[so] Are Social-lasts arguably 'better' at socializing?

[Stansmith]

Or at least, more likely to leave a genuine impression since they lack the typical constraints that insecure So-doms usually put themselves through?

 

[LadyLazarus]

Hmm I wouldn't say better(no I definitely suck),but we are probably more sincere in regards to how we go about it, we're probably not as inclined to jumping through hoops.

In that sort of fashion, I suppose we do kind of have our own weird brand of charm.

 

[skylights]

Just to address the sincerity and genuineness thing... I feel a huge drive to be sincere and genuine about how I relate with people. It's my lifeblood; nothing means more to me than heart-to-heart relating with other people. The Social variant does not cloud the desire to be one's own true self when relating with others.

I do totally agree that Soc-last relating might be more "pure" in terms of less changing of communication to match the situation, but the way I look at it, the changes I do make to my communication to suit the environment make it so that I get my intentions across better. I see it like translating... I know that what I mean in my mind and heart and what someone else might interpret could be different, so I try to change my wording or approach so they can understand my true meaning better. This might impact the "purity" of my initial language, but it might also get my point across to them better, which means that the core meaning gets preserved better.

When Social-lasts communicate, I think there can be more misunderstanding on the receiving end because the Social-last hasn't done as much to "translate" their communication into a form that others can readily receive. So to me it's odd when people say that Social-doms are not being authentic, because the whole reason we do change our communication is to be authentic. We just have such a heightened consciousness of our external social environment that we tend to see all the different ways in which our messages and meanings could get misinterpreted, and we feel like we need to account for that when we attempt to reach across the gaps between ourselves and others. But of course we tend to over-compensate, and would do better to be a little more chill about it.

To come around to the OP question... I actually would wager that it's Social-seconds who are the most fluid in social interaction. They can see enough of what Social-doms see that they can account for it too but they don't get all hung up on it like we do. Soc-lasts seem to have a bit of an "edge" to their interactions, IME, that can be a bit confusing or isolating to others. Soc-seconds still go about their own business socially and don't obsess but they soften that "edge" a bit.

Which is not at all to down Soc-lasts - their strength being the unfiltered purity of their communication. I suspect some of my favorite poets and musicians are Social-lasts.

 

[HongDou]

The Social variant does not cloud the desire to be one's own true self when relating with others.

YES. God yes.

I do totally agree that Soc-last relating might be more "pure" in terms of less changing of communication to match the situation, but the way I look at it, the changes I do make to my communication to suit the environment make it so that I get my intentions across better. I see it like translating... I know that what I mean in my mind and heart and what someone else might interpret could be different, so I try to change my wording or approach so they can understand my true meaning better. This might impact the "purity" of my initial language, but it might also get my point across to them better, which means that the core meaning gets preserved better.

In this sense, I guess you could call social last communication "unfiltered." But then again, I don't really change what I say - minus Pe running thoughts over other thoughts mid-sentence (hey look I did it just now - and again - and again - omg). Personally, I just say whatever's on my mind and I add other sentiments I firmly believe in to keep it community-friendly. For example, "[something I think that might possibly be misinterpreted in a negative social context here], oh but [clarifying previous statement to remove negative social context based on my own values here]."

We just have such a high awareness of our external environment that we tend to see all the different ways in which our messages and meanings could get misinterpreted, and we feel like we need to account for that when we attempt to reach across the gaps between ourselves and others.

Haha Sky...what I said in the above quote I typed out before even this part of what you said. That's hilarious.

Just a note, I think [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] said the social instinct actually seems the most "intuitive" out of the instincts because it has this awareness of different meanings and interpretations of what is said in communication.

But of course we tend to over-compensate, and would do better to be a little more chill about it.

I don't think I particularly overcompensate. This could be the 6 in you. Hmm, I guess it does seem a little emphasized though.

To come around to the OP question... I actually would wager that it's Social-seconds who are the most fluid in social interaction. They can see enough of what Social-doms see that they can account for it too but they don't get all hung up on it like we do. Soc-lasts seem to have a bit of an "edge" to their interactions, IME, that can be a bit confusing or isolating to others. Soc-seconds still go about their own business socially and don't obsess but they soften that "edge" a bit.

