L
LadyLazarus
Guest
Edit: The poll has been fixed(thanks mods) so 6w7 is an option now.
I know I've already gone through this once, but that was when I was very new, I'd like to revisit this now that I have been here for a while, granted I still know none of you very well at all, but at least I know of you and vice versa, now. I hate to ask, as I am aware that this will get very very confusing because everyone is most likely going to say something different, regardless; I'm curious as to see how it will go this time around.
It seems I'm still a weird middle ground between e4 and e6, after all this time, I still see a lot of me in both of their intimate subtypes. I feel this may be because my second fix may be very potent, and on almost equal footing with my core type(just like being balanced on my top two functions...ugh why am I so close on so many things.
)
Anyway, I've also decided to include the other types just in case someone thinks I am something entirely different, which I doubt I am but I suppose it would be wise to take all options into consideration, within reason of course. However, I will mention that I am now certain that I am this tritype, so it's really either 4 or 6, as I am sure I could never be a core 8.
I've decided the best way to go about this is to highlight the parts of each intimate subtype which I relate to.(I included two 6 descriptions because they where both really short for some reason.)
Sexual 6 - Seeking Intimacy/Intensity
The Intimate Four
Suffering by Comparison
Outside of the subtypes; I very much relate to these parts of the 6w7 description:
In regards to 4w3 I relate to this:
All help and opinions are appreciated.
I know I've already gone through this once, but that was when I was very new, I'd like to revisit this now that I have been here for a while, granted I still know none of you very well at all, but at least I know of you and vice versa, now. I hate to ask, as I am aware that this will get very very confusing because everyone is most likely going to say something different, regardless; I'm curious as to see how it will go this time around.
It seems I'm still a weird middle ground between e4 and e6, after all this time, I still see a lot of me in both of their intimate subtypes. I feel this may be because my second fix may be very potent, and on almost equal footing with my core type(just like being balanced on my top two functions...ugh why am I so close on so many things.
)Anyway, I've also decided to include the other types just in case someone thinks I am something entirely different, which I doubt I am but I suppose it would be wise to take all options into consideration, within reason of course. However, I will mention that I am now certain that I am this tritype, so it's really either 4 or 6, as I am sure I could never be a core 8.
I've decided the best way to go about this is to highlight the parts of each intimate subtype which I relate to.(I included two 6 descriptions because they where both really short for some reason.)
Sexual 6 - Seeking Intimacy/Intensity
Udit Patel "Feisty Vulnerability (Ichazo's "Strength and Beauty")"
Sexual Sixes get their sense of security primarily from their emotional bond with a significant other. But they also have many doubts, both about their own ability to have a suitable mate and about the mate's ability or willingness to really be there for them. Sexual Sixes often manifest a tension between their gender roles: they are both masculine and feminine, "macho" and coquettish. Moreover, Sexual Six women have a tough, tomboy side to them but still come across as feminine. Similarly, the men of this Variant display a sensitivity and vulnerability while being essentially masculine. Sexual Sixes also tend to be emotionally intense, like Eights and Fours. Part of this comes from anxiety about their ability to keep a strong, capable partner. Thus, Sexual Sixes try to cultivate their masculine or feminine attributes in order to find a good partner and, later, to remain appealing to this person. Often, they feel most comfortable relating to members of the opposite sex and may feel competitive with the same sex. They also tend to test their significant others to see if they are strong enough and to make sure that they are really committed to the relationship. When more stressed, Sexual Sixes can be emotionally volatile, with their feelings about people changing strongly and suddenly. They fall into suspiciousness about their partner and can be quite jealous, while at the same time feeling a strong need to "prove" their desirability.
Sixes with this subtype tend to act strong or seductive when insecure. They are much more likely to be counterphobic, especially the men. May seem like Eights, take risks, talk tough. Act powerful and in control at the times when they feel most frightened. Worry about looking weak, having their fears show. May act arrogant but aren't really. Some study martial arts or seek a way of life that makes them strong. Beauty is another focus; trying to seem attractive so as to contain fear, get approval, and distract others. May consciously hide behind a seductive mask. Unlike Threes, Sixes know they are hiding. Can act cool and patrician or be flirty. Some have a focus on aesthetics. This subtype often has a stronger connection to the vanity of 3.
The Intimate Six
Anticipatory defense
The phrase usually associated with the intimate subtype of Six is "strength and beauty."
