[Type 4] What are 4w3s like?

[badger055]

So I have a 4w3 fix and I'm interested to know what real core 4w3s are like. I haven't really seen many 4w3s around mostly 4w5s. So 4w3s what does being "the aristocrat" mean to you? Do you have drama queen or diva tendencies?

 

[LadyLazarus]

Stupid.
I hate those fuckers most of all.

On a serious note, I think being an ISFP 4w3 makes me seem more extroverted than the enneagram 9 ISFP's.

I must admit I do have some drama queen tendencies(ok a lot of drama queen tendencies) and a bit of diva-ish tendencies as well.
Mostly I think it all stems from an extremely high degree of self-absorption though.I do sometimes exaggerate these tendencies because I enjoy the feel they give me but then I feel like a fake so I stop.I try not to pretend to be something I'm not but instead exaggerate aspects of who I already am.

To put it succinctly, "being the aristocrat" for me at least is about contradictions within my own identity, it's about concern for authenticity warring with concern about presenting a likable facade to the world, then being confused and disgusted after doing so.

 

[badger055]

Stupid.
I hate those fuckers most of all.

Ok post again and this time tell me about yourself god damnit. I want to know how much of my megalomania comes from 4w3.

 

[LadyLazarus]

Ok post again and this time tell me about yourself god damnit. I want to know how much of my megalomania comes from 4w3.

Look up I edited.

 

[badger055]

Stupid.
I hate those fuckers most of all.

On a serious note, I think being an ISFP 4w3 makes me seem more extroverted than the enneagram 9 ISFP's.

I must admit I do have some drama queen tendencies(ok a lot of drama queen tendencies) and a bit of diva-ish tendencies as well.
Mostly I think it all stems from an extremely high degree of self-absorption though.

To put it succinctly, "being the aristocrat" for me at least is about contradictions within my own identity, it's about concern for authenticity warring with concern about presenting a likable facade to the world, then being confused and disgusted after doing so.

Do you feel like the whole world should burn at your feet just so you can live? Or is that just me?

I relate to the facade and being confused thing but it's not that extreme.

 

[LadyLazarus]

Do you feel like the whole world should burn at your feet just so you can live? Or is that just me?

I relate to the facade and being confused thing but it's not that extreme.

In a sense yes, I'm an extremely selfish person, I'd be ok with the world burning at my feet if it was of benefit to me for some reason, but I wouldn't want it to burn if it was of no benefit to me.
I think that's just my Fi though, Ti probably wouldn't have that dilemma.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I've only looked into this enneagram stuff within the past week. I took the test on two different sites. The first time I came out 3w4 and the other site it was 4w either 5 or 3. I don't like the idea that I'm concerned so much with my image, but I accept it. It stems from my childhood, and my brother was the "smart" one with no proof of it. I got praise only when I did something, and I did a lot of somethings, awards, good grades, not to brag, but I've got a Master of Science, and still to this day, the broad label of being "smart" is never applied to me. I surpassed my brother's accomplishments a long time ago.

This megalomania you speak of, I think I have that too. I quit my job in October, because it seemed like chump change to me. I could stay at that job all my life and people would be pleased with me...I thought I should take a risk, and do something I enjoyed that might have more impact on the world. There's a chance it won't work out and I'm letting my career go and my resume will have a lot of empty space on it, but I figure you have to gamble big to win big. Most of my family and friends act awkward when I tell them about what I'm up to, and my parents don't approve. Doesn't matter. I've already proven that I'm as high functioning as they are, and they're not as special as they think. I wished they knew the extent of my low opinions of them, especially the fraction of the family who think More Money=Better/Higher Status=Better Human Being and they're imposing these values on me. They have no idea what a huge insult this is to me, and I doubt that they could understand why.

Do you relate to any of this?

Enjoyed sharing with you.

 

[badger055]

In a sense yes, I'm an extremely selfish person, I'd be ok with the world burning at my feet if it was of benefit to me for some reason, but I wouldn't want it to burn if it was of no benefit to me.
I think that's just my Fi though, Ti probably wouldn't have that dilemma.

Hmm interesting. For me I wouldn't call 4w3 an aristocrat or diva. I would call it more of a king or emperor syndrome.

I've only looked into this enneagram stuff within the past week. I took the test on two different sites. The first time I came out 3w4 and the other site it was 4w either 5 or 3. I don't like the idea that I'm concerned so much with my image, but I accept it. It stems from my childhood, and my brother was the "smart" one with no proof of it. I got praise only when I did something, and I did a lot of somethings, awards, good grades, not to brag, but I've got a Master of Science, and still to this day, the broad label of being "smart" is never applied to me. I surpassed my brother's accomplishments a long time ago.

