[Type 5] ENFP 5???

[Avocado]

First, I am honest when I say that I have no idea what you are talking about with regards to a typo haha. If you typed something incorrectly...and I did the same...then I assure you those were two separate typos with only ENFP to bind them together.

You know, I don't believe you can be two types at the same time...but with all I've seen and heard I imagine there are some out there that do haha. Perhaps google that. But I will say I recently asked another member if an individual can possess merely a deux-type as opposed to a tri-type because I fail to make a connection with any of the 'guts.' The only thing that I sense as it pertains to me (not you my dear)...is a counterphobic wing will put me at e8...but I only experience 7w6 and 4w5 as well.

Here's the deal though...you are a Head-Type...and in no stretch of the imagination a Heart-Type. You are all ADhD & worry & coming undone at the seams ...just like every other Head-Type here with you on the planet.

I know you do the 7w6 escape thing. You and I are so different and yet there are these things I see in you that remind me so much of myself had I been a nice, friendly young person as well. There definitely comes a point when what you are used to doing for distraction can no longer manage all the pain you have built up...using distraction. And here is where many e7s turn to actual vice/addiction. You can feel so proud of yourself that this is not what you are doing but rather here...figuring it all out. I have so much respect for you Magic Qwan. You will get there...this I know.

Thank you!
I think when I can move off, I might be able to clear my head a little, too...
Remember my step-father...
After careful study of my situation, I can tie about 70% of my stress back to him...
I can tie 10% to my mother...
I can tie 10% to school...
I cannot tie 10% to anything specific...

If I could get away from him, maybe I'd feel better after a few days...
I was starting to feel better on the third day of the DESTINATION IMAGINATION GLOBAL OLYMPICS in KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE (Basically a competition for creative thinking, problem solving, art, and science...)...

...All good things must end, though...

 

[Starry]

A lot of ENFPs I've met seem hostile to the very idea of a 5.

So I'm guesing, no.

What/how do you mean msg? The statement you made here is just so opposite from what I would expect to see written.

 

[Starry]

haha!! oh god yeah for sure...see i don't do that at all but recognize it as 4ish. all of my reactions and instincts are 7, 2 and 9 ish. typically i distract...for a loooong time without knowing it....i may self sacrifice help others...forget about my stuff...or do nothing...be frozen...or mediate..compromise...but eventually i get sorta 5 ish (or maybe it's still 7) and detach...intellectualize...dissect...feel at peace with deep understanding of the greater significance/lesson etc.

never once did i sit in deep pain for any long period...i mean i hurt deeply...but i can't sit with it and explore it emotionally or intensify it

i mean...i am an sx...and there is mad intensity of emotion. it can feel like the most torturous broken heart movie...but what is going on feels much different than what goes on for a 4. you will not see my head lowered and defeated. i will not feel all woe is me...i will be like fuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkk yooooooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or feel like i've been hit with a thousand daggers to the heart...but it's quick and sudden and cuts...it's not a stewing of emotion.

does that makes any sense at all?

plus...starry knows way more about enneagram than i do...i just know me...and some other people. that's all i got. and as a 7 i don't relate to his experience of pain.

^^see it's hard for me to explain because what you wrote above is nearly identical to my entire experience my entire life... which I imagine is due to variant trumping all in a way...or being some kind of 'wild card' force (and no I do not know more about enneagram. Had you not been here writing about enneagram yourself I'd still be mistyped and imagining enneagram was bs. Because I was in a bad place when I first came here...I just know what these mistyped 7s are seeing and not seeing.)

As a 7w6 so/sp w/e4 -> [MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION] is going to carry around a lot of guilt...he will feel a great sense of responsibly...second-guessing his role in the negative things that occur in his life. It's the so/sp (depressed) version of e7s inclination to thinking we are *more powerful* than we are. And so yes...w/e4...it makes sense that MQ will actually sit with the pain. The problem is...is IF an e7 is 'sitting w/the pain' the chances are it's not the 'true pain' but rather a 'safe pain' are great. Not saying it's not painful...or has some basis in reality...but it's still merely a distraction. I see this plain as day in Stansmith as well. And so things really start to get confusing because there's a sense of...'I'm doing the work...I'm trying to solve my issues and nothing's working.' (<-you can see why these people don't get that they are 7s...if you are smart enough to use pain as your distraction from pain. I'm not saying they don't truly feel a sense of humility...but it's functioning as a way to deny all the ways they believe they're *Magic*. This is way oversimplified but it's easier enduring the pain of 'what's wrong with me'...than facing head on the pain of 'there's nothing wrong with you...you are just not magic or special...And the world is nothing like you had imagined and there's nothing you can magically do about it.')

For me as a 7w6 sx/sp w/4 -> I was avoiding the same 'you're not magic or entitled' pain...by focusing on the wrong pain...imagining how *special* I was in a totally humble way of course...And imagining how I would win/be victorious (<-without having to do anything.) We are sick, sick people.

