ENFP :- A brief owners manual.

[targobelle]

Xander I'm sorry to say that you're technique SUCKS! There's no way that could possibly work as there is too much room for error. Too much room for the enfp to look for the ulterior motive. Evidentially that is exactly how my husband tries to deal with me and um it's not working.....

 

[mooshenh]

My son is ENFP. He's highly intelligent, and loves hearing the truth. As an intuitive he values it and we have fun with it.

In those times when he is emotional and frustration takes a hold, the best I can do is to empathize with him. As long as his feelings are validated this seems to be the best solution at the time. This keeps his attitude toward me positive. Later when his mood is bright, I can slip in some common sense and preach a little about his lack of S. We've made progress this way.

I would think looking down on his feelings and trying to fix his problems would piss him off. He has a keen eye that way.

 

[Xander]

The advice admittedly was phrased for me to understand and I'm not exactly the best person at addressing multiple people each with their own frame of reference. As such either you can look for why I think it's any good or rip it a new one.
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Jennifer, your points are similar to mine in essence. Esp 1&2.
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Dom, the reason I suddenly rethought about this all was the conversation I just had with you over texts, PMs and the phone. You didn't seem upset. The difference probably being that I posted here about the system. The system is merely my method, you were the subject and your well-being the focus. I believe that when we argue I'm usually defending/ bludgeoning with a thing without maintaining focus on the goal which is half the time making you happy.
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IOW I take the criticism on board but I see no particular flaw being pointed at which cannot be quite adequately set at the feet of me being relatively without practise at "selling" ideas to groups of people.
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Oh and Targo, the whole suspicion thing I've found has more to do with the how than the what of the address. How I'm putting it up here, in black and white, only makes it feel even more difficult to include the appropriate level of detail which would show that this is a system of guidelines which should be applied in complete context to the person/ subject. Totally lose/ change one if that particular person appears to warrant it.

I'm no rules lawyer. These are context sensitive guidelines. Kinda Charcoal lines on a dark grey background Seen in the right light their obvious but looked at head on their damn near invisible.

 

[Xander]

Oh and ref me and Dom. We engage in tag ass kicking regularly. Very helpful. Kinda like a group hug but with weapons.

 

[mooshenh]

I suppose empathy isn't even necessary. In the heat of the moment, simply acknowledging their feelings and leaving it at that will do wonders.

 

[Xander]

I suppose empathy isn't even necessary. In the heat of the moment, simply acknowledging their feelings and leaving it at that will do wonders.

True empathy can be quashed with "how can you possibly know how I'm feeling" or some such. In fact often I find that simply recognising the emotion is better than trying to reach some kind of understanding because of this.

 

[wildcat]

I find this type most difficult to deal with. They seem to have as many strands of thinking/ feeling going on as I do but with an orchestra of values and supposed tos attached to it all. I feel like I'm tweaking the strands of a spiders web when I speak to them and try to be of help or be friendly. Honestly I tend to end up treating them like paranoid little buggers even though I know they are about the nicest people on the planet!

Anyhow I had a discussion with my father one day on how to deal with an ENFP with a problem. I'll try to relay.

#1 What?
#2 So what?
#3 What now?


#1 - Establish what is wrong.
#2 - Establish why this is a problem.
#3 - Ask them what they intend to do about it.

Apparently though if the circle does not work and all suggested solutions (step #3) are batted away then there is a step #3a which goes something like "well shut up about it then", based on the theory that on rare occasions an ENFP will rant and rave to vent but will end up taking everyone else with them into this emotional turmoil. Only ever done unwittingly (in my personal experience) it is still destructive.

Note :-
I realise that any ENFP reading this is liable never to talk to me again but I hope it's helpful none the less. Comments welcome.

The ENFP does not have a problem.

The male ISTJ in her bank has got the problem.

1 What is wrong? Her bank is what is wrong.

2 Why is it a problem?
It is a problem because the male ISTJ sits in the bank.

3 I do not see he intends to do a thing.

 

[Xander]

The ENFP does not have a problem.