This megalomania you speak of, I think I have that too. I quit my job in October, because it seemed like chump change to me. I could stay at that job all my life and people would be pleased with me...I thought I should take a risk, and do something I enjoyed that might have more impact on the world. There's a chance it won't work out and I'm letting my career go and my resume will have a lot of empty space on it, but I figure you have to gamble big to win big. Most of my family and friends act awkward when I tell them about what I'm up to, and my parents don't approve. Doesn't matter. I've already proven that I'm as high functioning as they are, and they're not as special as they think. I wished they knew the extent of my low opinions of them, especially the fraction of the family who think More Money=Better/Higher Status=Better Human Being and they're imposing these values on me. They have no idea what a huge insult this is to me, and I doubt that they could understand why.

Do you relate to any of this?

Enjoyed sharing with you.

Yea I relate to it somewhat. I have never had a job more than 3 months because I always felt like it was worthless or beneath me. I always treated the jobs like garbage.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I didn't treat any job really as if it were beneath me, but I was always trying to escape from it. Like, I got that Master's degree partly believing it'd help me get a better position (which was also beneath me). I hate to admit that I felt that way or to discuss my bigger aspirations, but I did think I could do something more meaningful and less mundane. Maybe it was a longer journey for me than you to reach the point where I could act on what I felt. I had to prove something to myself, that I could have a certain job, before moving on to something bigger. Possibly you aren't as achievement-oriented. I have to take what is in my head and heart and prove it to the world. So, I'm in touch with the reality that I'm not what I wish I were, and trying to reconcile that. Everyone might do that in your own way. I'm pretty sure some of my relatives are aware to some level of what I think of them, and my perceptions are their reality and they have to correct me by telling me what shit they own, where they've been, blah, blah, blah, and if I think differently about them, then that alters the reality of what they are. If they were tryng to impress me, they went about it all wrong...

Oh it's late. Going to sleep.

 

[LadyLazarus]

Hmm interesting. For me I wouldn't call 4w3 an aristocrat or diva. I would call it more of a king or emperor syndrome.

From my perspective,

Unhealthy 4w3's may be more susceptible to "emperor syndrome", as healthier 4's grow towards 1, which may instill in them some sort of morality/ help them find their own morality, which may then result in them becoming less emperor-like and take the edge off their entitlement tendencies a bit. I've read healthy 4's tend to be kind, sincere, and righteous, which in my experience has held true for me at my best.

Unhealthy 4's however fall deeper into the pit of narcissism(extreme case) and indulge their emperor syndrome instead of learning to moderate it like healthy 4's, at 2 they may become not only needier but also more demanding.
I think, at my worst I tend to become a "princess" so to speak, my self-absorption, selfishness, and entitlement go through the roof and I become a very clingy and demanding person.

To summarize; when healthy I am a reasonable woman, when unhealthy I am a bitchy princess.
Although, no matter how healthy I get I'm still not inclined towards self-sacrifice or even discomfort, my needs/ wants will always be my priority.

 

[cascadeco]

Do you feel like the whole world should burn at your feet just so you can live? Or is that just me?

No. Never have.

I am wondering if some of the things you've brought up are more applicable to 4w3 sx dom?

I can say that I've seen a pretty big difference between sx-doms and non-sx-doms in how they view the world/ themselves in the context of it.

I'm almost positive I'm a 4, and I'm almost positive I'm NOT a 4w5 (I do not have the research/academic tendencies w5's have). I think that I have the image consciousness of w3, and also more of the achievement/accomplishment/movement orientation. Being so-dom, though, I think I'm much much less diva-ish. I have my dramatic, very sensitive moments, but they're pretty much always in a 1:1 context, with intimates. Re. 'aristocrat' name for 4w3, I haven't read enough of the descriptions. But, again, think image consciousness, also value of my appearance, aesthetics, how I come across to people, perhaps some of the societal elements of achievement, ties into w3. Throw in some snobbery/ pickiness, maybe. High expectations of self, of 'accomplishing' things.

 

[ayoitsStepho]

Do you feel like the whole world should burn at your feet just so you can live? Or is that just me?

Eh, not really. But it's more because I want the stuff the world has for my selfish desires.

It's been said already, but the war to be yourself and to rise to the top are very prevalent in me. I can go just about anywhere and tell you the hierarchy of the people. The problem that comes in for me is this need to be on top. To out do everyone. BUT I can only do it my own unique way. It's not always like this, but if I were to stay somewhere for a while (college) and notice how everything works, I have to fight the urge to work my way up to being the most known person or the most talented or the most whatever because it doesn't always matter. I want to be true to who I am and if being on top takes away from that, I will not do it. This could also have to do with my being a so/sx.

I try to use my quirks and brokenness to fuel my growth. I just want to be a better person and I want to be able to see that change happening all the time.
Can I be dramatic? Ohhhhh yeah! But I try to put that energy into how I express myself to people. If I'm telling you a story about my day, I will get up and physically do everything I did so you can see with PASSION! I'm a weirdo, what can I say?

Does any of this make sense? I'm feeling a bit more passionate tonight so I may be going on weird bunny trails.
[MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION]
Everything she said. That fits better for what I believe I experience.

 

[1487610420]

Throw in some snobbery/ pickiness, maybe. High expectations of self, of 'accomplishing' things.