Within this subtype there is a tendency to develop strength, either inner or outer. Sixes are often quite disciplined anyway - it is a type of defense at times. So within this subtype you often find body builders and martial artists. The discipline it takes to become a martial artist is fueled by the belief that if I become strong enough, I won't have to worry about someone or something attacking me. In fact, at the pinnacle of martial arts is the learning how not to have to fight. The motivation is self-defense, not aggression or competition, as it would be within an Eight or Three Enneagram style.
The inner strength can be created by physical discipline, but especially if the Six has a strong Five wing, they may acquire knowledge as a way becoming strong. However, because fear resides in the mind and strength is more often a physical feeling, the usual way is to develop physical strength.
Many Counterphobic Sixes actively seek physical challenges in order to experience conquest. I watched a mountain climber being interviewed. He gave the usual answer to why he did it - because it was there - but his real reason was that he was afraid. When asked how he dealt with the fears involved with dealing with the dangers, he gave a classical Six answer. "You have to constantly be aware of your environment." This is how Sixes deal with fear. They constantly scan the environment for possible danger.
The feminine counterpart of this is beauty. The understanding is that if I am beautiful enough, I will not be attacked. Beauty does not get destroyed nearly as quickly as ugliness and beauty is valued. For many women, too, beauty is extremely valuable in gaining protection from powerful men.
But artistic endeavor is another route to beauty. intimate Sixes will often see arts and crafts as a way of shutting down the committee in their heads. Further, art is way of non-verbally reaching beyond what they can think. There is a sense of having reached the end of what they can figure out, they reach into painting or drawing or music to reach a level of integration they can't quite accomplish just by the compulsive think they are so often plagued with. They will often report long periods of peace - in their case freedom from fear - when they are engrossed in artistic endeavor.
Sexual Sixes get their sense of security primarily from their emotional bond with a significant other. But they also have many doubts, both about their own ability to have a suitable mate and about the mate's ability or willingness to really be there for them. Sexual Sixes often manifest a tension between their gender roles: they are both masculine and feminine, "macho" and coquettish. Moreover, Sexual Six women have a tough, tomboy side to them but still come across as feminine. Similarly, the men of this Variant display a sensitivity and vulnerability while being essentially masculine. Sexual Sixes also tend to be emotionally intense, like Eights and Fours. Part of this comes from anxiety about their ability to keep a strong, capable partner. Thus, Sexual Sixes try to cultivate their masculine or feminine attributes in order to find a good partner and, later, to remain appealing to this person. Often, they feel most comfortable relating to members of the opposite sex and may feel competitive with the same sex. They also tend to test their significant others to see if they are strong enough and to make sure that they are really committed to the relationship. When more stressed, Sexual Sixes can be emotionally volatile, with their feelings about people changing strongly and suddenly. They fall into suspiciousness about their partner and can be quite jealous, while at the same time feeling a strong need to "prove" their desirability.
Sixes with this subtype tend to act strong or seductive when insecure. They are much more likely to be counterphobic, especially the men. May seem like Eights, take risks, talk tough. Act powerful and in control at the times when they feel most frightened. Worry about looking weak, having their fears show. May act arrogant but aren't really. Some study martial arts or seek a way of life that makes them strong. Beauty is another focus; trying to seem attractive so as to contain fear, get approval, and distract others. May consciously hide behind a seductive mask. Unlike Threes, Sixes know they are hiding. Can act cool and patrician or be flirty. Some have a focus on aesthetics. This subtype often has a stronger connection to the vanity of 3.
The Intimate Six
Anticipatory defense
The phrase usually associated with the intimate subtype of Six is "strength and beauty."
Within this subtype there is a tendency to develop strength, either inner or outer. Sixes are often quite disciplined anyway - it is a type of defense at times. So within this subtype you often find body builders and martial artists. The discipline it takes to become a martial artist is fueled by the belief that if I become strong enough, I won't have to worry about someone or something attacking me. In fact, at the pinnacle of martial arts is the learning how not to have to fight. The motivation is self-defense, not aggression or competition, as it would be within an Eight or Three Enneagram style.
The inner strength can be created by physical discipline, but especially if the Six has a strong Five wing, they may acquire knowledge as a way becoming strong. However, because fear resides in the mind and strength is more often a physical feeling, the usual way is to develop physical strength.