Hmm, to be honest I don't think there's one single ideal way to socialize. I can see how, from this POV, social-seconds seem to have an admirable way of communicating. But some people might prefer the "unfiltered" social-last interaction style, and some might prefer the more gentle and considerate nature of the social-first. Maybe there is an ideal way to socialize as a society, but even then I think it varies across cultures. Hell, I still remember videos of those classes those coming from Asian countries took to learn how to smile to make business appointments run more smoothly.

 

[skylights]

In this sense, I guess you could call social last communication "unfiltered." But then again, I don't really change what I say - minus Pe running thoughts over other thoughts mid-sentence (hey look I did it just now - and again - and again - omg). Personally, I just say whatever's on my mind and I add other sentiments I firmly believe in to keep it community-friendly. For example, "[something I think that might possibly be misinterpreted in a negative social context here], oh but [clarifying previous statement to remove negative social context based on my own values here]."

Yeah, you're right. I don't necessarily consciously pause and change anything either. It's just automatically changed to be okay with the environment. Like I would probably speak totally differently in a formal context than in a casual one and to me that seems completely and totally natural, and I doubt I would even consciously think about it. It just happens. I do the clarifying follow-up too, lol.

Haha Sky...what I said in the above quote I typed out before even this part of what you said. That's hilarious.

Just a note, I think [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] said the social instinct actually seems the most "intuitive" out of the instincts because it has this awareness of different meanings and interpretations of what is said in communication.

Interesting.

I don't think I particularly overcompensate. This could be the 6 in you. Hmm, I guess it does seem a little emphasized though.

Lol, could be true! I was thinking about how the dominant instinct is overused and how it causes stress. Like...

• primary stresses - being able to adjust to others and be acceptable; others' reactions to them, whether they are being accepted or not; may include intimacy, which is tended to be avoided
• coping methods (unhealthy) - antisocial behavior, detesting or resenting society at large, displaying poorly developed social skills, fear and distrust of society, resentfulness at having had to change to gain approval causes a stubbornness against doing what is necessary to get along with people, social resentment and avoidance as is skewed by the secondary instinct

Hmm, to be honest I don't think there's one single ideal way to socialize. I can see how, from this POV, social-seconds seem to have an admirable way of communicating. But some people might prefer the "unfiltered" social-last interaction style, and some might prefer the more gentle and considerate nature of the social-first. Maybe there is an ideal way to socialize as a society, but even then I think it varies across cultures. Hell, I still remember videos of those classes those coming from Asian countries took to learn how to smile to make business appointments run more smoothly.

Yeah, you're totally right. Many different ways and many different preferences.

 

[HongDou]

Lol, could be true! I was thinking about how the dominant instinct is overused and how it causes stress. Like...

Ahh okay this makes more sense. It probably is something that's overemphasized throughout the course of the day - I was just thinking of specific instances.

Also I've been flexing my 8 wing and sx push/pull muscles recently, so I've been more assertive lately and less concerned with getting along with friends. Excuse the Fi/Si talking.

 

[five sounds]

nah, i think soc-doms are the gifted ones there. as sx/sp, i excel in one-on-one interactions. in a group, i often feel kinda weird and drifty if i don't have a person to like buddy up with. in other words, i'm less 'natural' or 'genuine' in big groups, and give off the impression that i'm either shy/quiet or aloof. one-on-one, i don't think i come off as either. i'm more confident and more engaged.

 

[Qlip]

I feel like the biggest difference is that So'ers are way better at selling it to the crowd and with 'herding people'. I'm just as good as getting in there and talking to people, but it wouldn't even occur to me to try to shepherd them.

 

[HongDou]

nah, i think soc-doms are the gifted ones there. as sx/sp, i excel in one-on-one interactions. in a group, i often feel kinda weird and drifty if i don't have a person to like buddy up with. in other words, i'm less 'natural' or 'genuine' in big groups, and give off the impression that i'm either shy/quiet or aloof. one-on-one, i don't think i come off as either. i'm more confident and more engaged.