 

[badger055]

From my perspective,

Unhealthy 4w3's may be more susceptible to "emperor syndrome", as healthier 4's grow towards 1, which may instill in them some sort of morality/ help them find their own morality, which may then result in them becoming less emperor-like and take the edge off their entitlement tendencies a bit. I've read healthy 4's tend to be kind, sincere, and righteous, which in my experience has held true for me at my best.

Unhealthy 4's however fall deeper into the pit of narcissism(extreme case) and indulge their emperor syndrome instead of learning to moderate it like healthy 4's, at 2 they may become not only needier but also more demanding.
I think, at my worst I tend to become a "princess" so to speak, my self-absorption, selfishness, and entitlement go through the roof and I become a very clingy and demanding person.

To summarize; when healthy I am reasonable woman, when unhealthy I am a bitchy princess.
Although, no matter how healthy I get I'm still not inclined towards self-sacrifice or even discomfort, my needs/ wants will always be my priority.

I see. I don't really have that sophistication it's just on one setting "emperor mode". I feel like loki. "You can't tell me I'm not a king because I am a king!"

I think I kind of like 4w3s now. They get to enter my short list of types I don't hate.

No. Never have.

I am wondering if some of the things you've brought up are more applicable to 4w3 sx dom?

I can say that I've seen a pretty big difference between sx-doms and non-sx-doms in how they view the world/ themselves in the context of it.

I'm almost positive I'm a 4, and I'm almost positive I'm NOT a 4w5 (I do not have the research/academic tendencies w5's have). I think that I have the image consciousness of w3, and also more of the achievement/accomplishment/movement orientation. Being so-dom, though, I think I'm much much less diva-ish. I have my dramatic, very sensitive moments, but they're pretty much always in a 1:1 context, with intimates. Re. 'aristocrat' name for 4w3, I haven't read enough of the descriptions. But, again, think image consciousness, also value of my appearance, aesthetics, how I come across to people, perhaps some of the societal elements of achievement, ties into w3. Throw in some snobbery/ pickiness, maybe. High expectations of self, of 'accomplishing' things.

Yea probably more of an sx dom thing.

Eh, not really. But it's more because I want the stuff the world has for my selfish desires.

It's been said already, but the war to be yourself and to rise to the top are very prevalent in me. I can go just about anywhere and tell you the hierarchy of the people. The problem that comes in for me is this need to be on top. To out do everyone. BUT I can only do it my own unique way. It's not always like this, but if I were to stay somewhere for a while (college) and notice how everything works, I have to fight the urge to work my way up to being the most known person or the most talented or the most whatever because it doesn't always matter. I want to be true to who I am and if being on top takes away from that, I will not do it. This could also have to do with my being a so/sx.

I try to use my quirks and brokenness to fuel my growth. I just want to be a better person and I want to be able to see that change happening all the time.
Can I be dramatic? Ohhhhh yeah! But I try to put that energy into how I express myself to people. If I'm telling you a story about my day, I will get up and physically do everything I did so you can see with PASSION! I'm a weirdo, what can I say?

Does any of this make sense? I'm feeling a bit more passionate tonight so I may be going on weird bunny trails.
[MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION]
Everything she said. That fits better for what I believe I experience.

Yea makes sense but I can't relate much to the social dom stuff. 4w3s seem alive and fiery I like that.

 

[MWill]

Think David Byrne

 

[hjgbujhghg]

Being 4w3 is like being 4w5 only more mainstream...
For me it's not about drama, or emotional expressivity, I am the right opposite. 4s are known for their strong sense of authenticity and it's true for me. I see drama as fake overplay of impersonal feelings. I am humble about expressing feelings and show less then I should. But what makes me different from 4w5 is my need for being accepted, appreciated, likeable, noticed and popular. My desire to be succesful and my need for being noticed for my work.

 

[Noll]

But what makes me different from 4w5 is my need for being accepted, appreciated, likeable, noticed and popular. My desire to be succesful and my need for being noticed for my work.

That's a general thing for 4s, not bound to wings. Especially with social-dom.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

That's a general thing for 4s, not bound to wings. Especially with social-dom.

General things for 4s are searching for authenticity, originality, high emotionality and sensitivity, creativity.... 4s don't feel such a strong need to be liked, or appreciated, because being authentic and true to themselves is much more important for them. I agree it can be characteristic for social social doms.

 

[brainheart]

Being 4w3 is like being 4w5 only more mainstream...

I would agree with that.

 

[animenagai]

4w3's tend to want to be respected and successful. A lot of 4w5's can shut out the world and just be themselves, even if that means be a starving artist or whatnot. It's harder for 4w3's to do that. We want to be ourselves, every bit as much as our 5-wing counterparts, but we also want some measure of success, be that praise from peers, financial security, power, whatever. These two things don't necessarily go hand in hand, leading to a lot of tensions.

Edit: This is my 1500th post! Joined in 2008... damn I'm a slowpoke. Can I at least evolve to a slowbro/slowking?