I'm usually pretty decent with Fe even though it is my tertiary... it's part of why I do the training and the people part of work in my section at work

Fi, however... yeah... I don't get it when someone goes, within a second, from happy and relaxed to angry the signs aren't there beforehand as a warning... it's like midwestern weather or something

it's not a common occurence in which this happens, though I find it to be a confusing enough thing that I'd ask because I have no idea what flips that switch in someone's brain

Oh, okay. I think I get it. You're saying that the specific problem in the OP is that Fi-users freak you out when they suddenly go on overload and start snapping at you?

 

[miss fortune]

Oh, okay. I think I get it. You're saying that the specific problem in the OP is that Fi-users freak you out when they suddenly go on overload and start snapping at you?

indeed!

like I said in the OP... planning (including making organized posts that get all of the information that I intended for them to contain) is not my strong point

but yes, that is the problem and I can't figure out if there are safe things to do after accidentally enraging them (like running for cover) or what... I don't get why someone would DO that

 

[Tennessee Jed]

Oh, okay. Yeah, INFPs overload quickly on Se. Like I said, it's our 7th function. So being around an ESxP can be like suddenly being thrown into the middle of a circus. After a while you freak out with all the clowns and lions and elephants and shit circling around and making noise.

But FWIW, I think it's okay to call the INFP on it when they freak out. Just say, "Okay fine, I'll give you some space. But next time, don't freak out; just give me some warning when I'm getting on your nerves, and I'll back off a bit." IOW, work out a system of time-outs together.

The good thing about Fi is that you can appeal to values and ethics and try to work out a system where you can both live together. You don't necessarily have to coddle them the way Fe sometimes requires. Just acknowledge to them that you understand Se can be hard to put up with in big doses, but you're willing to work with them on a system for handling it.

My 2 cents, of course.

 

[prplchknz]

I'm usually pretty decent with Fe even though it is my tertiary... it's part of why I do the training and the people part of work in my section at work

Fi, however... yeah... I don't get it when someone goes, within a second, from happy and relaxed to angry the signs aren't there beforehand as a warning... it's like midwestern weather or something

it's not a common occurence in which this happens, though I find it to be a confusing enough thing that I'd ask because I have no idea what flips that switch in someone's brain

I want to be offended but i just can't right now.

 

[prplchknz]

Oh, okay. Yeah, INFPs overload quickly on Se. Like I said, it's our 7th function. So being around an ESxP can be like suddenly being thrown into the middle of a circus. After a while you freak out with all the clowns and lions and elephants and shit circling around and making noise.

But FWIW, I think it's okay to call the INFP on it when they freak out. Just say, "Okay fine, I'll give you some space. But next time, don't freak out; just give me some warning when I'm getting on your nerves, and I'll back off a bit." IOW, work out a system of time-outs together.

The good thing about Fi is that you can appeal to values and ethics and try to work out a system where you can both live together. You don't necessarily have to coddle them the way Fe sometimes requires. Just acknowledge to them that you understand Se can be hard to put up with in big doses, but you're willing to work with them on a system for handling it.

My 2 cents, of course.

saying that is probably gonna make it worse for me. because it's like i'm aware of how ridic i look so it's best just to walk away and 9 out 10 times if you come back and joke with me it's usually fine. but if you say i need a time out that makes me feel like an inept human, which i already kind of do and would make me lose any respect for you.

 

[miss fortune]

Oh, okay. Yeah, INFPs overload quickly on Se. Like I said, it's our 7th function. So being around an ESxP can be like suddenly being thrown into the middle of a circus. After a while you freak out with all the clowns and lions and elephants and shit circling around and making noise.

But FWIW, I think it's okay to call the INFP on it when they freak out. Just say, "Okay fine, I'll give you some space. But next time, don't freak out; just give me some warning when I'm getting on your nerves, and I'll back off a bit." IOW, work out a system of time-outs together.

The good thing about Fi is that you can appeal to values and ethics and try to work out a system where you can both live together. You don't necessarily have to coddle them the way Fe sometimes requires. Just acknowledge to them that you understand Se can be hard to put up with in big doses, but you're willing to work with them on a system for handling it.

My 2 cents, of course.

admittedly, I annoy myself sometimes when I get going

so they won't eat me alive in my sleep in many cases if I ask for them to give me a warning before deciding to do a human impression of a pressure cooker with a stuck valve? that's good to know! I shall have to experiment upon my sibling next time I spend time with her

I want to be offended but i just can't right now.

*licks the chickenz*

 

[Tennessee Jed]

saying that is probably gonna make it worse for me. because it's like i'm aware of how ridic i look so it's best just to walk away and 9 out 10 times if you come back and joke with me it's usually fine. but if you say i need a time out that makes me feel like an inept human, which i already kind of do and would make me lose any respect for you.

Well, at the time of the initial meltdown, the ESTP may just want to leave and give the INFP some space initially. But once everyone's cooled down, I think it's reasonable to come back and talk about working out a system for time-outs or something. Otherwise, they're just going to keep running into the same problem over and over.

 

[prplchknz]

admittedly, I annoy myself sometimes when I get going

so they won't eat me alive in my sleep in many cases if I ask for them to give me a warning before deciding to do a human impression of a pressure cooker with a stuck valve? that's good to know! I shall have to experiment upon my sibling next time I spend time with her



*licks the chickenz*

*licks the whatever back* eeeee !!

