[Traditional Enneagram] How to Help Other Enneagram Types

[Z Buck McFate]

From this page. What do you think about the suggestions listed for your type? Are there any suggestions you'd add?

When I consider people I'm close to of the different types, I'd say these were pretty good for most of them. And I thought the e5 suggestions rang pretty true for me (the e4 suggestions are strong periphery needs as well).


Type 1
-Encourage me to go easy on myself and to take time for myself.
-Provide me with a nonjudgmental viewpoint.
-Remind me that the goal in life is to be human, not to be without fault.

Type 2
-Appreciate my independent self instead of being seduced by or dependent on the help I give.
-Pay attention to my real needs and ask about them.
-Reinforce me for saying no when appropriate.
-Express appreciation for my giving.

Type 3
-Encourage me to pay attention to feelings and relationships.
-Show me you care for me for who I am, not for what I have accomplished.
-Be supportive when I tell you what is really true for me.
-Let me know what is really important to you.
-Remind me to slow down and smell the roses.

Type 4
-Encourage me to keep my attention on what is positive in the present.
-Honor my feelings and my idealism.
-Reveal your real feelings and true reactions.
-Let me see that you really understand me instead of trying to change me.

Type 5
-Respect my need for privacy and space.
-Make clear distinctions between your requests and your demands.
-Provide moderate feedback about your own feelings and concerns.
-Encourage me to be self-disclosing and to express my feelings in the here and now.
-Appreciate my sensitivity.
-Appreciate my ability to life and let live.

Type 6
-Be consistent and trustworthy with me.
-Be self-disclosing and encourage me to be self-disclosing.
-Counter my doubts and fears with positive and reassuring alternatives that are realistic.

Type 7
-Support me when I slow down and stick with my commitments.
-Let me know what and how important your own needs and wants are.
-Encourage me to deal with pain, fear, and restlessness rather than escaping from these feelings.
-Help me keep things simple and in the present.

Type 8
-Stand your ground.
-Stay firm.
-Be forthright.
-Speak your own truth.
-Provide feedback about my impact on you.
-Support me when I reveal softer feelings and vulnerabilities.

Type 9
-Encourage me to express my own position.
-Ask me what I want and what is good for me, and give me time to figure out the answer.
-Support me when I act responsibly toward myself.
-Allow me to acknowledge my anger.
-Encourage me to set and keep my own boundaries, limits, priorities.

 

[blurry]

Very cool.

I'd say the last point for the nine could go for the two as well - especially about helping set boundaries.
And I'm not completely sure about those first points for the 8, they sound just like descriptions of how 8s try to act in the world, although mirroring someone's behaviour can always be a helpful thing for a person to see. I think the last point for the 8 nails it, to help them open their heart up a bit and put down their sword for a while.

 

[HongDou]

Type 6
-Be consistent and trustworthy with me.

Yes.

-Be self-disclosing and encourage me to be self-disclosing.

Yes. I feel more connected with someone when we're self-disclosing with each other. Although I'm usually a pretty open person, I guess it's the negative parts of me I don't really often go to people about so that's probably the part that needs encouragement.

-Counter my doubts and fears with positive and reassuring alternatives that are realistic.

I'm generally a positive person but I do have my doubts sometimes. Most - if not all - of the time when I go to people with my insecurities I'm not looking to hear reassurance that things will go okay (I don't need that since I am already a huge optimist; it actually pisses me off a little when people give me this response because it feels like they're doubting my capacity for hope), but realistic possibilities that could happen in the future or ways I can easiest deal with something that I'm worried could happen so it's the bold part I see as most important. When I'm anxious about something I like being equipped with ammo for gunning down potential problems if they arise.

Type 7
-Support me when I slow down and stick with my commitments.

Yes, or maybe encourage me to slow down and stick with something from the start.

-Let me know what and how important your own needs and wants are.

Totally true. If you don't tell me what you need or want I'll just be in my own bubble. Once you tell me I can be more vigilant, but if you act like everything's fine then I will too.

-Encourage me to deal with pain, fear, and restlessness rather than escaping from these feelings.

Yeah, my mom did this a lot with me in high school when I felt like just giving up on assignments. Actually she would do some assignments for me sometimes when I got too sleepy. But yes, try to stop me from running away from things I don't want to deal with. I'm actually struggling with this in college right now, I have no one to sit me down and tell me to work. I have no sense of self-discipline at all so my GPA is at the lowest it's ever been in my academic career. I need a 3.0 by the end of the year to keep my scholarship and I got a 2.9 this semester. Let's hope I can get my ass in gear next semester.

