Christianity

[OptoGypsy]

ah, but there is nothing wrong with my example of prayer being answered and i think you know it. so, you try to manufacture problems in it because you just don't want to believe. i think on some level you probably even know that but you are not honest enough to admit it. there is nothing new under the sun. people didn't believe jesus when he did miracles right in front of him and even when he raised the dead. if you must know a big part of the conference was all about helping the poor in the developing world. yeah, but my friend was lying, right.

It's called the laws of probability half of your prayers will be answered and the other half will be a "God knows best." In my opinion a Christian asking for something from God is hedonistic and stupid in that who are you to ask a God for something and whatever happens in life will happen regardless if you pray so the right type of prayer will be one of thanking him or the Lords prayer since it will be all done in Gods divine plan.

i.e Lord I pray that you strike me with lightening, now I may see it that he didn't answer my prayer because he isn't there or he is to afraid or I can see it as simply not being a part of his divine plan.

 

[Hive]

Yup and the Pentecostal church may be the best (in Christianity) simply for the ecstasy/Emotional feeling/presence and you don't even need a lawyer unlike the catholic church @<a href="http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/members/18819.html" target="_blank">five sounds</a> my parents Church lives by your ideals of what the Church should look like the vision is awesome in practice

Unfortunately, the closest we got to ecstacy was a halfhearted sing-along with the band on stage.

I was expecting something more rock n' roll.

 

[OptoGypsy]

Unfortunately, the closest we got to ecstacy was a halfhearted sing-along with the band on stage.

I was expecting something more rock n' roll.

That was dreary, skillet or Vivaldi would've been good for background music. What's up with all of the rituals?

 

[Mole]

There was only one Christian, and he died on the cross

-Nietzsche

Who is Mole to gainsay Nietzsche? But Jesus was born and died a Jew. Jesus was not a Christian for it was the followers of Jesus who created Christianity.

 

[Mole]

Jesus taught that the last shall be first and the first shall be last. This message is rejected by the largest economy in the world, with the largest miltary by far, with enough nuclear missles to destroy the world, with an ethos of self promotion.

Remember Jesus taught the first shall be last in the Kingdom of God.

 

[Ivy]

I still think so. Thousands and thousands of people pray for things every day. Of course circumstances will align making it look like some of them were answered. But what about all of those that weren't? If you disregard all of those, you're just resorting to confirmation bias.

Yes. I'm willing to bet most everyone who has died of cancer has prayed for a miracle. I certainly prayed for one, as did everyone in my family, when my sister was sick. She died anyway. I'm sorry, but I just can't get on board for prayer being like a Christmas list, where if you're on the nice list you get what you ask for but if you don't get what you asked for you must be on the naughty list.

 

[wildflower]

It's called the laws of probability half of your prayers will be answered and the other half will be a "God knows best."

not really. it's about whether your prayers are in accordance with God's will for your life. eta: well, that's one reason. it's a complex subject as to why not everyone's prayers get answered but probability has nothing to do with it. the best book i've read on the question of why people suffer is by a liberation theologist. it's called On Job: God-talk and the suffering of the innocent. no one has all the answers in this life though but there are some helpful writings that can shed a little light.

this is great example of a prayer not in accordance with God's will

i.e Lord I pray that you strike me with lightening, now I may see it that he didn't answer my prayer because he isn't there or he is to afraid or I can see it as simply not being a part of his divine plan.

In my opinion a Christian asking for something from God is hedonistic and stupid in that who are you to ask a God for something and whatever happens in life will happen regardless if you pray so the right type of prayer will be one of thanking him or the Lords prayer since it will be all done in Gods divine plan.

so, remember what i was saying about relying on your own knowledge or relying on what God's knowledge tells us? what you're saying completely conflicts with what scripture teaches. first, there are many different types of prayer. some examples are adoration, confession, thanksgiving & supplication which can be abbreviated ACTS to remember easily. or, as a friend of mine joked we really should confess first so it's CATS. again, try to stay away from either/or thinking. still don't believe me well here it is:

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. Matthew 7:7-12


also, the vast majority of christians do not believe in a deterministic view. only a very small minority in the church believe that God has everything all planned out and determined ahead of time. they are usually referred to as calvinists. personally, i think their theology is bunk and that they do a whole lot of damage by what they teach. unfortunately, they are very vocal and can be horribly rude. i just ignore them altogether. the vast majority of christians do believe we have free will in much of our lives and yet some things are in fact predetermined by God. so, again, it's a both/and and not an either/or. so, we not only have God directly telling us in scripture to pray and ask for things we also have the vast majority of christians believing that our prayers do affect things. all types of prayers.