The male ISTJ in her bank has got the problem.

1 What is wrong? Her bank is what is wrong.

2 Why is it a problem?
It is a problem because the male ISTJ sits in the bank.

3 I do not see he intends to do a thing.

Okay who laced the pussy cats milk with hallucinogenics?

 

[Totenkindly]

Okay who laced the pussy cats milk with hallucinogenics?

Where did the ISTJ come from?

And why are we in a bank?

 

[wildcat]

I do not know who laced the milk. How did the ISTJ make his appearance? Why are we in a bank?

If I remember correctly Xander said she has a problem. The ENFP.

The ISTJs work mostly in the army and the police but they have not much headway there becouse the more aggressive ESTJs override them.

In the bank the ESTJs are not found that often. Therefore the ISTJs are the ones who make the decisions in the bank.

They should take the credit card away from the clients who exceed their accounts every month. The EFPs.

But they are dazzled by the latter. They believe what they hear. They want to believe.
They run into a difficulty in the bank. They have a family.
It is not easy to find a decent job these days.

 

[laughing dolphin]

I do not know who laced the milk. How did the ISTJ make his appearance? Why are we in a bank?

If I remember correctly Xander said she has a problem. The ENFP.

The ISTJs work mostly in the army and the police but they have not much headway there becouse the more aggressive ESTJs override them.

In the bank the ESTJs are not found that often. Therefore the ISTJs are the ones who make the decisions in the bank.

They should take the credit card away from the clients who exceed their accounts every month. The EFPs.

But they are dazzled by the latter. They believe what they hear. They want to believe.
They run into a difficulty in the bank. They have a family.
It is not easy to find a decent job these days.

Sooooo...your hypothetical problem for the ENFP involves her habit of consistantly overdrawing her bank account (because that's what ENPs do?!) and the person who works in the bank is an ISTJ (because ISTJs want to be in the army or police but the ESTJs also drawn to those professions are too overbearing so the next best thing is a bank??) and the ISTJ is utterly charmed by the ENFP...and...well, I give up. In other words,

 

[wildcat]

Sooooo...your hypothetical problem for the ENFP involves her habit of consistantly overdrawing her bank account (because that's what ENPs do?!) and the person who works in the bank is an ISTJ (because ISTJs want to be in the army or police but the ESTJs also drawn to those professions are too overbearing so the next best thing is a bank??) and the ISTJ is utterly charmed by the ENFP...and...well, I give up. In other words,

Yes, Sir. You have a good heart.
Those poor ISTJs.. queueing in the unemployment bureaus.. their agony also makes my heart ache. Poor lads.

 

[substitute]

My brother and daughter are both ENFP's, and I relate very much to this about both of them:

based on the theory that on rare occasions an ENFP will rant and rave to vent but will end up taking everyone else with them into this emotional turmoil. Only ever done unwittingly (in my personal experience) it is still destructive.

However, establishing what's wrong and why is a lot easier said than done, because they (especially my daughter) seem to want me to believe that EVERYTHING is wrong, and they have NO IDEA why, and there's NOTHING you can do about it, it's all hopeless! And you get the foot stamping and the tears, and I find myself unable to know what to do with a person who seems convinced that the sky will fall on her head and her life will be over, if she doesn't give a pretzel to the cat RIGHT NOW

The term 'drama queen' comes to mind...

 

[targobelle]

Substitute I shouldn't laugh but I had to. And I laugh b/c I understand silly things is when I see my daughter do it I am infuriated mostly b/ I see myself in her... lol....

 

[chatoyer]

alert: tangent!

Since ENxPs are huge tangent hoppers, I feel ok diverting the discussion......I promise it's related to the overall topic as to the owner/user manual!!

Do not question an ENFP's motive......I get REALLY upset when I flake out on something, usually due to being spread socially thin or poor Se function, then feel guilty about it, & the person questions my motive. I can't tell you how many times I've said, "but I didn't mean to!/that wasn't my intention!"

