[Type 4] 4s needing support from 8s?

[Azure Flame]

In the compatibility articles on 4 and 8, a couple of them mention that 4s rely on 8s for support. What does this mean? Does anyone have any good examples?

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

May I ask you a couple questions DJ?

 

[Azure Flame]

May I ask you a couple questions DJ?

um what? lol

is that your example?

I have a client who pays me to talk about me and my problems. it makes no sense. Im researching codependency at the moment.

 

[Amargith]

From what I recall, 4s look to 8s for mastery of the physical realm. 8s look to 4s to gain a glimpse into the one realm they can never conquer - the emotional one.

Concretely, ime, this comes down to the 8 basically going big protector on the 4, while the 4 gives the snarly beast inside a cookie and a warm nest to crash. Iow, we're not afraid of that snarly beast inside of you that you use to terrorise others, or that others perceive as big and scary despite your best efforts to reign it in. We see it for what it is - lonely, misunderstood and a love bug at heart. All it needs is some kind words, a calm environment to unwind, a cookie for good behaviour and someone to love it for who it is. And when you do get confused and want to repress feelings with actions, we can either dispel that anger within you or temporarily suspend the need to act on it, take away that need to suppress what lies beyond the anger and make it ok to just be confused for a bit while you work things out. There is not always a need for action. It is amazing what you can accomplish when you're soothed out of the need to act on those feelings and just...acknowledge them, and realise how they could actually benefit you in another way. You're quite good at it too, given the right encouragement.

Meanwhile, you tend to automatically protect us when we hesitantly navigate the world - the simplest things for you can be challenging to us. Your unwavering loyalty and patience with us makes us feel brave enough to actually try the stuff that comes so easy to you, yet can be so scary to us. You make us feel like we can fix that broken-ness inside of us. You lift the shame, temporarily, that we feel, due to the way you look at us, believe in us and empower us to be what we can be if we just believe for a moment. You force our focus on the actual problem in a realm that we don't naturally focus on, which is what makes all the other stuff that was hindering us in our head, fall away. And your direct and blunt honest feedback gives us a break from having to decipher whether people mean what they say to us or not. You'll often be honest, without being judgmental - provided we respect one another and have a bond that way. It gives us the raw emotional feedback that we can use to build ourselves up with - to counter the self-doubt. It also often gives us concrete building blocks to work with - things we knew were there, but could not put our finger on, which actually concretely help alleviate the issues we're experiencing.

 

[small.wonder]

I just revisited some of the 4 + 8 combination descriptions, yeah eeeep (so so good, and so so horrible). I pulled this from the Enneagram Institute site:

"But there are trade-offs: Fours tend to depend on the Eight's practicality and ability to protect and provide for them , whereas Eights tend to depend on the Four's sensitivity and mysterious sense of challenge—the Four's emotional life and heart may be one world that the Eight cannot easily conquer."

I think that sums it up unless you have more specific questions.
[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] I understand what you're trying to say but I don't resonate with the head patting or "cookie giving". The 8's I've known wouldn't take too kindly to such patronizing. For me it's been about a sense of feeling "met" and deep trust in letting the 8 be strong in my weak areas (the social realm, reality, etc.) and them allowing me to fill their weak spots (emotionality, introspection, imagination). I guess it's a bit different for me personally too because of the 8 in my tritype-- I'm not as weak or incapable as your description portrays. This has caused issues with some 8's and drawn me closer to others, though I'm not sure what that depends on.

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

um what? lol

is that your example?

No. I was being serious.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

No...I can respect some 8s if they are healthy, but most of them actually scare me. I can't imagine working with an 8. I think most of them would be pretty good at hurting 4's feelings without even realizing it.

 

[Amargith]

I just revisited some of the 4 + 8 combination descriptions, yeah eeeep (so so good, and so so horrible). I pulled this from the Enneagram Institute site:

"But there are trade-offs: Fours tend to depend on the Eight's practicality and ability to protect and provide for them , whereas Eights tend to depend on the Four's sensitivity and mysterious sense of challenge—the Four's emotional life and heart may be one world that the Eight cannot easily conquer."

I think that sums it up unless you have more specific questions.

[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] I understand what you're trying to say but I don't resonate with the head patting or "cookie giving". The 8's I've known wouldn't take too kindly to such patronizing. For me it's been about a sense of feeling "met" and deep trust in letting the 8 be strong in my weak areas (the social realm, reality, etc.) and them allowing me to fill their weak spots (emotionality, introspection, imagination). I guess it's a bit different for me personally too because of the 8 in my tritype-- I'm not as weak or incapable as your description portrays. This has caused issues with some 8's and drawn me closer to others, though I'm not sure what that depends on.

It was a figure of speech - a metaphor. To me, 8s are big gentle guard dogs that everyone else fears. And I wouldn't dream of disrespecting them by patronising them.

But it is exactly what I'm talking about actually - 8s jump the moment they feel like their vulnerability will be used against them. If it's in your tritype, perhaps that's why you responded to it. At the same time, I enjoy seeing that side of them and creating a safe space where they can be that careless sweet puppy they are inside - where they don't have to be on the job of guarding against the world. I realise this is something they hide from the world because it is so easily taken advantage of, so I'm aware of the gift it is when they do reveal their underbelly to me, so to speak.

My description portrayed no weakness or incapability. It described the most beautiful and precious part of an 8, to me, at least. The part where they have the courage to be that vulnerable with someone, and actually ask for your help and place their trust in you. And what kind of person would I be if I were to look down on them for such beauty and courage, or consider them weak or incapable for it?


....better?

 

[small.wonder]

[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION]

I think you may have misread what I wrote, which is understandable considering the way I wrote it. I didn't say I found your description of 8's to be too weak or incapable, but your description of us as 4's.

I guess it's a bit different for me personally too because of the 8 in my tritype-- I'm not as weak or incapable as your description portrays. This has caused issues with some 8's and drawn me closer to others, though I'm not sure what that depends on.

I quite agree about 8's having a warm and caring center and it absolutely needs to be valued when shown. I as a 4 am just not as hesitant or needy as you make 4's out to be in the 2nd paragraph of your original post.

 

[Amargith]

[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION]

I think you may have misread what I wrote, which is understandable considering the way I wrote it. I didn't say I found your description of 8's to be too weak or incapable, but your description of us as 4's.



I quite agree about 8's having a warm and caring center and it absolutely needs to be valued when shown. I as a 4 am just not as hesitant or needy as you make 4's out to be in the 2nd paragraph of your original post.

I'm sx-so, so it was written with that in mind. My sp is notoriously lacking. It's not about being hesitant or needy - it's about addressing things that come less easily to you and that you can do more readily when given the space, assurance and guidance from someone who is familiar with that stuff and kicks ass at it.

I also have no problem admitting that that is what I'm hesitant about - doing things that are outside my comfort zone and I described what that was for me. Especially compared to 8s, I'm not going to hold up in those areas. Perhaps yours lies elsewhere. It's interesting to see though that you read such an admittance as needy,hesitant, weak and incapable, as I consider myself none of those things - just human, with my strengths and weaknesses like anyone else. I see no problem in being honest about them either.