 

[Starry]

Thank you!
I think when I can move off, I might be able to clear my head a little, too...
Remember my step-father...
After careful study of my situation, I can tie about 70% of my stress back to him...
I can tie 10% to my mother...
I can tie 10% to school...
I cannot tie 10% to anything specific...

If I could get away from him, maybe I'd feel better after a few days...
I was starting to feel better on the third day of the DESTINATION IMAGINATION GLOBAL OLYMPICS in KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE (Basically a competition for creative thinking, problem solving, art, and science...)...

...All good things must end, though...

I'm smiling/happy looking at that last line in your post. I was literally just talking to the member Zarathustra (if you know him) about this...

My INTJ father used to always say that to us kids...that 'All good things must come to an end...' And while I couldn't articulate it...it would throw me into a panic each and every time. Like, that is not something to be said to a young e7... And when I was a bit older I can remember a sense of 'oh no they fuckin don't! I will find a way to insure good times never end!' <-And while I'm still working out the kinks on that... I see it as a sign of health...you using that phrase

I like your plan there MQ.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

What/how do you mean msg? The statement you made here is just so opposite from what I would expect to see written.

I've just met people who seem to be ENFPs who believe it is important to have an attached attitude towards many things, vs. a detached attitude towards many things. Hence, a detached Enneagram 5 represents the antithesis of their worldview.

The most important thing, they seem to believe, is to have passion towards whatever they are doing.

This is the opposite of a Five. Fives are entirely out of step of what is important to an ENFP.

 

[Starry]

I've just met people who seem to be ENFPs who believe it is important to have an attached attitude towards many things, vs. a detached attitude towards many things. Hence, a detached Enneagram 5 represents the antithesis of their worldview.

The most important thing, they seem to believe, is to have passion towards whatever they are doing.

This is the opposite of a Five. Fives are entirely out of step of what is important to an ENFP.

Thank you msg. When I first read your message I was unable to tell if you meant 'were hostile to the very idea of 5s'...as in being them...or forming relationships with them. Since the answer is 'being them' I must say I agree. Again, thank you for the clarification.

 

[Stansmith]

This is a good example of a Ne-Dom 5

 

[Stephano]

[MENTION=18664]Stansmith[/MENTION] Who the heck is that guy? No, I'm nothing like that.

The most important thing, they seem to believe, is to have passion towards whatever they are doing.

Not everything. When something is really important to me, like a life goal I set myself, I'd do anything do reach this goal, no matter how hard it is.
But usually I'm more of a lazy ass.

 

[Nehtaro]

And so yes...w/e4...it makes sense that MQ will actually sit with the pain. The problem is...is IF an e7 is 'sitting w/the pain' the chances are it's not the 'true pain' but rather a 'safe pain' are great. Not saying it's not painful...or has some basis in reality...but it's still merely a distraction. I see this plain as day in Stansmith as well. And so things really start to get confusing because there's a sense of...'I'm doing the work...I'm trying to solve my issues and nothing's working.' (<-you can see why these people don't get that they are 7s...if you are smart enough to use pain as your distraction from pain. I'm not saying they don't truly feel a sense of humility...but it's functioning as a way to deny all the ways they believe they're *Magic*. This is way oversimplified but it's easier enduring the pain of 'what's wrong with me'...than facing head on the pain of 'there's nothing wrong with you...you are just not magic or special...And the world is nothing like you had imagined and there's nothing you can magically do about it.')

For me as a 7w6 sx/sp w/4 -> I was avoiding the same 'you're not magic or entitled' pain...by focusing on the wrong pain...imagining how *special* I was in a totally humble way of course...And imagining how I would win/be victorious (<-without having to do anything.) We are sick, sick people.

I am not sure if it is appropriate to bump such an old thread, but I stumbled here from a google search and have been so relieved.
[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], I created an account at this website just because of you. I have recently begun to understand and go through this exact process. In the past I have often done the 'explore the pain to find the truth and fix yourself' but in a way where the fix is a rationalization and the pain itself is a distraction from the true pain of 'you are not special.' Which can even be masked by a superficial 'oh yea totally, I'm no better than anyone else [except lowkey I am because I understand this]' type of false humility that I am prone to.
I also was perplexed at E7 descriptions, but have satisfied the discrepancy by explaining that I am a glutton for intellectual stimulation far more than physical stimulation. Once I made that 'replacement' in my mind, the descriptions began to make more sense... and as I read that E7 is related to a certain sort of narcissism, I explored myself and found it to be true.
Recently while doing more research I began to wonder, 'what if I am E5?' because I could not find any sort of description that matches me or my experience. Until this thread. So thank you very much and cheers!