Hmm, I kinda relate to this too though. I'm darkside so/sx though (weaker so stronger sx than usual), and I think it's just that sx wants to zone in on something which is why we come off as drifty or awkward. I dunno, I can get kinda either energized from group interaction when the people stimulate me enough and I feel satisfied with the interaction or I can get kinda down if the conversation was dominated by other people and I didn't really get to pull anything from it. Even in a really small group (3 people, the closest thing to 1-on-1 without not being 1-on-1), I remember going to the gym the other day with two of my friends (xxFJ so/sp girl, ESFJ either so/sx or so/sp guy - he's basically all social and nothing else haha I should start a typing thread for him) and I had to repeat myself FOUR times until the ESFJ guy stopped interrupting me right as I started saying something. Thank god I had the gym to channel my negative energy into after that.

I know [MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION] kept pushing the fact onto me that I liked my cliques because I was so/sx, but really all I care about doing is building relationships. I personally prefer 1-on-1 interaction because it allows me to show all sides of who I am rather than just one, which is what group interaction forcibly limits you too a lot of the time. With just one person, I can show my serious sides and share more meaningful sentiments, while also feeling more free to have fun and do what I want without being collectively judged. If you're in a group to socialize, all you can really do is go with the flow (I mean, you can suggest things but it has to be judged by the whole group which is kinda terrible) unless you REALLY want/need to do something else - in that case you just leave them all to do their own thing.

 

[skylights]

I know [MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION] kept pushing the fact onto me that I liked my cliques because I was so/sx, but really all I care about doing is building relationships. I personally prefer 1-on-1 interaction [...] If you're in a group to socialize, all you can really do is go with the flow (I mean, you can suggest things but it has to be judged by the whole group which is kinda terrible) unless you REALLY want/need to do something else - in that case you just leave them all to do their own thing.

Same.

I can do "herding" sometimes around a cause - raising money for something important, fighting against an injustice that impacts the collective - but overall I'd much rather talk 1-on-1 with someone about their desires and dreams. I do love being part of a group but I prefer 1-on-1 or small group interaction within that larger group context.

I don't even know if I'm good at selling it to a crowd. I think I can convince lots of people individually but that's how I'd do it - I'd go to each person in the group, or small 2-4 person groups, and talk to them personally about whatever I want to convince them of. I have always shied away from speaking to large groups. I have a difficult time "reading" crowds because there is so much nuanced feedback from each individual that it all clouds together for me. I can give a presentation but I don't react very well to a crowd in real time. It feels disorienting and uncomfortable to me.

 

[brainheart]

Same.

I can do "herding" sometimes around a cause - raising money for something important, fighting against an injustice that impacts the collective - but overall I'd much rather talk 1-on-1 with someone about their desires and dreams. I do love being part of a group but I prefer 1-on-1 or small group interaction within that larger group context.

I don't even know if I'm good at selling it to a crowd. I think I can convince lots of people individually but that's how I'd do it - I'd go to each person in the group, or small 2-4 person groups, and talk to them personally about whatever I want to convince them of. I have always shied away from speaking to large groups. I have a difficult time "reading" crowds because there is so much nuanced feedback from each individual that it all clouds together for me. I can give a presentation but I don't react very well to a crowd in real time. It feels disorienting and uncomfortable to me.

This is so my so/sx husband I can't even tell you.

[MENTION=18664]Stansmith[/MENTION], I think my husband comes across as incredibly earnest and authentic. That said, he does a whole lot of complaining to me about his friends and co-workers, things he will never come out and say to them. I'm always confused by this. I'll say, 'why don't you just ask them not to talk to you about such and such a thing if it annoys you?' But the idea of just coming out and saying something like that to people feels wrong to him.

Conversely, I suck at sugar coating which makes for lots of awkward silences after I open my mouth in a social situation. I don't know how my creating awkward silences would make me better at socializing. My husband is likeable in ways that I will never be. I think people can respect my honesty and candor, but I don't think they enjoy it all that much. It makes me think of that saying, You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I've never been good at catching flies, but my husband is great at it.

 

[skylights]

This is so my so/sx husband I can't even tell you.

@Stansmith, I think my husband comes across as incredibly earnest and authentic. That said, he does a whole lot of complaining to me about his friends and co-workers, things he will never come out and say to them. I'm always confused by this. I'll say, 'why don't you just ask them not to talk to you about such and such a thing if it annoys you?' But the idea of just coming out and saying something like that to people feels wrong to him.

