[INFP] INFPs who want to be INFJs...

[Amargith]

I don't remember that part very clearly. I would imagine every type has been beaten up on around here at one time or another and most of us are going to remember when it happened to us more than when it happened to somebody else because humans are nasty self-absorbed creatures. I would imagine it's Sensors that get it the worst around here, overall, especially SJs.

Oh agreed. Sj-smacking seems to be a constant whereas other types get rotated. Tbh, I missed the whole INFJ bashing this time, I think. I havent been that active here lately, but in general I also think that when it aint your type that is being bashed you don't remember/experience/get as into it as you would if it is your type, so I'm sure that is a factor in this case as well. I know ENFJs have their sporadic moments where they get viciously targeted...and I sometimes wonder if that is coz they aint exactly highly represented here either. Like, there aint not that many people to speak up for them, much like the SJs. And the forum is mostly filled with introverted perceivers who prefer a different approach than ENFJs..which does not help I guess.

 

[cafe]

Oh agreed. Sj-smacking seems to be a constant whereas other types get rotated. Tbh, I missed the whole INFJ bashing this time, I think. I havent been that active here lately, but in general I also think that when it aint your type that is being bashed you don't remember/experience/get as into it as you would if it is your type, so I'm sure that is a factor in this case as well. I know ENFJs have their sporadic moments where they get viciously targeted...and I sometimes wonder if that is coz they aint exactly highly represented here either. Like, there aint not that many people to speak up for them, much like the SJs. And the forum is mostly filled with introverted perceivers who prefer a different approach than ENFJs..which does not help I guess.

Yeah. And it's almost always based on somebody being mad at somebody irl and taking it out on the entire type here, where they can semi-safely do so. I'd probably do it more myself if I had more confidence in my ability to type people. But then there is the thing where for every person of a particular type that bugs me, I have someone of the same type that I

 

[Typh0n]

I've been seeing this everywhere. There are too many INFPs who think they're INFJ because INFJs are, supposedly, rarer. INFPs want to feel special, therefore INFJ sounds more appealing.

There's also this common idea that INFJs are "better" because people think of them as these emotional/rational super hybrids. Whereas, INFPs are thought of as these silly/idealistic/hopeless romantics who have no logical processing abilities.

In order to make actual INFPs feel better about being an INFP (because it's not a bad thing FFS), what strengths do INFPs have that INFJs lack?

Haha, what a head trip.

 

[OrangeAppled]

[MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION].

Chant we with me INFPs:

We don't need no stinkin' INFJ badges - hell no!

Repeat x5

INFJs can be sticks in the mud sometimes. I think our senses of humor are better and we're less uptight.

Amen! The lack of sense of humor on INFJ forums is mind-boggling. And people think INFPs can be passive-aggressive.... well, you can cut that with a knife at an INFJ forum. Fi is so much more RAW and Ne is more playful than NiFe - there's just less tension & phony politeness with INFPs.

I'm not sure if this is the case on Typology Central, but in several INFJ communities I've observed, there seems to be an influx of INFPs who mistyped themselves. INFPs place great importance on their individuality; since INFJs have been recorded as the rarest of types, INFPs see that as a fitting label since they consider themselves to be unique.

INFJs have Ti, which is something that promotes a degree of impartiality on their part - and it's their tertiary, so it's not as though they're completely inept at it. Many INFJs are mistaken for INTJs due to this. INFPs, on the other hand, do not utilize Ti; instead, they have Te as their inferior (Te does not strive to internally understand logic, but rather, apply it externally). In short, since INFJs have tertiary thinking and INFPs have inferior thinking, people quickly jump to the conclusion that INFJs are more logical/reasonable. No one wants to be thought of as illogical, of course, so you have this group of INFPs who want to be INFJ because they believe them to be both more unique AND superior (I personally do not agree with this idea, but since there are INFPs who think that way, I believed it would be good to have a thread that highlighted the unique strengths of INFPs over INFJs).

This is what some INFJs want to believe. People supposedly want to be them because they are so speshial and rare. This belies an arrogance NO INFP wants. The issue here is thinking others want to be your type, not that they actually do. This says more about INFJs than INFPs.