Now that I'm older -- I'm better about seeing the consequences of my flakiness & how my unreliability at times affects other people, & it doesn't matter what my motive was, they had to deal with the fall-out because of my failure.

We put so much guilt on ourselves when we do these sorts of things, that sometimes it's hard to even talk about with the other person, that the other person doesn't need to do more than mention it.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

Very much agree with the above post.

This is also the reason why ENFPs may have a hard time finding internal peace.

Their Fi urges them to be sincere, yet when Ne gets erratic, they may lose control over their external actions, and in effect fail to live up to their own standards.

Others questioning their character will only exacerbate the wound they have incurred from self-diatribe.

But again, it may be difficult to blame the skeptic because off balance ENFPs often promise to play a bigger game then they can play and tend to have a great deal of contradictions in their behavior. The latter must drive the strong thinking types crazy..as they relate to people based on what they think of them...not how they feel about them...yet if the unhealthy ENFP has so many contradictions in their behavior because of their wild Extroverted Intuition..they just wont know what to think of them..and this will doubtlessly frustrate them to no end...

 

[Dom]

We put so much guilt on ourselves when we do these sorts of things, that sometimes it's hard to even talk about with the other person, that the other person doesn't need to do more than mention it.

word.

 

[Xander]

Okay I finally realised where the ISTJ comes from... Tangent and a half of this thread goes to Mr Wildcat for introducing financial psychology

As for this self recrimination reflex and promising the world oblivious (or in denial) of ability to deliver problem.... how do "balanced" ENFPs do it? Surely this is not something which is just there and nothing can be done about it, that'd be well... a bugger.

I'd think that it could be similar to some of the deeper problems with other types, just played out as only ENFPs seem able to do with more colours than an HDTV and more artistic licence than a cubist convention. I'm just kinda hoping that this stumbling block is alleviated somehow. Present theories run that ENFPs would learn best from INFJs and should aim to learn some ISTJ (yes Dom THAT again just think how useful Matt's ability to recall minutia from years ago would be to a historian!! Just leave the accident prone nature and lack of social skills okay )

So anyway, yes the theory in the OP does rely on being able to get answers in specific and in that regard is quite a T response. However, as was pointed out to me, it is often at these points when someone should step in and assist in objectifying (is that a word?) the situation. I have similar problems when everything is confusing somedays or when I can't face a large task or something. That's when some bright spark comes in and sets out step one, step two and so on. I don't beat them over the head whilst yelling "I'M A P. YOU SUCK!!!" even though sometimes it comes close. As such I'm thinking of this approach as more a counter to the ENFPs emotional reaction and withdrawl, not a parallel.

I have been beaten over the head before for this kind of thinking but I've seen time and time again that at tome point the problem needs to be solved and not just sympathised with. As to when this point arrives is a mystery to me most days. Oh and if the problem doesn't want solving (ie the person is somehow protective of having it) then that's when you say "STFU and quit dragging me down with yer whinging!" (not like that but that's the general thrust).

As a last point (N kicking in to a higher gear) I'd like to point out that this thread is not directed at anyone in particular and nor is it about anyone in particular. Just incase I'm teasing anyone's paranoia.

 

[cafe]

Maybe Ts that are ranting want advice, I dunno. I don't think Fs generally do. Unless they ask, but maybe not even then. Fs, I think, want to bleed off some of the emotion so they can think clearly themselves (they don't need you to think for them), to hear themselves out so they know what they are thinking and feeling and it helps to have someone to listen because then it doesn't feel so much like you are talking to yourself and you can maybe believe that someone cares about what you're feeling, or for you to was the dang dishes.

Once they have vented, sometimes it's okay to brainstorm with them.

But honestly, if there is anything more annoying than for some idiot to try to solve your problems for you when you are trying to vent, I don't know what it would be. God, how patronizing can you get??

 

[targobelle]

Xander ~ in reading your last response I can't help but get the feeling that you're talking specifically to INTP's b/c there is so much 'information' in that post that it's hard to wade through it all. Hard to not look at it personally and hard to bite your tongue and move forward. It was a difficult read is what I am saying.