This is very me, too! Sorry to you and my boyfriend for being the ones we complain to, lol. At least for me, it can be challenging to find the "right" time and place to say something to someone, as well as the right words and tone.

For example, I have a coworker who came into work yesterday and, like almost every day, began going on and on about how awful her home life is. I've spoken to others in our department and many of us feel like it can be hard to deal with this from her - it's a large emotional burden to play counselor to someone every day on top of worrying about one's own work. But at the same time, this woman is a single mom and she's also taking care of her parents, one of whom is at the late stages of brain cancer and both who are experiencing dementia, and her own family is fairly unsupportive. Still, I do think she really needs to stop dumping her emotional load on us every day. But most of us do bring some degree of our lives into work, and sometimes we run it by our coworkers too. I've certainly had periods of time where I've relied more on my coworkers emotionally than others.

So... how do I decide when exactly enough is enough? As a senior and higher-ranking coworker but not her manager, but with our manager travelling, I have some authority over her, but I'm also much younger and I don't want her to feel like I'm trying to power-play her. The company we work for has had some shitty management changes lately and there's a lot of power play going on, and I want to steer very clear of that. How can I say something such that it will have a good impact in terms of making her calm it down but not making her feel unsupported? Is it best to deliberately but quietly pull her away at a good time, or should I just catch her at a random interval when we're in private? Do I need to address this at all, or just let it play out? And so on go my thoughts.

I think part of the reason I talk to others about situations like this is I like hearing their feedback about their feelings about what is appropriate and the best course of interaction in the situation (and of course that is a very 6w7 thing to do). My boyfriend is so straightforward and easygoing that I especially like hearing his opinion - he tends to minimize conflict and maximize honesty. I can imagine that your husband has similar feelings about why your feedback is valuable and appreciates having you as a sounding board, too.

 

[Noll]

nah, i think soc-doms are the gifted ones there. as sx/sp, i excel in one-on-one interactions. in a group, i often feel kinda weird and drifty if i don't have a person to like buddy up with. in other words, i'm less 'natural' or 'genuine' in big groups, and give off the impression that i'm either shy/quiet or aloof. one-on-one, i don't think i come off as either. i'm more confident and more engaged.

I'm exactly like you and I'm definitely so/sp ... well okay not exactly never mind. Point I'm getting at is that instinctual variants are VERY different depending on the type they are. 3w2 so/sp is NOTHING like 4w5 so/sp for instance.

 

[Qlip]

So if I'm reading the responses correctly, So's are actually best at least at being 'socially palatable'.

 

[Elfboy]

Or at least, more likely to leave a genuine impression since they lack the typical constraints that insecure So-doms usually put themselves through?

in my experience, no

 

[OrangeAppled]

I'm crap at it, but some of it's introversion, e4w5, shyness & just me being crap at it (& frequently not caring or seeing it).
When made aware of it, it seems people are offended or annoyed because they think I do know the protocol & am purposely being ornery or something. Or they think I am stupid of sorts (not quick to catch onto the protocol - true). I don't get points for being "authentic". It looks more subversive or awkward, I guess.

 

[The Great One]

Hmm, I kinda relate to this too though. I'm darkside so/sx though (weaker so stronger sx than usual), and I think it's just that sx wants to zone in on something which is why we come off as drifty or awkward. I dunno, I can get kinda either energized from group interaction when the people stimulate me enough and I feel satisfied with the interaction or I can get kinda down if the conversation was dominated by other people and I didn't really get to pull anything from it. Even in a really small group (3 people, the closest thing to 1-on-1 without not being 1-on-1), I remember going to the gym the other day with two of my friends (xxFJ so/sp girl, ESFJ either so/sx or so/sp guy - he's basically all social and nothing else haha I should start a typing thread for him) and I had to repeat myself FOUR times until the ESFJ guy stopped interrupting me right as I started saying something. Thank god I had the gym to channel my negative energy into after that.