Head over to an INFP forum and there is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less discussion on mistyping & rarity; INFPs have more of a "your real type is less important than your journey of self-discovery" attitude towards people questioning their type or obviously mistyped - which makes me puke patchouli smelling rainbows as I type it even as I know I have that attitude. The INFJ forums have extremely long threads which consist of witch hunts where they call out others for not being as INFJ as they are. And apparently, all mistyped people are INFPs (we're some kind of throw-all category for anyone questioning their type).

So which type is really more obsessed with speshial-ness? Hmmmm? Yeah, I thought so.

Now, the idea that INFJs are the demi-gods of MBTI is well-documented across the internet, but this does not make it so in real life & certainly does not make INFPs want to be them. Most of that is based on ideas people have of INFJs that are not sourced in Jungian theory or reality, but are just some mythologizing of the type. INFJs tend to not be as open about their failings & flaws like INFPs are, which perpetuates perceptions they are somehow better, unless more discerning people catch onto the arrogance & lack of self-examination in that tendency.

Again, there's an arrogance that goes along with thinking you're seen as flawless & worshipped that is repulsive to most INFPs. INFPs tend to enjoy a kind of absurdity that goes along with screwing it up.

Poor type descriptions tend to lead people to mistype, as well as not understanding themselves that well. Many INFP profiles are also very enneagram 9 heavy, which is alienating to other common enneatypes for INFPs. When people discuss INFP strengths, it frequently sounds like enneagram 9 strengths to me. Sometimes e4 or e6 traits are touched on, but it tends to be in terms of flaws.

We used to have that around here though, years ago. Then the INFPs were the overemotional, sensitive, whiny bunch with no practical skills and INFjs were treasured as altruistic and saint-like.

These days, much less so.

 

[Ginkgo]

We don't need no stinkin' INFJ badges - hell no!

We don't need no stinkin' INFJ badges - hell no!

We don't need no stinkin' INFJ badges - hell no!

We don't need no stinkin' INFJ badges - hell no!

We don't need no stinkin' INFJ badges - hell no!

We don't need no stinkin' INFJ badges - hell no!

 

[FemMecha]

This thread shows examples of what is best known as projectile imaginings.

I've actually debated between the two types since age 16, but in this context I never see INFJ talk shit about INFPs, but the reverse has been going on for years. I'm a charter member here from the time the site went live. I adore many INFPs here as well, but every time I've changed my type I come across a thread like this where someone or another is being a real heather, and it isn't any more humorous now than it was with the snot nosed brats in 7th grade who were absolutely snobs. That is how snobs communicate so if any of the INFPs or other types don't consider themselves to be bratty and snobbish, you need to change your communication style because you say mean shit about other people that is not warranted. Look at yourself. [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION].

 

[OrangeAppled]

This thread shows examples of what is best known as projectile imaginings.

I've actually debated between the two types since age 16, but in this context I never see INFJ talk shit about INFPs, but the reverse has been going on for years. I'm a charter member here from the time the site went live. I adore many INFPs here as well, but every time I've changed my type I come across a thread like this where someone or another is being a real heather, and it isn't any more humorous now than it was with the snot nosed brats in 7th grade who were absolutely snobs. That is how snobs communicate so if any of the INFPs or other types don't consider themselves to be bratty and snobbish, you need to change your communication style because you say mean shit about other people that is not warranted. Look at yourself. [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION].

I've seen it, here & other places. It's more veiled, but the insults are there; being disingenuous doesn't mean you're nicer. This thread topic itself is demeaning to INFPs. I am 100% comfortable in dealing with it flippantly.

All this comment does is reinforce the "INFJs have no sense of humor" observations....

I'm making observations, valid ones, even if unpleasant to hear. Other people can handle negative observations & criticism of their type without crying "meanie-head!". Implying I am a snob & bratty is not mean either? Come now... At least I don't attack individuals. I note patterns in types on message boards, general vibes of a group, not naming names nor even having any in mind.

If what I'm saying is not true at all, then address the argument, don't tear down the speaker. This is a common angle you take though, but Fe shaming isn't going to change my observations.