 

[Starry]

I am not sure if it is appropriate to bump such an old thread, but I stumbled here from a google search and have been so relieved.
[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], I created an account at this website just because of you. I have recently begun to understand and go through this exact process. In the past I have often done the 'explore the pain to find the truth and fix yourself' but in a way where the fix is a rationalization and the pain itself is a distraction from the true pain of 'you are not special.' Which can even be masked by a superficial 'oh yea totally, I'm no better than anyone else [except lowkey I am because I understand this]' type of false humility that I am prone to.
I also was perplexed at E7 descriptions, but have satisfied the discrepancy by explaining that I am a glutton for intellectual stimulation far more than physical stimulation. Once I made that 'replacement' in my mind, the descriptions began to make more sense... and as I read that E7 is related to a certain sort of narcissism, I explored myself and found it to be true.
Recently while doing more research I began to wonder, 'what if I am E5?' because I could not find any sort of description that matches me or my experience. Until this thread. So thank you very much and cheers!

omg Nehtaro this post kinda makes my day...or, you know, maybe even my entire TypoC experience seeing that a.) someone actually understood something I wrote haha and b.) I've seen a hell of a lot of ENFP 4s and 5s over the years that were "far too deep and intellectual and not even remotely afraid of pain" to be an e7 that likewise (as strange as this may sound)...did not find enneagram to be all that beneficial to them personally. And so as someone that was mistyped myself and then having a total "I once was blind but now I see" experience after figuring it out I tried to explain it to others with what felt like little success...so it is so nice to learn someone got something out of the energy and hope I put in. Thank you.

A while back an ENFP that was obviously a 7 (though I never learned how they themselves typed if they knew anything about the enneagram in the first place) came to TypoC in order to ask about 'NFP Writers' in a way that I think really illustrates the lengths we will go to to dance around the entitlement...outwardly presenting with depth, conflict, chaos, agony, humanity, 4ness, 5ness...the real pain hidden from our view.

^They had arrived in a world of hurt because all they had ever wanted was to be a novelist. From the time they had been a child they had dreamed of growing up to write the next great novel and yet no matter how hard they tried they just couldn't do it and was experiencing grief and sorrow due to the fact they had failed/were failing. And so the primary question that this individual put forth was something along the lines of "What can I do to improve my writing?" <-To which members were responding with useful skill-building advice.

Now, if I had useful skill-building advice for writers that I could give without becoming bored out of mind my in the process of typing it out...Would I have given it to this ENFP? No, because it was instantly obvious to me that this wasn't what the person truly wanted because it wasn't even the issue in the first place. The elephant in the room for me was this ENFP's insistence that "NFPs are known to be naturally good at writing long novels" <-And there's the magic. There's the 5-alarm entitlement fire that I couldn't take my eyes off of or I would have left the thread without responding because I don't do practical advice that I need to write out in minutes, steps and routines. I think I may have started my reply with "Um wtf Dr. Seuss?"

We have a great deal of "ENFP 4s" that are comfortable with their own life's tragedy and experiencing in a prolonged way the pain of their failures...and a great deal of "ENFP 5s" that are realistic about what they can and cannot do and can let go of a dream when it is logical to do so because they are not gluttons and can go without...right.

It is easier for us to convince ourselves that we tried real hard and face the pain of being a total failure (which is a hollow, false pain for us really)...then it is to face the pain of not being entitled to things being easy for us when we want them to be easy for us. We need the magic.

 

[Avocado]

Hey Stephano,

As an ENFP e7 ... I don't feel right saying 'no' or 'never' or 'not possible' to anything. With regards to ENFP e5 though? I know there are enneagram amateurs and professionals that claim any MBTI/e-type combo is possible but I admit to having my doubts especially as it pertains to Pe-dominance and e5.
Okay I will admit to thinking this combination is not possible. I do not believe there are...any true ENFP or ENTP e5s.

What I do believe?

I believe the e7 descriptions are the absolute worst of all of the e-types...possibly combined (while we're on the topic of combos...) I believe an actual e7...over the age of 16 and new to enneagram...will read any one of the countless e7 descriptions out there and think... 1.) no, I'm nothing like Charlie Sheen... 2.) not like Robin Williams either huh...? 3.) no this isn't right...I'm sure as hell not happy all the time...I definitely become depressed and experience a good deal of pain and suffering. I think deeply on all subjects...and I have great compassion for others and the conditions of the world. I'm not addicted to meth, alcohol, sex or attention...I'm not the 'life of the party' - I fuckin hate crowded spaces. I must be an e4, 5 or 6.

Actual ENxPs that have matured will often be hard-pressed to see themselves in the e7 descriptions. Actual 7w6s will often be hard-pressed to see themselves in the e7 descriptions (in general they seem to be written with a 7w8 & Se bias.) But it is the ENxP that is over the age of 16-18 that has experienced some debilitating life circumstance/struggle that will be the most challenged of all to see themselves in the e7 descriptions. They will usually believe [edit: start to question if] they are INxPs... And/or if they have a 6 wing that is exaggerated at that time and they are experiencing a lot of anxiety and paranoia... they generally come to believe they are e6w7. Overactive 6 wing + stressful connection to e5...6w5. Some depression coupled with an over-focus on the self... e4w5.... Isolation, sobriety, hoarding time, energy, ideas and affection...

I have definitely seen a few ENFPs in my time that had their e-type listed as e5. I am of the opinion they were actually e7s starring down some of the shittiest descriptions known to man.

This is so true.

I’m just going to so glad when I can have a predictable life and I’m not beaten every day. I’ll finslly be free when I have my money mountain. Only a few more months!