After reading the backstory: I don't think "you deserved what you got", nor do I think that what she was doing was appropriate or excusable -- and at the same time, I think she had legitimate reason to be upset.
I find it kind of funny that you chose this example, which is so obviously colored by personal issues and relationship drama, to ask huge generalized questions about whether these two types can EVER be peaceful and happy together -- when, IMO, it's obvious that like [MENTION=13402]Saturned[/MENTION] said, any two types can be happy together, and type doesn't predict compatibility that well. Did you take a while to process the non-type-relatedness of your situation, or were you trying to find a typology-related excuse to vent, or what?
^ I don't mean for that to come across as harsh, so don't take it personally. I'm just confused, is all.
I imagine the difference is that a 1 is more particular about when it's when it's time to let loose and when it's time to knuckle down.
Yeah. Generally speaking, 1 = more focused and better at quickly and systematically Getting Shit Done -- especially SJ 1s, like me and like the ISFJ in question.
I know when my sister gets in that mindset it's when she's built up a lot of frustration over time and it just boils over - she can just unleash about every tiny negative thing that's been on her mind. I wouldn't take it as the literal demonstration of what she's feeling. I think with 1s, when they unleash they say a bunch of things they don't always mean, but once they're in that mode they can't really control it. They can definitely sound much more rigid and harsh than they really are.
I might actually disagree, a bit, on this point? Or at least, IME, it's more complicated.
Type 1 carries these judgments around constantly. The vast majority of the time, those judgments don't make us angry. They just sit there. The minority of the time, those judgments might make us angry, and if we lash out, we'll exclaim the judgments at others. After the fact, we'll feel horrible, but it won't be because we didn't mean it -- it'll be because we never should have said those judgments, and the judgments usually aren't that huge a deal.
A personal example: I have a few friends who flake out on things regularly. That isn't something I like, but usually I accept it, and schedule around it, assuming that they either won't show, or will be late. But this past fall, one of those friends totally took me aback by completely standing me up, choosing to eat by herself because she "needed to recharge" and without having the courtesy to tell me. I lashed out at her via text -- something along the lines of "I wish you'd have the courtesy of letting me know the next time you're going to ignore the plans we make" -- and then almost immediately apologized for lashing out at her, saying we could reschedule for some other time. Now, eight or so months later: I still think she's a flake, I still think it's ridiculous that she finds that behavior acceptable, but I regret how rudely I acted, and wished I could have made the conversation more constructive.
Also from what I have heard from my sister (and I often listen to her complaints about her friends), 1s get very frustrated with the 'clumsiness' of 7s. It's like to them, 7s sometimes seem like they're naively dawdling through life, making stupid decisions that are damaging to themselves and others, over and over again. This can be really upsetting for the 1s, in a way that can even be likened to offending to their sensibilities. They hate to see 7s make these bad decisions, especially when it they end up hurting themselves without realising that they are doing it. My sister loves her friends through all their faults, but often she wants to shake them and snap them out of it. Her anger at them is often just concern and frustration at not being able to help them be happy and healthy in life. I don't know, maybe I should call on my favourite 1w2 around here to verify this: do you agree [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]?
I have a friend who's an ENFP and I think tritype 378 -- strong 7 fix -- and the fact that I've been friends with her for so long, has trained me pretty well to deal with people who make their life decisions this way. I think it's also taught me that life is never as predictable and linear as a 1w2 would like to believe.
I do disapprove of some decisions she's made. For example: she doesn't want to go to college, and while that isn't something that I disapprove of in itself -- plenty of people do well without undergrad degrees -- I think that
1) Everything she could possibly want to do career-wise would benefit from college; and
2) Her reasons for not going ("I'm not meant for college") are almost definitely based on fear of college, fear of failure, and fear of boredom, but she's in denial about it.
I've told her how I feel, once or maybe twice. She knows my opinion, and will go off and do whatever she wants; she's a free spirit. In the meantime... There's a lot of wisdom in the Serenity Prayer, regardless of whether or not you're religious. When there's nothing I can do to stop her, there's no point in keeping on fighting to change her mind. It's a waste of energy.
I think that any 1 who has a big group of friends who disagree with them on key issues, has learned to accept this same philosophy. We do have an internalized "right" and "wrong" way of going about things, but at the same time, surrounding yourself with only people who agree with you becomes a bit cultish, and no one would be there to correct you if you did end up being wrong.