I know The Great One kept pushing the fact onto me that I liked my cliques because I was so/sx, but really all I care about doing is building relationships. I personally prefer 1-on-1 interaction because it allows me to show all sides of who I am rather than just one, which is what group interaction forcibly limits you too a lot of the time. With just one person, I can show my serious sides and share more meaningful sentiments, while also feeling more free to have fun and do what I want without being collectively judged. If you're in a group to socialize, all you can really do is go with the flow (I mean, you can suggest things but it has to be judged by the whole group which is kinda terrible) unless you REALLY want/need to do something else - in that case you just leave them all to do their own thing.

The extraverted social doms are very good at socializing. However, the so/sx types are better at socializing just for the sake of hanging out. The so/sp are the classic "networkers". Then the social first introverts tend to just notice social patterns, groups, and social dynamics. These people are not "social" in the literal sense.

 

[Lady_X]

nah, i think soc-doms are the gifted ones there. as sx/sp, i excel in one-on-one interactions. in a group, i often feel kinda weird and drifty if i don't have a person to like buddy up with. in other words, i'm less 'natural' or 'genuine' in big groups, and give off the impression that i'm either shy/quiet or aloof. one-on-one, i don't think i come off as either. i'm more confident and more engaged.

yeah...i think i often come off as aloof in large groups....unless i've had too much vino or something.

 

[The Great One]

Just to address the sincerity and genuineness thing... I feel a huge drive to be sincere and genuine about how I relate with people. It's my lifeblood; nothing means more to me than heart-to-heart relating with other people. The Social variant does not cloud the desire to be one's own true self when relating with others.

I do totally agree that Soc-last relating might be more "pure" in terms of less changing of communication to match the situation, but the way I look at it, the changes I do make to my communication to suit the environment make it so that I get my intentions across better. I see it like translating... I know that what I mean in my mind and heart and what someone else might interpret could be different, so I try to change my wording or approach so they can understand my true meaning better. This might impact the "purity" of my initial language, but it might also get my point across to them better, which means that the core meaning gets preserved better.

When Social-lasts communicate, I think there can be more misunderstanding on the receiving end because the Social-last hasn't done as much to "translate" their communication into a form that others can readily receive. So to me it's odd when people say that Social-doms are not being authentic, because the whole reason we do change our communication is to be authentic. We just have such a heightened consciousness of our external social environment that we tend to see all the different ways in which our messages and meanings could get misinterpreted, and we feel like we need to account for that when we attempt to reach across the gaps between ourselves and others. But of course we tend to over-compensate, and would do better to be a little more chill about it.

To come around to the OP question... I actually would wager that it's Social-seconds who are the most fluid in social interaction. They can see enough of what Social-doms see that they can account for it too but they don't get all hung up on it like we do. Soc-lasts seem to have a bit of an "edge" to their interactions, IME, that can be a bit confusing or isolating to others. Soc-seconds still go about their own business socially and don't obsess but they soften that "edge" a bit.

Which is not at all to down Soc-lasts - their strength being the unfiltered purity of their communication. I suspect some of my favorite poets and musicians are Social-lasts.

Yeah I change myself to fit my environment as well. However, as a sx/so I change just enough to not be seen as WAY TOO different from everyone else. I am not as concerned with fitting in as the social doms often are.

nah, i think soc-doms are the gifted ones there. as sx/sp, i excel in one-on-one interactions. in a group, i often feel kinda weird and drifty if i don't have a person to like buddy up with. in other words, i'm less 'natural' or 'genuine' in big groups, and give off the impression that i'm either shy/quiet or aloof. one-on-one, i don't think i come off as either. i'm more confident and more engaged.

I also do the "buddy up" thing as well. I tend to be quite social in the literal sense and start chatting with everyone until I find someone or just a few people that I connect really strongly with and then just stay with them. Often times I will switch though, and go from working the social field, to being with my special person or special persons. Then vice versa.

 

[Ginkgo]

Or at least, more likely to leave a genuine impression since they lack the typical constraints that insecure So-doms usually put themselves through?

Instincts are just primal urges. They don't amount to skill. They subvert the rational thought necessary to plan. It's to be expected that, through trial and error, people gain more skills to complement, subdue, and serve their instincts though. The point is that just because someone wants something doesn't mean they're good at getting it.