Are the witch hunt threads not there? Is there no passive-aggressiveness in INFJ communication? Is there no arrogance is not seeing flaws & failings in yourself or not accepting any criticism as valid? If you don't want to be seen that way, then maybe change your communication style.

 

[21%]

The INFJ forums have extremely long threads which consist of witch hunts where they call out others for not being as INFJ as they are.

[MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] -- You might want to know that INFJs are no longer perceived as nice, saintly people around here, but as 'pretentious', 'controlling', 'stubborn', 'know-it-all', 'high-strung' crazies, so we're at the receiving end of as much unwarranted flak as INFPs now. So people are kinda sensitive.

 

[Amargith]

Welcome to the rest of the plebs, INFJs, I guess. I do have to admit that I've wondered back when why INFJs were so exempt from these types of attacks as other types got regularly thrown under the bus - just as much by INFJs (though often disguised as an 'objective Ti observation' but with ample Fe judgement), I might add

I think it goes without saying that those of the type targeted often feel unfairly treated - and rightly so, as their flaws or worse - their perceived flaws are put in the harshest light for everyone to see without any kind of balancing out and seeing the type - let alone the person behind that type as a hole. It is enough to make one either rebel and resent others for misunderstanding them or not accepting them for who they are or even doubt oneself and start the self-loathing. None of this is exactly pleasant to experience.

It would be a lot more productive if we didn't have these kind of mudslinging contests at all between the types, but I guess that frustration that builds up has to go somewhere. I doubt that this will ever change. Otoh, it is surely not a bad thing to point out in every one of those instances that it aint exactly desirable behaviour and -while temporarily certainly productive in venting - unproductive as a state of mind.

 

[FemMecha]

I've seen it, here & other places. It's more veiled, but the insults are there; being disingenuous doesn't mean you're nicer. This thread topic itself is demeaning to INFPs. I am 100% comfortable in dealing with it flippantly.

All this comment does is reinforce the "INFJs have no sense of humor" observations....

I'm making observations, valid ones, even if unpleasant to hear. Other people can handle negative observations & criticism of their type without crying "meanie-head!". Implying I am a snob & bratty is not mean either? Come now... At least I don't attack individuals. I note patterns in types on message boards, general vibes of a group, not naming names nor even having any in mind.

But OA, you are not behaving in line with the "group" of INFPs. If I attacked the entire category prejudiciously, then my statements would be false. My impression about your communication being snobbish and flippantly bratty apply only to you. I like you personally as a poster and find you often have good insights, but you also cross the line in your behavior. You can certainly call me mean for saying you are bratty, but my comment is in reaction to you behaving that way. Is it mean to tell someone they are being hurtful when hitting someone? You are verbally hitting people and you are being mean, so should I coddle you about it? I didn't think that is what you even want as an INFP who you find to be more "raw" and not politely passive-aggressive. I didn't want to take it passive aggressively by saying that it applies to an entire category of people. That would be completely irrational, and I find your position to be irrational as well because it is simply prejudicial and not insightful. You are often insightful, but not here. Your conclusions are way too extreme and generalized. Even if you have been surfing the net for a decade, there is no way that you know every INFJ and that the extremity of your opinions could apply to each one. Regarding the no humor comment - I'm not trying to be funny because I think being flippantly mean is far more dismissive than just shooting a straight arrow when someone is behaving below their potential of insight by being prejudicial, unkind, and unreasonable.

If what I'm saying is not true at all, then address the argument, don't tear down the speaker. This is a common angle you take though, but Fe shaming isn't going to change my observations.

Your arguments are so subjective and intangible, that the only style of argument available is "yes, I think they are horrible", "No they are not" "Yes they are because I've been on their site", "No they aren't because I've been on the site too and my impression is different". I gave you the position that I've been on this site as long as it existed and have not seen INFJs behave as you describe. I've never seen one slap down someone crossing the line as I just did. It's probably because I have higher Fi than most other INFJs. The best way I know to "tear down your argument" is to show Exhibit A: The INFJS on this board that are not the way you describe.