/tangent
This is not to say your friend was right to brow beat you and criticise your character so entirely. I think you really should tell her that you were very hurt by the way she spoke to you. Now that she's calmed down, you might be able to talk the whole situation through and sort it out (and get her to apologise!). Whatever you do, don't just drift away and not talk about it, as 7s are wont to do
. I don't mean to offend you, but it worries me to see how 7s will walk away and don't seek understanding of the factors in conflict/problem - it means they never get closure or learn something from it (even if it's that they shouldn't let people treat them like that). And the 1s I know would much rather have everything out in the open, even if it means you end up going your separate ways.
^ I 100% agree on this.
I will say, from the 1 perspective, my sister has these intense close friendships with 7s for a 2-3 years and then they eventually let her down. She can certainly be difficult too but it worries me to see how many of these really, lovely girls (I've know many of them well) end up causing a rift with her based on their fickleness, or because they effectively abandon her over some guy they become infatuated with. In the end, from her perspective, it's like they just eventually drive her away. Maybe for the 7s involved, they just got tired off her irritability, and those occasional critical and overbearing remarks.
This is really sad. Your sister is ESTJ, right? Which would mean that from both Enneagram and MBTI, she's extremely dedicated and doesn't have a hard time being loyal to friends. She's giving what she perceives to be an essential and not all that difficult thing -- commitment -- and not getting it at all in return.
(I know we're not all exactly alike, but it's a little hard for me to imagine a balls-to-the-wall 7 dawdling through life!)
To be fair: it's less dawdling through life, and more charging through life in completely random and possibly hedonistic directions. (Which is fine, but it takes a bit of a mindset adjustment for a 1 to understand!)
The thing that honestly baffles me, though, is the fact that my sex life is...well, mine, and I'm far from promiscuous. The event that catalyzed all of this (the mistake that I've made) does indeed involve her - and that's fair - but otherwise throughout our entire friendship there has been a pervasive attitude of extreme dislike toward my sexuality, which she has always periodically vocalized. I don't know, nitpicking my choices/natural state of existence seems kinda mean, particularly when she is unaffected.
1w2 wants to be helpful; they want to provide for people, they want to solve problems. If someone close to them is doing something they find objectionable, it IS their business, because it's their duty as a friend to help their friends when they need help. (See my ENFP example, earlier in the post.) If you were doing your math homework, your dad was a math professor, you were struggling to get it done, and your dad offered to help, would you be confused as to why he thought it was "his business"? It's not about business, it's about this process: They need help, I'm qualified to help them, I care about them, thus it is my duty to step in.
In fairness, I think your friend should let up. But if she's an average level 1, she may not be that great at picking her battles yet.
After considering this and reading about your sister...could this maybe be a way that type 1s express their love? If so, it seems almost like a parent-child relationship, as if the 1 is saying, "Oh, this girl will never learn! How many times do I have to clean up her messes for her?" There's an air of condescension there, but only because the 1 cares about the 7 and believes that showing them the "right" way will be good for the 7 in the long run. Hmm. The trouble is, "right" and "wrong" tend to ignore that fairly large grey area of subjectivity.
It is ABSOLUTELY a way of expressing love. (See my above quote.) I guess it's a little condescending? -- but I'd prefer the big sister-little sister metaphor. Parent-child assumes that the child is never really supposed to do anything in return. Big sister-little sister assumes that they're still technically peers, and they're still best friends forever. Confidantes. But the big sister has a duty to help and protect the younger one.
You're very right about my compulsion to run for the hills. I would like to think that she'd be open to talk with me again sometime, but I don't want to deal with another meltdown. Although, sadly, it sort of feels to me as though she's already aired every bit of discontent she could think of. I know that she doesn't hate me, that deep down a big piece of this is the result of her projecting her self-hatred onto others (1s are so critical of themselves, and this poor thing is emotionally bleeding from excessive castigation), but I'm hoping that it isn't so heavy and terrible that she's going to choose the termination of our communication.
It's tough because I'm not sure what the Fe 1w2 attitude would be, here. As a Te 1w2, I'd prefer to have a conversation about it, to talk about it once my emotions had calmed down -- I can guarantee that she's not going to flip out on you a second time to the same extent that she did before, though I understand why you'd be afraid of that possibility. But I don't "get" ISFJs, as much as I "get" my own type.
Maybe that's what it takes to make it work - a healthy 1 and a healthy 7, meeting somewhere in the middle, two complementary halves of an awesome friendship. (Without growth and maturity, perhaps they'd just consistently get on each other's nerves.)
Or a different type of average 1 and a different type of average 7. It depends too much on individual factors. (Once again, I agree with Saturned)