Who is Mole to gainsay Nietzsche? But Jesus was born and died a Jew. Jesus was not a Christian for it was the followers of Jesus who created Christianity.

yup. jesus was not a christian but the christ, the jewish messiah.

with that i will leave you all since i am quite skeptical anyone here seriously cares to learn a thing about what it means to follow jesus. ciao.

 

[prplchknz]

I have a theory as to why people think prayer works. they're not going off the oh I want a piece of candy let me pray for it and it will drop in my lap scenerio. They pray for the piece of candy and go on with their lives then they pass some candy and think "Oh my prayers have been answered" and the also subscribe to the "god has a plan" thing and so if it doesn't get answered. like someone not dying they think well it would've disrupted his plan. so basically it doesn't matter if it actually works or not. because there's a plan.

another theory is if you're praying for something having to do with outlook or something similar you are actually changing your frame of mind and not god.

 

[OptoGypsy]

I have a theory as to why people think prayer works. they're not going off the oh I want a piece of candy let me pray for it and it will drop in my lap scenerio. They pray for the piece of candy and go on with their lives then they pass some candy and think "Oh my prayers have been answered" and the also subscribe to the "god has a plan" thing and so if it doesn't get answered. like someone not dying they think well it would've disrupted his plan. so basically it doesn't matter if it actually works or not. because there's a plan.

another theory is if you're praying for something having to do with outlook or something similar you are actually changing your frame of mind and not god.

You nailed it

 

[Mole]

jesus was not a christian but the christ, the jewish messiah.

The test of the Jewish Messiah in Judaism was whether he saved the Jews from the Romans. Jesus signally failed to save the Jews from the Romans, so, according to Judaism, he was a false Jewish Messiah.

This presented a theological problem for the Christians who turned Jesus the Jew into the Risen Christ, deified for the Romans.

It was a successful theological solution as Constantine and the whole of Rome converted to Christianity.

And as a corollary it was necessary to blame the Jews for the deicide of Christ, and absolve the Romans for his torture and execution as a Jewish Zealot.

 

[Rasofy]

 

[yeghor]

Everyone needs something to believe in so as not to self-destruct.

 

[yeghor]

Everyone needs something to believe in so as to be able to keep on moving.

 

[five sounds]

Jesus taught that the last shall be first and the first shall be last. This message is rejected by the largest economy in the world, with the largest miltary by far, with enough nuclear missles to destroy the world, with an ethos of self promotion.

Remember Jesus taught the first shall be last in the Kingdom of God.

mooole, my man.

 

[Ivy]

Some posts moved to the OT thread in the graveyard.

 

[Mole]

Everyone needs something to believe in so as to be able to keep on moving.

Another way of putting it is meaning depends on context.

As children we take our context for granted, but as we grow up we start to be curious about our given context.

The process of growing up can be stunted by being forbidden to explore context, such as being forbidden to question a sacred text.

Or the process of growing up can be stunted by context remaining invisible, such as media, like manuscript, print, TV, theatre, or movies, remaining invisible and so taken for granted.

So we can say that growing up means stepping outside the taken for granted whether it is sacred texts or media.

 

[grey_beard]

Yes. I'm willing to bet most everyone who has died of cancer has prayed for a miracle. I certainly prayed for one, as did everyone in my family, when my sister was sick. She died anyway. I'm sorry, but I just can't get on board for prayer being like a Christmas list, where if you're on the nice list you get what you ask for but if you don't get what you asked for you must be on the naughty list.

Concur. From Matthew 26:

39Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”
40Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Couldn’t you men keep watch with me for one hour?” he asked Peter. 41“Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
42He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”

...and I think we all know what happened next.

 

[grey_beard]

Another way of putting it is meaning depends on context.

As children we take our context for granted, but as we grow up we start to be curious about our given context.

The process of growing up can be stunted by being forbidden to explore context, such as being forbidden to question a sacred text.

Or the process of growing up can be stunted by context remaining invisible, such as media, like manuscript, print, TV, theatre, or movies, remaining invisible and so taken for granted.

So we can say that growing up means stepping outside the taken for granted whether it is sacred texts or media.

There's room for both, each in its proper time.

Jesus said "Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”

But St. Paul said, "When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things."

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Hi I'm seriously trying to consider the existence of God but it just doesn't seem plausible. What evidence do we have outside of the Bible or any Religious text that a God exists? How did you rationalize the existence of God? Is the only argument you have that a God exists is the leap of faith, is faith your only trump card?

NONE

 

[Ivy]

NONE

Right. For that matter, what evidence do we have INSIDE of the Bible or any Religious text that a God exists? NONE. This will never be solved. That's why it's called faith. Some people have it, some people don't- and I'm not convinced that we have much choice in the matter of whether we have it or not.