-Help me keep things simple and in the present.

Mmmyes. I kind of simultaneously act in the future and in the present at the same time, it's hard to explain. Like trying to cover my bases that potentially don't even need to be covered. I need someone to remind me to just deal with things as they come.

Overall, I think this was pretty good.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

And I'm not completely sure about those first points for the 8, they sound just like descriptions of how 8s try to act in the world, although mirroring someone's behaviour can always be a helpful thing for a person to see.

Yes, it does read a bit more like a description of them than a suggestion on how to be supportive. My ex-husband is an 8- as well as a friend I grew up with- and I *think* they'd sorta resent people not standing up for themselves because it doesn't feel good to steamroll people? They wouldn't outwardly feel remorse, they'd get defensive instead (e.g. "I refuse to feel bad because <blah blah blah>"). But when people stand their ground, there's nothing to get defensive about.

 

[blurry]

Yes, it does read a bit more like a description of them than a suggestion on how to be supportive. My ex-husband is an 8- as well as a friend I grew up with- and I *think* they'd sorta resent people not standing up for themselves because it doesn't feel good to steamroll people? They wouldn't outwardly feel remorse, they'd get defensive instead (e.g. "I refuse to feel bad because <blah blah blah>"). But when people stand their ground, there's nothing to get defensive about.

Interesting. I know that friendship is very important to an 8, and I would think the values they'd look for in their friends are people who are other 'strong-minded no-nonsense kind of people' - who stand up for themselves etc.. Like you see all these rap guys, who are often 8s, and although they can be very dismissive to the people they consider 'on the other side' - they have very strong ties to their friends around them, like a gang.

On the other hand, my older brother is an 8, and sometimes if I'm confrontational to something he says he gets downright defensive and acts persecuted. Sometimes the only way is to let it go. Standing up for yourself may actually be a good way of behaving with an 8, but confronting them back with the energy they sometimes aggressively put out there can lead to trouble, it seems.

 

[valaki]

Hey pretty nice stuff!


Type 7

-Support me when I slow down and stick with my commitments.

I don't really have a problem with slowing down but sure, paying more attention to some responsibilities would be good. No idea though what kind of support I'd need for that, I mean, my mother used to say some such stuff to me but it was in one ear out the other, I just did those tasks when I decided to finally do it (or will do it )


-Let me know what and how important your own needs and wants are.

Yes. I'm not a mind reader.


-Encourage me to deal with pain, fear, and restlessness rather than escaping from these feelings.

Well no, I can encourage myself fine to deal with issues, I don't need to hear this sort of stuff from anyone.


-Help me keep things simple and in the present.

I'm already in the present


Type 8

-Stand your ground.

Yes, please!


-Stay firm.

Yeah I guess fine, but sometimes it would be easier if not hahah


-Be forthright.

Yes, that's good!


-Speak your own truth.

Of course


-Provide feedback about my impact on you.

Yes, this would be very good. Just please not in such generic terms such as "you're intimidating", or "your style is too tough"
I have heard these before but need a bit more specifics I think...


-Support me when I reveal softer feelings and vulnerabilities.

Uh, I guess, but what exactly is meant by support here? I can't really imagine this scenario tbh

And I'm not completely sure about those first points for the 8, they sound just like descriptions of how 8s try to act in the world, although mirroring someone's behaviour can always be a helpful thing for a person to see. I think the last point for the 8 nails it, to help them open their heart up a bit and put down their sword for a while.

It's not about mirroring, it's about being able to even communicate.

That last point is pretty vague to me, isn't it to you?

Yes, it does read a bit more like a description of them than a suggestion on how to be supportive. My ex-husband is an 8- as well as a friend I grew up with- and I *think* they'd sorta resent people not standing up for themselves because it doesn't feel good to steamroll people? They wouldn't outwardly feel remorse, they'd get defensive instead (e.g. "I refuse to feel bad because <blah blah blah>"). But when people stand their ground, there's nothing to get defensive about.

It doesn't feel good steamrolling someone too easily because then I'm suddenly left with nothing to interact with Or if it's about a problem that I want to discuss/sort with the other party and they just respond like that, that is, they can't take my style etc, then it's a pain in the ass because then the problem can't be solved.

I guess you are right about the feeling remorse vs being defensive thing too.

