The constant push and pull is a necessary "evil" to not become complacent. And INFPs don't like to "fight" or even play fight. They don't get it and don't need it either.
I have found that trying to strip things down to their basic structural intellectual elements -- and, as part of the process, leaving aside "for the moment" the social implications...both of the topics under the microscope, and the social implications of 'using the microscope' -- can drive INFPs batty. Some INFPs who are either more mature, or more experienced, are able to put up with leaving aside the social considerations involved with the topics being analyzed, _temporarily_. But to do so puts great stress upon their running gears.
It's like trying to talk to a wall from our point of view. Now I'm sure they will pick this up as me being "passive aggressive" and talking negative about them. When I am saying, they are not good enough for me, it doesn't mean that they are not good enough or bad people.
The ability to set one's own
self outside while doing the analysis (and the significant others one is in a relationship
with), is a no-go zone, like a space without air. For while the Te lives in the world of impersonal fact, and can be used as a sensitive tool for plucking specks out of others' eyes, the INFP is unable to forget the log in the INTJ's eye. And, for that matter, in their own eye, but using that fault to approach issues from the inside, from common humanity: for the INFP lives in the world of self, the world of being, not data.
That's why I feel that when I deal with an IxFP, I might as well deal with an ExFJ. The functions are in the same order. e.g. Feeling-Dominant, iNtuition-Auxiliary, except for the opposites attitudes of the functions. It's a very broad and general statement to make, because it overlooks the specifics of the functions, that makes them different. But to me, they look like two sides of the same coin.
This sounds very insightful, and like it's based on experience. But it's totally outside of anything I've dealt with. Could you give a couple of examples of the functions on either side, how they play out?
I've noticed that some say, the INFPs will say that INTJs have tertiary "Fi, that tertiary Fi means nothing. We are not aware and when we do happen to use it, it is only used when we are in our shadow (bad version of an ESFP). We only get to be our shadow, when we are angry/depressed/mad state. Then they might be able to make us more aware of our Fi. But who wants to live in their shadow state all the time? Neither does the INFP want to be the bad version of an ESTJ all the time.
That's true, *unless* the INTJ has been very introspective in general, *or* if the subject discussed with the INFP is one the INTJ has long ruminated on. In that case, the INTJ may be able to couch things in emotional- or value-laden terms...or at least not in terms of coupled differential equations
: close enough that the INFP, who is long accustomed to gaining insight by internalizing the heart-space of another, can siphon off true meaning from it. And if the INTJ can trust enough to show their tertiary Fi in the raw, virgin Fi, "untrammeled by human hands" ...well, for the INFP, it can be like drinking raw nectar. But that has its own risks for the INTJ, when the INFP happens to get bored, or gets distracted by a passing squirrel, and disappears without bothering to close the INTJ's cell wall first, *or* the INTJ hits an undisclosed INFP values land-mine and the INFP goes into rabid-cat mode, blurting out terrible truths, reducing the insides of the INTJ to quivering ribbons.
(I'm sure the INFPs have their own perspective on the above; and what's more, have their own catalogue of the INTJ's sins. The terrible sterile aridity of the INTJ exterior must be like suffocation or something, and I'll bet day-to-day *living* with the INTJ, who says "I love you" once and thinks that settles matters for the next thirty years, together with the endless pursuit of TRUTH to the umpteenth decimal place, regardless of its effect on harmony and affirmation, can be like being caught in the garbage compactor on the Death Star in Star Wars...)
[Note to any INFPs lurking on this thread: did I get that last paragraph close enough?]
I personally think INTJs who are irrational (introverted iNuition) dominants, need to pair up with other irrational (Se/i or Ne/i) dominants.
Sure it can work between an INTJ and INFP, if they are both aware that things will not work out the same way the Ne-dominant will work out with an Ni-dominant and also the Fi-dominant (rational) with the Fe-dominant (rational).
meh
So what *you're* saying, chubber (frantically returning to Te mode for air!) is that that the INTJ is like pi (infinite precision, but still irrational despite all the numbers floating around), and the
INFP is imaginary (requiring contour integration to handle their poles in the complex plane).
(snip)
In a purely rational world, this is a fool-proof methodology – but in reality, it ignores significant details that INTJs are likely to dismiss prematurely, such as human nature.
Rub it in, why don't you?
Sentiment, tradition, and emotion are INTJs' Achilles Heel. Social standards like chivalry are viewed by INTJs as silly, even demeaning. The problem is, these standards have developed as a means of smoothing introductions and developing rapport, of managing expectations, the basis of personal relationships. INTJs' propensity for frank honesty in word and action tends to violate this social contract, making dating especially difficult for them.
As they mature, INTJs will come to recognize these factors as relevant, incorporating pace and emotional availability into their plans. But the meantime can be dangerous, especially for more Turbulent INTJs – if they are shot down too many times they may come to the conclusion that everyone else is simply too irrational, or simply beneath them intellectually. If cynicism takes hold, INTJs may end up falling into the trap of intentionally displaying intellectual arrogance, making solitude their choice rather than happenstance.
I personally have come to hold, that this is because many INTJs are bewildered by the complex give-and-take of changing situations and half-truths depending on the timing, situation, and audience; and in being blunt and too honest, are merely offering that clarity which they long for from others. But most other people don't *want* their inner parts exposed, cleaned, polished, re-aligned, and oiled: especially not in public. (WTF are you NUTS?!!) Many others would rather have the issue hinted at from one or two questions away, and vague validations given (as Billy Joel sang in
Piano Man,
"...they're sharing a drink they call loneliness, but it's better than drinking alone."
The INFP is somehow deft enough to touch on others' internals in an non-threatening way, temporarily metamorphosize *into* the other person, and somehow lead them out of the quicksand one step at a time, or absorb the pain. (see the Star Trek episode
The Empath; see also "magical healing rays"...)
Am I allowed to say I am in awe?
INTJs have no problem walking away from a relationship and moving on very quickly. People aren't our thing, we give up on people pretty quickly, but not the same when it comes to analytical technical challenge. That's (people) the INFP's strength.
Aye, that's true. But INFPs can doorslam too -- the difference is the INFP can feel every drop and throb of the pain (their own and the slam-ee), and yet derive nourishment from that pain in the long term
("...then he remembers all this, and boils it inside him and makes it into poems and wisdom.") <-- Egads! That almost sounded like a description of Bukowski.