It is frustrating that if I approach the problems with your behavior overtly it is "Fe-shaming", but if it is done indirectly it is "passive-aggression". I have addressed your argument extensively in other threads, and I'm tired of it because you have never demonstrated a single inclination to respond at all. You just keep rehashing the same assumptions over and over and over again. This tells me that the problem is with you in some personal way and is not about holding an actual intellectual position.

Are the witch hunt threads not there? Is there no passive-aggressiveness in INFJ communication? Is there no arrogance is not seeing flaws & failings in yourself or not accepting any criticism as valid? If you don't want to be seen that way, then maybe change your communication style.

This thread was started by an INFP, although I do see that it could be interpreted as demeaning to INFPs. I think that is why the INFJ comments are pushing back against that by rejecting the notion. I have seen passive-aggressive INFJ communication, but actually have seen it far more often with INTPs and INFPs with the occasional poster being extremely overtly aggressive. The problem with passive-aggression is that if you already have a negative notion, it is possible to see it everywhere - like my comment initially in this thread about "doe eyes". I meant that as a compliment, but someone chuckled at it which could have implied passive-aggression. There certainly have not been focused discussions from INFJs attacking INFPs, and I have never seen a thread started with that being the focus. If it happens here and there between specific individuals, that is not the same thing as what happens here in the reverse. Once again it isn't all INFPs.

 

[FemMecha]

[MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] and anyone else interested.

I've been trying to think of a way to explain this issue more analytically than speaking from frustration.

When anyone describes their experience with an MBTI type that is negative, including multiple experiences with a particular type, that information is not verifiable or falsifiable by anyone else. It is your experience and perception and should be accepted as such. My experience and perception with the same type in this instance is different, so who is right? I have zero desire to invalidate anyone's experience, especially if it is painful and unpleasant.

Where the line is crossed is when personal experience/perception is universalized. Your experience/perception and mine are both infinitesimally small in the context of the whole of reality. Whatever an INFJ is as an entire category, neither of us knows. Each person should be free to share their experiences with a type, but stop there and not impose those experiences onto new unknown people. Edit: Also in your post that triggered my reaction you appear to be actively trying to get people to think badly about INFJs in general, which is a form of trolling. Sharing experiences is one thing, but this active attempt to tear down an entire type is not right, rational, or reasonable in the least. /Edit

As far as the witch-hunt threads you mentioned at the INFJ forum, that sounds terrible, and I abhor those threads, although I do think it is important to call people out when they cross the line, but it should not be done by ganging up on them. Leave it between two people of comparable power. The power imbalance created by witch-hunt threads is really horrible. I didn't see those when I was on the INFJ forum, but I would go after anyone who started one there. Those were common at the INTP site, and I took on Hustler directly a few times for it and got slapped down pretty hard. Not every INFJ wants to do witch-hunts. I will take you at your word that it happens, but please don't universalize it or any other behaviors. Leave those data points exactly as they are in reality and be open to obtain new data points that could contrast with the old ones instead of using confirmation bias to continually reinforce previous assumptions. That goes for all of us that think with MBTI.

 

[Nijntje]

I'm really not sure why an infp would want to be an infj, it would mean we have dirty, dirty Fe.

Yuck.




(edit - i haven't read this thread)

 

[Azure Flame]

The cognitive functions are a shit show when it comes to introverts. This is largely on part due to incompetence of MBTI itself.

ENFJ's and INFJ's are very similar in behavior, except INFJ's are functional percievers and ENFJ's are functional Judgers. So unfortunately you have a lot of INFP's who should be INFJ's, and likewise, you have a lot of INFJ's who should be INFP's, as Fi Ne makes you a functional judging dominant personality, and INFP's have much more functional similarity to ENFP's for this reason.

I don't know if I should completely cast aside function theory and just go for the good ole stereotypes again, or if I should ignore the stereotypes and go strictly by the functions, because the stereotypes and the function definitions are not consistent.

All I know is I made a rant video on how annoying it is that on INFJ forums across the internet, the behavior of people is exactly the same as it is with INFP forums across the internet. The same personalities are inhabiting all of these forums.

As INFJ's have Ni Fe Ti Se, I can very clearly see their use of Fe which makes them very welcoming, accepting and non judgemental people. With Se and Ti they tend to have a more crass and douchebag sense of humor than not.