Interesting. I know that friendship is very important to an 8, and I would think the values they'd look for in their friends are people who are other 'strong-minded no-nonsense kind of people' - who stand up for themselves etc.. Like you see all these rap guys, who are often 8s, and although they can be very dismissive to the people they consider 'on the other side' - they have very strong ties to their friends around them, like a gang.

I don't necessarily need my friends to be 'strong-minded no-nonsense kind of people'. It's okay but I sometimes like people of quite the opposite kind too: soft, feely, whatever. I don't actually have a strong preference for friends to be the tough no-nonsense type.

Oh and crappy stereotype about rap guys.

On the other hand, my older brother is an 8, and sometimes if I'm confrontational to something he says he gets downright defensive and acts persecuted. Sometimes the only way is to let it go. Standing up for yourself may actually be a good way of behaving with an 8, but confronting them back with the energy they sometimes aggressively put out there can lead to trouble, it seems.

What sort of things does he get defensive about like this?

Trouble, depends how you define trouble *shrug*

 

[blurry]

-Support me when I reveal softer feelings and vulnerabilities.

Uh, I guess, but what exactly is meant by support here? I can't really imagine this scenario tbh

To me, it's about how 8's are essentially denying that they have any weakness or vulnerability when they portray themselves as tough. It seems imperative to the growth of an 8 for them to allow their feelings of weakness - however much they want to be avoided - and openly allow them to unfold. Of course this seems like a very individual process - but helping to establish an open environment where softer emotions can be felt seems like a healthy thing to do.

Oh and crappy stereotype about rap guys.

I'm not so sure...of course it's a generalization but that whole culture seems quite 8ish to me.

What sort of things does he get defensive about like this?

Trouble, depends how you define trouble *shrug*

My brother and I got into a bit of an argument one time about humanity - he was saying how humans haven't evolved very much from a tribal, kill-or-be-killed way of living, and how it motivates everything we do. I was saying I thought that was true to a certain extent - but our consciousness has evolved from those times to more subtle points of living. When I didn't accept his point of view, it was like he completely shut down - he became white in the face, said 'this is bullshit' and left the room. Sure, it was just an argument, but not the best outcome for a conversation - I think it was a point he felt very strongly about...

 

[valaki]

To me, it's about how 8's are essentially denying that they have any weakness or vulnerability when they portray themselves as tough. It seems imperative to the growth of an 8 for them to allow their feelings of weakness - however much they want to be avoided - and openly allow them to unfold. Of course this seems like a very individual process - but helping to establish an open environment where softer emotions can be felt seems like a healthy thing to do.

Yea I get that, but how do you imagine establishing such an environment?

I'm not so sure...of course it's a generalization but that whole culture seems quite 8ish to me.

I didn't say it wasn't 8ish, just don't like stereotypes.

My brother and I got into a bit of an argument one time about humanity - he was saying how humans haven't evolved very much from a tribal, kill-or-be-killed way of living, and how it motivates everything we do. I was saying I thought that was true to a certain extent - but our consciousness has evolved from those times to more subtle points of living. When I didn't accept his point of view, it was like he completely shut down - he became white in the face, said 'this is bullshit' and left the room. Sure, it was just an argument, but not the best outcome for a conversation - I think it was a point he felt very strongly about...

Interesting. Btw I don't agree with his view, a lot of people just are not like that. Sure, other people are more motivated by these things. Also this about it motivating everything we do, I don't agree there either, there's so many activities that are not related to survival. E.g. if I read a book or think about concepts, that's not really related to it, is it... I would sum all this up by saying that we have a brain that evolved to be more complex than that... it's no longer about just survival. We got more efficient at getting food/etc and the rest of our time is spent with other, totally unrelated bs Well ok, in certain countries life is probably not as comfortable as in our western countries, and even here it isn't for some people.

And heh I remember now I argued with someone else over something similar recently (he typed as 8 too). He got into ad hominem attacking after a while and then just shut up after that so it all became pointless *shrug*

 

[brainheart]

double weirdness.

 

[brainheart]

The four one definitely works for me, especially:

-Reveal your real feelings and true reactions.
-Let me see that you really understand me instead of trying to change me.

 

[Azure Flame]

Type 8
-Stand your ground.
-Stay firm.
-Be forthright.
-Speak your own truth.
-Provide feedback about my impact on you.
-Support me when I reveal softer feelings and vulnerabilities.