 

[Tennessee Jed]

admittedly, I annoy myself sometimes when I get going

so they won't eat me alive in my sleep in many cases if I ask for them to give me a warning before deciding to do a human impression of a pressure cooker with a stuck valve? that's good to know! I shall have to experiment upon my sibling next time I spend time with her



*licks the chickenz*

Yeah, basically what I said to Prpl:

Well, at the time of the initial meltdown, the ESTP may just want to leave and give the INFP some space initially. But once everyone's cooled down, I think it's reasonable to come back and talk about working out a system for time-outs or something. Otherwise, they're just going to keep running into the same problem over and over.

Fi is about working out systems and rules for handling things (values and ethics). So point out that you two have a problem and ask if there's some way that you two can work out a system for smoother interactions.

 

[prplchknz]

Yeah, basically what I said to Prpl:



Fi is about working out systems and rules for handling things (values and ethics). So point out that you two have a problem and ask if there's some way that you two can work out a system for smoother interactions.

depends on the person and situation
[MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION] my anger is usually short and then it's over. unless you're actually egging it on but if i tell you to shut the fuck up and you do then i probably won't kill you in your sleep. the people i'd be likely to kill in their sleep are the ones that are being sneaky and manipulative, which you aren't generally so you're safe.

 

[Captain_Invincible]

Apparently, I can come across as 'condescending' when I am genuinely curious. It makes me laugh, because people who know me well, know that is how I come across like. Today in music class, I asked a genuine question: "Who listens to New Age music anymore?" because I wanted to start a conversation. My tutor said he does. Then I asked my tutor: "Do you listen to it to help you sleep?" thinking nothing more of it. I meant it genuinely, because it is soothing music, and people started getting defensive as hell over my questions, and going into a whole "Everyone has different music tastes... just listen to whatever you like etc rant..", and I know this. I even added that what I find appealing, people probably think its shit to them. (My tutor knew I was curious.)

People are too sensitive nowadays. Every little thing offends someone. People need to toughen the hell up. How are they gonna cope with genuine workplace bullying/persecution, if they can't even deal with curiosity?

 

[prplchknz]

or obviously being malicious and i have confirmation of such from a 3rd party, but even if i suspect malice i probably won't say anything until it builds up oh

 

[Kas]

Maybe I can write something because I believe I’m (although definitely less than I used to) one of the people who can react as you described.
Half of my arguments with sister was because she was doing or saying something that was making me angry and often it was unintentional.
Honestly I agree that usually the fault is on the side of sensitive people- we need to learn to look at the situation more objectively, not exaggerate. And it’s good to learn to ask about something that bothers you (because it creates solution of the problem).
It does though require a lot of working on oneself.


But it doesn’t mean that the other side can’t do anything. The worst thing one can do in these situations is pretending that nothing happened and everybody is happy or saying: "don’t be oversensitive/ so emotional/ irrational" – it’s adding fuel to the fire;. I think that the best is to leave a person alone until they calm down and then talk with them.


About what was said in discussion before. I think being oversensitive is making the person kind of paranoid. But I wouldn’t say they are not sensitive to other people, they don’t have bad intentions. They actually think (altough often irrationally) they are attacked, so what they are just trying to defend, even if it includes pushing people away. It is a terrible trait, but it hurts oversensitive people same as others. (I guess they are hit by ricochet).


Writing it, I do understand that someone can be tired of listening all of drama or making concessions, I just wanted to show different perspective.

Uh that’s a lot of words.

 

[TSDesigner]

can you please help me figure out how you think?[/I]

I don't like that you refuse to specify your MBTI type. I'm very private myself but I don't hide my type.
It's important to me to be able to see what type everyone is so I can relate their type to their posts.
I also don't like it when people say that they are one type but put a different type in their profile.

 

[TSDesigner]

People are too sensitive nowadays. Every little thing offends someone. People need to toughen the hell up. How are they gonna cope with genuine workplace bullying/persecution, if they can't even deal with curiosity?

I coped with the workplace by successfully becoming self employed. I'll never work for other people again.
I'm not as sensitive as I used to be, but I still don't want to be around annoying people. Why should I. I live my life as I please.
I create my own living conditions and don't settle for bad living conditions or bad work conditions anymore. I customize my life to be how I want it.

 

[prplchknz]

I don't like that you refuse to specify your MBTI type. I'm very private myself but I don't hide my type.
It's important to me to be able to see what type everyone is so I can relate their type to their posts.
I also don't like it when people say that they are one type but put a different type in their profile.

you can ask her, and people do treat you differently if you list your type vs do not. no need for passive agressive

 

[Poki]

for me i take most things at face value except when i don't which is also often but that's because people are slippery what i'm saying is you aren't bad so i tend to believe what you say except when i don't but i believe what you say more than i don't so the point is you are mostly trustworthy.

Lmao..hopefully that didn't offend you. I understand what you are saying, just the back and forth internal conflict is hilarious in the manner above.

 

[prplchknz]

Lmao..hopefully that didn't offend you. I understand what you are saying, just the back and forth internal conflict is hilarious in the manner above.

offended by my own post
and it wasn't internal conflict i didn't have the knot i get when i actually am internally conflicted, i just didn't want someone to come and say oh but you did that blah blah so i was covering all my bases.
that takes someone way more special than me.