Many Counterphobic Sixes actively seek physical challenges in order to experience conquest. I watched a mountain climber being interviewed. He gave the usual answer to why he did it - because it was there - but his real reason was that he was afraid. When asked how he dealt with the fears involved with dealing with the dangers, he gave a classical Six answer. "You have to constantly be aware of your environment." This is how Sixes deal with fear. They constantly scan the environment for possible danger.
The feminine counterpart of this is beauty. The understanding is that if I am beautiful enough, I will not be attacked. Beauty does not get destroyed nearly as quickly as ugliness and beauty is valued. For many women, too, beauty is extremely valuable in gaining protection from powerful men.
But artistic endeavor is another route to beauty. intimate Sixes will often see arts and crafts as a way of shutting down the committee in their heads. Further, art is way of non-verbally reaching beyond what they can think. There is a sense of having reached the end of what they can figure out, they reach into painting or drawing or music to reach a level of integration they can't quite accomplish just by the compulsive think they are so often plagued with. They will often report long periods of peace - in their case freedom from fear - when they are engrossed in artistic endeavor.
The Intimate Four
Suffering by Comparison
The intimate subtype of the Four competes around relationships. Competition is rooted in comparison and Fours and Ones both have the perceptual habit of comparing reality to what should be. This makes the One very critical, it makes the sexual (intimate) subtype Four competitive about emotional status, especially their status with the significant person in their life.
Fours in general believe that love is by far the most important thing in their lives and the sexual subtype in particular believes that when, and only when, they find the perfect love will they be happy. This is often coupled with the belief that once they had a perfect love. Either their mother or some significant person loved them unconditionally and this was the happiest -- and perhaps the only happy -- time of their life. This was the Garden of Eden before they were discovered to be defective and summarily rejected.
ENVY
But the competition goes a little further. Intimate Fours compare their state in life with that of others - and suffer by comparison. While they are prone to jealousy with a mate, they are prone to emotional evaluation and comparison with everyone they deem to be their equal. (I have four years of college like she does but I don't have a managerial position. She's so much further ahead than I am. Then... "I wonder what's wrong with me.")
The romantic tendency of the Fours comes out when the intimate subtype not only wants to be the person the mate loves the most, but what would make it perfect would be if they were the only person the mate ever loved. When the Four tries to obtain emotional status, that probably relates to the dependency of the style Two to which they have a strong connection. Twos get identity from being loved, intimate Fours get importance and self-worth as a gift from the one who loves them. Their self-worth is not rooted in the self, it has its origin in the estimation of the mate and of society.
Their envy can easily become professional envy. The professional envy is rooted in a desire for revenge (because I know they don't really respect me) and is rooted in a positive characteristic of the Four, an appreciation of quality. Whereas the Three plays to the crowd in a democratic way, the relational or intimate Four labors to gain the respect of their peers. And not only their peers, but those other professionals who really know quality when they see it. Threes play for the crowd, intimate Fours play for the other musicians, especially the visitors from the symphony.
EMOTIONAL CRITERIA
Comparison requires ways and means of keeping score. This is intricate because simple counting won't give you a qualitative analysis. Consequently, they covet prestige. Victories over one's peers is sweet indeed and one must take every effort to be recognized by the best people, especially those acknowledged experts. (Sometimes this is reversed in Social Fours, they want recognition only from those rejected by society but like all mirror images the importance remains constant).
OUT OF MY LEAGUE
A special cross for intimate Fours to bear is that they are drawn to precisely what they can't have. This is romantic tragedy. We are perfect for each other, but she lives in San Francisco and I dwell in Santa Fe. So we commute every third month. We have a wonderful week or weekend and then return to our respective hells. Or he is a carpenter and she is an opera star. Or she is wealthy and he sells siding. Any obstacle will do as long as the intimate Four doesn't have to endure the real relationship. It is so much sweeter in the mind than in reality.
But when the obstacle is taken away, then the habit of comparing reality to the ideal (which worked fine when I idealized her as she lived in San Francisco) sets in, and I begin to notice that she has shoddy taste in Impressionism, actually listens to Metallica and may have voted for George Bush. How can I possibly live with such a creature? The comparative thinking leads to fault finding as it compares a real person to an ideal.