It would seem this is the issue I face frequently. I wish there was some way to force people to understand. Perhaps this is the part of life that cannot be controlled. When an E7 settles down and commits to something, there are always going to be those people who have to comment on how this is inconsistent in their behavior. When I open up and become vulnerable, there are people who have to comment on how this is inconsistent in my behavior. Palmer once said, "If an 8 backs down, NEVER rub it in his face that you are the winner. Go about your business as if it didn't happen, and when you look back you will see the 8 in full support."

Life is frustrating.

 

[Amargith]

Awesome list. 4 is spot on for me, and 3 and 8 show me why I tend to jive with those two types pretty well

 

[Z Buck McFate]

It would seem this is the issue I face frequently. I wish there was some way to force people to understand. Perhaps this is the part of life that cannot be controlled. When an E7 settles down and commits to something, there are always going to be those people who have to comment on how this is inconsistent in their behavior. When I open up and become vulnerable, there are people who have to comment on how this is inconsistent in my behavior. Palmer once said, "If an 8 backs down, NEVER rub it in his face that you are the winner. Go about your business as if it didn't happen, and when you look back you will see the 8 in full support."

Life is frustrating.

Yeah, it's funny- people tend to show support in the only way they know how....what makes them feel supported themselves.

That's why this list really kind of stood out to me as some super helpful cheat sheet. When I stopped to consider the people I know, added their type to the equation- these really do seem like the best ways to support those people. It almost made me want to kick myself for not having made this cheat sheet for myself sooner (though this is better than something I could have come up with on my own).

 

[Forever_Jung]

It would seem this is the issue I face frequently. I wish there was some way to force people to understand. Perhaps this is the part of life that cannot be controlled. When an E7 settles down and commits to something, there are always going to be those people who have to comment on how this is inconsistent in their behavior. When I open up and become vulnerable, there are people who have to comment on how this is inconsistent in my behavior. Palmer once said, "If an 8 backs down, NEVER rub it in his face that you are the winner. Go about your business as if it didn't happen, and when you look back you will see the 8 in full support."

Life is frustrating.

I kinda know whatcha mean! IRL, I'm very upbeat and playful most of the time, but sometimes I want to express negative emotions (sadness/anger). So whenever I work up the courage to express myself like that, people inevitably will comment: WHOA! Aren't you always happy? HEY EVERYBODY! Jeremy's sad! Gather around!

 

[skylights]

Lol, yes. And sometimes when I make a hard-line decision, people question it. I'm like, okay, I finally did it right, why are you making me doubt this!?

For Type 6, I'm not sure "Be self-disclosing and encourage me to be self-disclosing" and "Be consistent and trustworthy with me" are helpful to me personally so much as they are guidelines for having a good relationship with me. If someone is not like that, it doesn't really hurt me, I'm just not likely to voluntarily interact with them very much, or trust them with anything significant.

"Counter my doubts and fears with positive and reassuring alternatives that are realistic" is spot-on, though!

I would also say for Type 6:
- Gently encourage me if I am resistant or reluctant.
- Affirm my good decisions and my ability to choose well.
- Support me when I'm navigating an unexpected situation.
- Try to be patient if I am slow to respond. I take time to acclimate. It is not an indicator of how I feel about you.

At least for me personally the key is for someone else to be warm and supportive. Things become so much easier to deal with when I feel like I have someone positive and unwavering beside me. It helps ease the fear of being abandoned and the fear of everything falling apart.

Type 9
-Encourage me to express my own position.
-Ask me what I want and what is good for me, and give me time to figure out the answer.
-Support me when I act responsibly toward myself.
-Allow me to acknowledge my anger.
-Encourage me to set and keep my own boundaries, limits, priorities.

These are good to know.

 

[five sounds]

I kinda know whatcha mean! IRL, I'm very upbeat and playful most of the time, but sometimes I want to express negative emotions (sadness/anger). So whenever I work up the courage to express myself like that, people inevitably will comment: WHOA! Aren't you always happy? HEY EVERYBODY! Jeremy's sad! Gather around!

+ 1

 

[Starry]

Type 6
-Be consistent and trustworthy with me.

I'm attempting to start my first response here and I'm already over-thinking the whole thing haha. Umm I don't see myself as an individual that requires a great deal of consistency in anything really...but trust is paramount to me. Trust, honesty, honor, loyalty, integrity, valor <-these all caused me to mistype as a 6 so yah. Possess those qualities please.


-Be self-disclosing and encourage me to be self-disclosing.

