Star Trek vs. Star Wars

[Bush]

Solo did alright for himself, though.

True, true. Nobody gives a damn about Luke anyway.

And, hey, it seems like Solo's still pretty badass in his return appearance. Kirk got killed by a bridge in his return appearance.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I have an anecdote, if anyone wants to hear it. One time I was at a party and someone vomited on my shoes (this is related to Star Trek, don't worry) and I said, "I'd much rather be watching Star Trek" and some random guy I'd been talking to said "I LOVE STAR TREK CAN I WATCH IT WITH YOU?!" So we went back to my dorm and I put Star Trek in and pulled out a chair for him and sat on my bed and he seemed really put out but I couldn't figure out why, because we were watching Amok Time, which is the best episode. So then the episode ended and he left and I was like, good riddance, and then a year later I realised he hadn't really wanted to watch Star Trek.

I have a similar story, but with MST3K. One of my many missed opportunities in college.

 

[Kas]

I haven't heard much about new movie for now(although I'm looking forward). I've only watched 2min teaser which was mostly about nothing, but Han Solo saing at the end "We're home" was adorable...

 

[93JC]

I was a fan of both Star Trek and Star Wars when I was growing up, although I was probably a bigger fan of Trek in retrospect.

Nowadays Star Wars is dead to me. I'll admit I cracked a huge grin when I saw the trailer for the new film coming out later this year, and I'll probably see it, but my expectations are very, very low. The 'prequel' trilogy was hot garbage and completely soured me on the brand itself.

Star Trek is also kinda, sorta dead to me too. Maybe it's just my tastes and interests having changed as I've aged but it doesn't capture my attention much anymore. I've seen both of the 'reboot' films and they were merely okay to me. Nowhere near as bad as the Star Wars films but not great. Star Trek Into Darkness was so completely 'meh' (Really? Another rehash of The Wrath of Khan? As if Nemesis wasn't mediocre enough?) I've lost interest in the next movie. (I did get a chance to see The Wrath of Khan on a big screen a couple years back; it was awesome.)

The Star Trek TV shows, particularly TNG and DS9, were some of my all-time favourites. I still remember a lot of them fondly.

"In the Pale Moonlight" is probably my favorite DS9 episode. God, I love that scoundrel Garak.

I think that's the next episode. I didn't realize it was a Garak episode, so I will enjoy it quite a bit, seeing as how I do enjoy Garak.

Garak was one of the best Star Trek characters ever written. So many quotable lines.

BASHIR: "Of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?"
GARAK: "My dear Doctor, they're all true."
BASHIR: "Even the lies?"
GARAK: "Especially the lies."

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION], what would you pick? Are you still into Star Trek?

 

[Coriolis]

[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION], what would you pick? Are you still into Star Trek?

Star Trek, no question at all. I could never get into Star Wars, and have seen only the first 3 original films.

I read a comparison of the two somewhere that identified a key difference that may be responsible for my choice. Star Trek is about the future while Star Wars, fantasy world and advanced technology notwithstanding, is about the past. "Long, long ago in a galaxy far away . . . ". It is a legend, over and done with, and removed from us in time and space. Star Trek, however, shows us the future - in some respects our future. As such I find it much more uplifting, less constrained, more open-ended. I don't care much for the most recent few movies, but everything through Voyager was good.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Star Wars, however, shows us the future - in some respects our future. As such I find it much more uplifting, less constrained, more open-ended. I don't care much for the most recent few movies, but everything through Voyager was good.

I'm assuming you meant Star Trek.

I like the progressive ideals and attitude towards technology of Star Trek ... however, I love the way Star Wars celebrates rebellion and conflict with previous generations. I think it shows, for men, anyway, good ways to live as an individual.

There's something to be said for the way Luke deals with Vader, but maybe that's just because I'd like to connect with my dad on a meaningful level, but I find it really difficult.

I tend to approach life more like Han Solo than Luke, though.

 

[Coriolis]

I like the progressive ideals and attitude towards technology of Star Trek ... however, I love the way Star Wars celebrates rebellion and conflict with previous generations. I think it shows, for men, anyway, good ways to live as an individual.

There's something to be said for the way Luke deals with Vader, but maybe that's just because I'd like to connect with my dad on a meaningful level, but I find it really difficult.

Yes, many aspects of Star Wars reflect fundamental archetypes, like the father/son relationship. This is part of what makes it feel like a legend or a myth. Star Trek has rebellion, also, but often on a more personal level. And it does have better examples for women. I think gender is that important when reflecting "good ways to live as an individual", but it is hard for some people to identify when the characters don't look like them.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Yes, many aspects of Star Wars reflect fundamental archetypes, like the father/son relationship. This is part of what makes it feel like a legend or a myth. Star Trek has rebellion, also, but often on a more personal level. And it does have better examples for women. I think gender is that important when reflecting "good ways to live as an individual", but it is hard for some people to identify when the characters don't look like them.

I think I'm not interested in making this another discussion about feminism.

I think it would be a very poor choice for me to get into an argument with you about this.

Furthermore, when it comes to women, Firefly and BSG have both of them beat.

 

[Coriolis]

I think I'm not interested in making this another discussion about feminism.

I think that would be a very poor choice for me to get into an argument with you about this.

Furthermore, when it comes to women, Firefly and BSG have both of them beat.