INFP's on the other hand do not have Fe on their to do list. They tend to use Fi to judge others based on their internal emotional construct than use Fe to make someone feel welcommed and accepted into the group.

So when I enter an INFJ forum and the only thing I hear is "omg ESTP... ew, estp r mean!" and then that person proceeds to talk about why they're an INFJ because they eat mint chocolate chip ice cream over vanilla, it makes me want to burn down the forest and rape all the animals... figuratively speaking.

 

[21%]

I think it's the same thing as how minority groups are allowed to get away with blatant racism against white people, and women are allowed to get away with blatant racism against men. If you are railing at people who society perceives to be in a more fortunate position, you can usually do so without guilt. If your type is constantly getting unfairly smacked, it is normal to develop that kind of mentality. The problem is no one realizes that other types are also constantly under attack and that there is no "the man" to stick up to, so every represented type here develop this 'minority misunderstood type' mentality and the mudslinging starts.

Stereotypes are terrible. Even 'good' stereotypes are terrible. I'm actually glad no one thinks INFJs are all that great anymore so people can stop expecting me to be a prophet and start treating me like a person.

Right now my reaction to any type-bashing is that the person needs time to heal from real-life hurt, like when someone just broke up with their boyfriend and declare that all men are evil. It's normal human behavior.

We just need to spread the love

 

[prplchknz]

I'm happy with being INFP, I like INFJs but i don't want to be them, that's like a cow wanting to be a duck, it's not possible

 

[Ivy]

I love INFJs. I would love to be more like the INFJs I know. But I wouldn't really say I want to BE an INFJ.

 

[21%]

Hooray it's now fluffy again

 

[Stanton Moore]

Can we haz sexxy time naow?

 

[FemMecha]

We used to have that around here though, years ago. Then the INFPs were the overemotional, sensitive, whiny bunch with no practical skills and INFjs were treasured as altruistic and saint-like.

These days, much less so.

I don't remember that time, but have taken two hiatuses from here. You mentioned not seeing the other recent attacks, one of which inspired me to leave for close to a year, so perhaps they are more localized? During the time you describe, it could have been a reaction against the extreme negativity INFJs had experienced at the INTP forum. INFPs were "annoying", but there were death wishes for INFJs and they were explicitly described as "evil". I'd rather be a whiny and overemotional snowflake than a cruel, narcissistic, arrogant Hitler. There is an issue of both quality and quantity of attack. INTJs get some similar attacks of being evil. SJs have it the worst around here, and there are all sorts of dismissals, but I'm wondering if there is some other place online where INFJs are immune to this because I don't see it here. I'd say INFPs are as immune as anyone because the nature of the criticism is lacking substance. I think it is worth standing up for all types that are unreasonably attacked.

As a side note, it is a well established fact that adoration and contempt are two sides of the same coin. Celebrity and royalty are the extreme example of this. I distance myself from people who are too praising towards me because it is human nature to desire to be first (especially in modern culture), so if someone sets you above them, it typically results in jealousy and contempt. This is true whether or not the praising is objective in the least. I'm not going to speak for other INFJs, but I find both extremes nauseating and just prefer to be ignored and share ideas rather than tearing down or building up social power.

 

[Tiltyred]

What INFP (and other Fi users) calls passive aggressive is what INFJ (and perhaps other Fe users) call civil conversation; in other words, you get the message across without actually calling the person a name. You leave your statement open enough that the person you're thinking of has a chance to recognize what you're talking about and address it on his own. This saves face for both people, and leaves open the chance that the conversation can take a better turn. We're subtle; we do things indirectly; we work behind the scenes. If you want to label that "passive aggressive," fine, but to me, that's just Fi talking, which doesn't get us. It's fine if you don't get us, but the name calling gets a little oppressive...

And it's nice to be among people that actually read walls of text and don't respond with tl;dr to anything over a sentence or two. We can be funny. I just think when we're with our own kind, we like to hunker down, because nobody else finds it as interesting as we do.

Anyway, yeah -- to the OP -- not around here, they don't.