^^this surprises me some because I feel like I often see just the opposite out of e6 (phobics only though - this doesn't apply to cps)...over-disclosure followed by paranoia at having said too much. But perhaps I'm misunderstanding something. My ex used to try to encourage me to disclose less haha. I disclose what I want to whom and have never suffered for it that I am aware of and do not feel I need encouragement in this area either way.


-Counter my doubts and fears with positive and reassuring alternatives that are realistic.

Every once and a great while I'll become especially weirded-out by something and in those moments it's certainly calming to have someone there to help put things back into perspective for me. But for the most part everything's kinda weird and surreal to me and just having someone to laugh with at it all...that's truly what I find to be the most beneficial to my wellbeing.


Type 7
-Support me when I slow down and stick with my commitments.

I don't need any support in order to slow down as I can do that all by myself! But I do require ongoing micro-managing with regards to all commitments as I was unable to learn this type of autonomy in childhood #ENFJ mother


-Let me know what and how important your own needs and wants are.

^^Of all the forms of support this is by far the most important to me. I care so deeply about the people in my life but being lost to possibilities 24/7 I'm really not good at predicting, reading, understanding what my loved ones need and/or want out of me. As a general rule, I fail to live up to all expectations but...if I love you...I can quite easily follow your directions.


-Encourage me to deal with pain, fear, and restlessness rather than escaping from these feelings.

It's funny because I'm truly never bored or restless...I've never been like this. But I do become confused with regards to emotional pain...what it is that is upsetting me is nearly impossible for me to focus on and to have someone who will stay on me....priceless.


-Help me keep things simple and in the present.

Simple... meh. But I will love you forever if you quite frequently say to me "Starry! focus!"

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=7842]Z Buck McFate[/MENTION]

I just got a laugh out of "moderate feedback" haha.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

-Be self-disclosing and encourage me to be self-disclosing.

^^this surprises me some because I feel like I often see just the opposite out of e6 (phobics only though - this doesn't apply to cps)...over-disclosure followed by paranoia at having said too much. But perhaps I'm misunderstanding something. My ex used to try to encourage me to disclose less haha. I disclose what I want to whom and have never suffered for it that I am aware of and do not feel I need encouragement in this area either way.

I think this one is about building a base of trust that the other person isn’t saying one thing/doing another. (i.e. I'd guess it's more about quality of disclosure than quantity of disclosure.)

Hypothetical example: if I don’t like your broccoli raisin soup- even though it’s your brainchild and you're especially proud of it- I won't tell you I like it too unless I really do. Because not liking your broccoli raisin soup =/= not liking you. And reciprocally, if you don’t like my spam pistachio loaf- it’s okay to tell me the truth, I won’t take it personally and see it as some statement of how you feel about me.

 

[Starry]

I think this one is about building a base of trust that the other person isn’t saying one thing/doing another. (i.e. I'd guess it's more about quality of disclosure than quantity of disclosure.)

Hypothetical example: if I don’t like your broccoli raisin soup- even though it’s your brainchild and you're especially proud of it- I won't tell you I like it too unless I really do. Because not liking your broccoli raisin soup =/= not liking you. And reciprocally, if you don’t like my spam pistachio loaf- it’s okay to tell me the truth, I won’t take it personally and see it as some statement of how you feel about me.

I wonder if I need special support with Ni explanations... Because instead of reading and responding like a mature adult might...

I was like ZOMG BROCCOLI RAISIN SOUP AND SPAM PISTACHIO LOAF!!!1 And then I started googling for recipes...ahead of myself. I wasn't even fully aware of the fact I had abandoned the thread in search of totally cool food. I did find this and was so excited...but then disappointed to discover it's actually a recipe for salad. I'm assuming it was mistakenly labelled 'Broccoli Raisin Soup.' Majorly struck-out on Spam Pistachio Loaf though. <-Someday...I see this in all the finest restaurants. I'm not even kidding you I envisioned it haha.

Okay I get it. 'Self-disclosure' is a non-threatening way of saying 'tell it like it is.' <-Yah, the only time I would ever lie in order to save feelings would be if I was in a highly social situation. I'm actually unable to lie to intimates. I mean, I literally can't pull it off...but I wouldn't even try because I do feel it is my responsibility/duty to my intimates to be honest even if it is a sensitive area. I know of so many others that believe friendship/partnership is about being 100% agreeable and "supportive" at all times...but that goes against everything inside of me...everything I believe in. And frankly, I don't understand how that would even qualify as intimacy in the first place. Intimacy should not be cheapened by perpetual agreeableness haha.