This can set up a push/pull relationship. I love you while you are absent, but up close I notice you have a lot of faults. But as soon as you go, I begin to idealize you and get in touch with the really deep feelings I have for you. Please come back and torture me again.
Fours in general believe that love is by far the most important thing in their lives and the sexual subtype in particular believes that when, and only when, they find the perfect love will they be happy. This is often coupled with the belief that once they had a perfect love. Either their mother or some significant person loved them unconditionally and this was the happiest -- and perhaps the only happy -- time of their life. This was the Garden of Eden before they were discovered to be defective and summarily rejected.
ENVY
But the competition goes a little further. Intimate Fours compare their state in life with that of others - and suffer by comparison. While they are prone to jealousy with a mate, they are prone to emotional evaluation and comparison with everyone they deem to be their equal. (I have four years of college like she does but I don't have a managerial position. She's so much further ahead than I am. Then... "I wonder what's wrong with me.")
The romantic tendency of the Fours comes out when the intimate subtype not only wants to be the person the mate loves the most, but what would make it perfect would be if they were the only person the mate ever loved. When the Four tries to obtain emotional status, that probably relates to the dependency of the style Two to which they have a strong connection. Twos get identity from being loved, intimate Fours get importance and self-worth as a gift from the one who loves them. Their self-worth is not rooted in the self, it has its origin in the estimation of the mate and of society.
Their envy can easily become professional envy. The professional envy is rooted in a desire for revenge (because I know they don't really respect me) and is rooted in a positive characteristic of the Four, an appreciation of quality. Whereas the Three plays to the crowd in a democratic way, the relational or intimate Four labors to gain the respect of their peers. And not only their peers, but those other professionals who really know quality when they see it. Threes play for the crowd, intimate Fours play for the other musicians, especially the visitors from the symphony.
EMOTIONAL CRITERIA
Comparison requires ways and means of keeping score. This is intricate because simple counting won't give you a qualitative analysis. Consequently, they covet prestige. Victories over one's peers is sweet indeed and one must take every effort to be recognized by the best people, especially those acknowledged experts. (Sometimes this is reversed in Social Fours, they want recognition only from those rejected by society but like all mirror images the importance remains constant).
OUT OF MY LEAGUE
A special cross for intimate Fours to bear is that they are drawn to precisely what they can't have. This is romantic tragedy. We are perfect for each other, but she lives in San Francisco and I dwell in Santa Fe. So we commute every third month. We have a wonderful week or weekend and then return to our respective hells. Or he is a carpenter and she is an opera star. Or she is wealthy and he sells siding. Any obstacle will do as long as the intimate Four doesn't have to endure the real relationship. It is so much sweeter in the mind than in reality.
But when the obstacle is taken away, then the habit of comparing reality to the ideal (which worked fine when I idealized her as she lived in San Francisco) sets in, and I begin to notice that she has shoddy taste in Impressionism, actually listens to Metallica and may have voted for George Bush. How can I possibly live with such a creature? The comparative thinking leads to fault finding as it compares a real person to an ideal.
This can set up a push/pull relationship. I love you while you are absent, but up close I notice you have a lot of faults. But as soon as you go, I begin to idealize you and get in touch with the really deep feelings I have for you. Please come back and torture me again.
Outside of the subtypes; I very much relate to these parts of the 6w7 description:
I would LOVE to pay someone to make my major decisions.
I did lift most of that wording right off the enneagraminstitute website, so hopefully it's pretty unbiased as far as INFJ-vs-ENFP goes. Though it also occurred to me while writing that w5 seems much more IJ overall while w7 seems much more EP overall.
Here's some stuff from mindheart.org. Maybe useful in terms of wing "flavor"?
six with seven wing
general description
When an average 6/7 feels anxious, the reaction is likely to be immediate and colorful. Unlike the more subdued 6/5, 6/7 is likely to react impulsively to stress. Instead of analyzing, 6/7 is more likely to sevenishly jump into action, sometimes in inappropriate ways. However, because the cautious sixness is more powerful than the flamboyant seven-wing, 6/7 usually pulls back from extremes before they become too threatening, unlike the even less predictable 7/6. This inner conflict between flamboyance and caution can produce a person who is emotionally rather volatile, similar in some ways to 4/3.
balanced and transcendent states
Balanced 6/7 has a feeling of firm steadiness, sure-footed and quiet. As sevenish impulsivity and sixish anxiety diminish, they are replaced by a calm deliberateness. Although fun and companionship are still highly valued, the desperate longing for security has been converted into inner strength. This is someone who can become a true brother or sister, or a genuinely loving parent.