Do you mean another discussion about one more sphere of life where women are underrepresented and shown mostly in secondary, supporting roles? I have no problem deriving inspiration from male characters, and even identifying with them. For me it is about the character - who they are, how they think and act, what motivates them - not their gender. (Of course if there were more and better female characters, I might identify with some of them as well.) The skewed demographics of movies and TV shows (which has improved considerably) is almost a separate issue. There should be a good variety for everyone to see.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Do you mean another discussion about one more sphere of life where women are underrepresented and shown mostly in secondary, supporting roles? I have no problem deriving inspiration from male characters, and even identifying with them. For me it is about the character - who they are, how they think and act, what motivates them - not their gender. (Of course if there were more and better female characters, I might identify with some of them as well.) The skewed demographics of movies and TV shows (which has improved considerably) is almost a separate issue. There should be a good variety for everyone to see.

I think I'm just sick of people talking about feminist issues as though they are the only ones that matter.

 

[Passacaglia]

Star Wars, mostly because ST almost can't have a series or movie without time travel wankery involved.

Though honestly, I'm not a Fan with a capital F of either one.

IMO, a lot of fan communities have the same attitude; they're usually always critical of the later, recent things, whether it's good or not. The basic attitude is that it's different from what I liked before, so it's bad. That's why I'm not a perfect fit, either.

Word.

DS9 is my favorite ST series because it's the most morally gray of them; though like every ST series, there are many many episodes that I skipped despite having easy access to them all. I like ST movies much more than the series.

The Star Wars prequels were flawed and inferior to the originals, but I appreciate the story they were trying to tell (they just didn't do a good job of it.) They managed to have a few good scenes and ideas, as it was.

Well said. The story's execution was terrible; but hey, great special effects, dynamic battle scenes, and Natalie Portman in costume porn? I don't regret watching them that one time.

 

[Coriolis]

I think I'm just sick of people talking about feminist issues as though they are the only ones that matter.

Issues related to differences in the treatment of men vs. women affect everyone on the planet, so they are rather hard to avoid.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

DS9 is my favorite ST series because it's the most morally gray of them; though like every ST series, there are many many episodes that I skipped despite having easy access to them all. I like ST movies much more than the series.

Good job avoiding the thread derail.

I liked Deep Space 9 the best for raising issues about how it's easy to be a saint in paradise, for instance.

 

[JocktheMotie]

For someone that's only seen the new movies, where should I start? DS9?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Issues related to differences in the treatment of men vs. women affect everyone on the planet, so they are rather hard to avoid.

What does it have to do with Star Wars or Star Trek? It looks like a derail, to me.

It's getting to the point where I'd like to have a Godwin's law type thing created for feminism.

 

[Totenkindly]

Those are good points. Also, I should mention that the Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic games are amazing. And that the characters can turn good or evil, depending on how you play and how much influence you have on them.

Yeah, those are my favorite games possibly of all time, and it's why I pick the world of Star Wars over Star Trek in general (although Lucas' own stories in his own world probably aren't quite as great as a few of the stories from the Star Trek world).

Maybe that's a better way to say it. I think in general Star Wars had more flavor and interesting world aspects to me, but Star Trek had some better storylines... until of course you look at the SWKOTOR line. I only finished a few of the class stories in the MMO SWTOR (which is kind of SWKOTOR 3), but it was the coolest thing ever and better than the movies... Nothing beat being a Sith marauder wielding two sabers and managing to survive the plots of everyone trying to destroy me as I rose through the chain (and a few masters) and managed to subvert the hope of the Jedi to being my thrall. Bwa ha ha.

I was a big TNG nut starting in college when it came out, then soured on it because it was all a bit too pat and smug to me in hindsight even though I watched the entire run and there are a few episodes that stand out (like The Inner Light or the whole Worf/Duras plotline). Ensign Ro was a breath of fresh air.

DSN is probably the best Trek series I never watched after a season and desperately need to.

I struggled through a season of Voyager and quit, and never bothered with Enterprise.

I've actually been going back and watching some of the episodes of old Trek, of which there are some decent ones amid some lousy ones. (My eldest kid is also really getting into it.) I've probably seen them all, but years and years ago... I read all the James Blish book adaptations (there were four books at the library when I was growing up, with the episodes all in story form, which I avidly read).

 

[Coriolis]

What does it have to do with Star Wars or Star Trek? It looks like a derail, to me.

You asked what my preference was between the two series. Part of my comparative evaluation includes how women are represented. This is not a significant factor in why I prefer the one, but is an observable difference between the two series.

 

[Luke O]

What about upcoming stuff, though? JJ Abrams is in charge of both (he IS the guy who got the cake and ate it) and while I do favour Star Trek, just seeing the crashed Star Destroyer as a backdrop in the second teaser cemented in my very mind that I may be very blown away by the new film. Then again, it may just turn out again to be CGI swordfighting and Jim Henson.

The Star Wars expanded universe is interesting though (only because there had to be an expanded universe, to add more content?), I played Dark Forces (if they draw upon this for Rebel One, I would be impressed, especially if they namecheck Kyle Katarn) and the first two KOTOR games and I liked being immersed in that way. Is there only so far you can go with the Star Wars theme though, before you end up repeating yourself?

 

[Cygnus]

They're not remotely parallel.




Any attempts to compare them would be futile.

Heh heh.....futile.