With further development, 6/7 finds a deep sense of belonging to the universe, and to mankind. Nineish calm and sixish faith combine with sevenish joy and fiveish perception. This is a person who values the relationship with the One Greatest Authority over all others. Through gentle, tolerant brotherhood, extremely balanced 6/7 shares with others a sense of eternal companionship and security.
unbalanced and unhealthy states
Unbalanced 6/7 is usually visibly desperate. Anxiety and insecurity become powerful controlling influences. Jumping from one colorful emotional state to another, trying to find any way to quell the increasing sense of uncertainty and vulnerability, stressed 6/7 looks for someone out there who will help, but finds no one who can be trusted.
As tension mounts, highly stressed 6/7 will try anything to escape from the increasingly intolerable situations that arise. Others move away from a person whose impulsive grabbiness and dependent gestures become unpleasantly intrusive. Physical illness, car troubles, boyfriends, girlfriends, landlords, all become scapegoats for the real problem of inner helpless dependence. You are either all-good or all-bad, and whether I like you or not can change from moment to moment. My very identity splits into fragments as I desperately cut myself into pieces to escape the horrible sense of impending catastrophe.
physical appearance
6/7s can be quite physically attractive. The sixish desire to be liked combines with sevenish sensuality and vanity, and the result could be someone who can dress and act in a remarkably appealing way. There is sometimes a shy sort of cutenessshrug
In regards to 4w3 I relate to this:
four with three wing
general description
Average 4/3 is emotionally spicy. Because of the conflict between the three-wing's desire to be in the spotlight and the four's self-conscious fear of exposure, they may alternate between extremes of extroversion and introversion. Unlike the cooler 3/4s, 4/3s may find it difficult (if not impossible) to stay calm when emotions come up. They are more likely to talk about their overwhelming feelings than the much more rational, analytical, withdrawn 4/5s.
balanced and transcendent states
Balanced 4/3 finds the peace of equanimity. When four integrates to one and three integrates to six, deep compassionate wisdom is augmented by a feeling of brotherhood and belonging. Finally, the 4/3 reaches a point where comfort is possible without being tormented by a desire that others recognize that special uniqueness. Others who are feeling emotional difficulty can find sensitive, unselfish understanding in a balanced 4/3.
When 4/3 becomes deeply self-aware, there is a feeling of tremendous emotional integrity. Others feel that they are genuinely being heard, but not judged in any way. Somehow the advanced 4/3 manages to be both an equal and a teacher, both a sympathetic listener and a disciplined advisor. Real transformations happen in the lives of those who tell their stories to such people. People become powerfully motivated to find the real meaning in their lives.
unbalanced and unhealthy states
Unbalanced 4/3 swings through wild emotional cycles. As fourish emotionality gets more out of control, bringing in the selfish expectations of special treatment of the unhealthy two, the three-wing's nineish tendencies cause a kind of split within the psyche. The more intensely the dramatized pseudo-emotions are felt, the less in touch the 4/3 becomes with the real, honest feelings that lie underneath. The dramatic emotions become more and more staged and false.
In the unhealthy extreme, there is little actual contact with real feelings, despite the possibly awe-inspiring intensity of the outward expression. All the theatrical emotionality is a fearful cover for an inner emptiness that will not go away. Extremely unbalanced 4/3 has become so attached to the outward expression of the false emotions that the real feelings are overwhelmed and drowned out. The conviction of being hopelessly flawed may lead to desperate attempts to end it all with suicide, almost always in some dramatic, attention-grabbing way. I'm a hopeless romantic, unable to live a normal life. I might as well end it all right now, because no one will ever understand my torment. At least then, others might see the depth of my pain.
physical appearance(I think this part is trash, but whatever.)
4/3 is the type most interested in a really artful, tastefully unique presentation. They often like to combine black and bright colors. 4/3s are usually thin to medium in build, although there are some exceptions. The females often wear their hair in some way that gives it a lot of body, such as shoulder-length (or longer) curls. Both sexes like to dress up. Some of the most outrageous costumes ever seen in ordinary public places are on 4/3s (the rest are on sevens).
All help and opinions are appreciated.
Sorry it's late...
