Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts What is it really like to be Social-last?

[cascadeco]

I wrote this in another thread last week, but I really have no motivation to join groups or be part of any organization, for the sake of being part of the group or working towards a common team vision.

If I join a group (and past attempts were very short-lived), it is with the sole desire/hope of meeting someone in that group who I really like and who I could start becoming close to and build a relationship with outside of the group. Therefore, if I join a group, and meet someone I really like, I'd then cease having any motivation to continue with the group activity. I guess I do not derive any enjoyment or personal fulfillment out of interacting with a variety of people, not building upon those relationships or REALLY feeling close to anyone, going home, calling it a day and being content, and then repeating that the following week we meet up.

Without fail I end up feeling even worse and more lonely if I do a group thing and then don't feel I really jive with anyone/there's no potential for jiving in a 1:1 way.

 

[typologywhore]

Greatly enjoyed reading everyone's responses.

was wondering about a certain difference in outlook bw So-lasts and other types. my own sense [as an sx-so] is that i absolutely want to have an effect on wider society. took me a while to realise this, as for a while i was just stuck at "ahahawat like 95% of mainstream society is shit lol why is no one talking about this", but then progressed to figuring out that i want to be involved in actively OPPOSING society/its questionable assumptions/shitty values/prejudices/general fuck-up-ery and so on (lol)

There's a sense of wanting 2 be on a public platform stage. i wanna shock people, challenge people, fuck shit up, smash the system, all that jazz - there's certain strains of "notice me, bitches!" and "i wanna be in/famous" in there as well. i wanna unite with other people who living on the fringes of acceptability & allowability, other ppl who are fierce & uncompromising & angry - if we all march together, we'll be strong; if we shoutyellscreamchant together, our voices will have to be heard. so there's that sort of vision of/desire for a place in the wider scheme of things, [perhaps on a national/international/even global level?]. Does that sort of concern w "society" as a whole & the way it works/isn't working seem like a [key] difference between between types with So in their stackings, and So-lasts? Or have i misunderstood/misconstrued/simplified/whatever? XD

 

[RaptorWizard]

It's being like say half of the shy and retiring forum who are afraid to confront the real world and all of its amazing challenges.

 

[The Great One]

I feel very confused right now, because I feel as thought none of my variants are neglected. However, I seem to be Self preservation first.

 

[Lark]

I misread this thread title as what's it like to be a socialist and was excited for a moment. Imagine my disappointment when I realised what it really said.

<-- Disappointed Lark.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

I don't know, I just don't think I care that much for social "rules". I mean, I think first-handedly about any rule someone tries to impose on me, and if I don't like it, I don't comply with it, even if everyone else does.
Also, I don't like manipulative schemes, forming "us against them" groups, etc. I go in the direct and honest way.

 

[Entropic]

That's definitely how I feel. I just wrote in my blog this week that I didn't realize I actually had a SO place in my workplace until I stepped back and observed. People actually include me, say hi to me from across the room and the hall, invite me to gatherings... but I wasn't even aware of it because it didn't really fill any core drives. All that can be happening, but I can still feel very alone and unhappy, if I'm not making personal one-on-one connections with people.

lmao, I relate to this. People often say hi to me I guess but I'm like "hiii!" *sees person I like to be around* Oh hey you, let's talk! and I leave the other people completely in the dark haha. It just doesn't concern me to kind of... build bonds this way.

And then if I see the same person talking to several people but me I'm like ;( y u no talk to me moar? Something I'm very frustrated with currently at my job because there's one person I'm interested in but the work we're performing doesn't really help to build social interaction much. He's probably so first though. He's sure more chatty to everyone and their mother compared to myself. If I don't know the person and I don't know what to talk about because I don't know if we share anything in common (even if it means that we work with the same stuff) I don't talk to them. In group conversations I tend to be very silent and more of a listener. I'm very chatty when I engage people one-on-one though and you hit one of my sweet spots because it's a subject I'm really passionte about. Then I can ramble on all day.

But to actually answer the OP's question as sx/sp and a 5, I'm aggressive, competetive and blunt and I pay little attention to the social world around me. Making an analogy to Scrooge or the Grinch is probably not too far off, actually. I'm extremely oblivious to all things social (and Fe). News? What news? Harlem Shake? Why should I be concerned? I think what really is the perfect way to understand that I'm so last is that I used to study a master program in global studies though, YES, global studies. Let me copy paste for you from wikipedia because it's a pretty broad program:

Global studies, in its broadest definition is the academic study of political, economic, social and cultural relationships of the world. Furthermore, it can also include the study of political and cultural processes, the impacts of globalisation, markets and communications. Global Studies incorporates transnational and local trends in its curriculum. Undertaking a global studies course can also include field work or research in a particular area of interest.

Global studies can also be referred to as world studies, international studies or international education. However, international education can also refer to the development of educational institutions internationally.

How did I end up studying this? Because I love social anthropology and I wanted to continue studying anthropology. However, after a while I noticed that global studies is not for me because I have no passion or drive to save starving children in Africa or build a greater social community in Bangladesh. I care but it's very supreficial care. The only way I even pay notice to world news or events is if they tend to overlap with my primary areas of interest such as copyright laws. Even then, my attitude is quite nonchalant. In contrast, I looked around and I saw my classmates all burning for obvious social issues. I felt alienated for sure because I only care about my little special expertise and what directly interests me.

Instead, what drives me as a person are always one-on-one connections. I feel intimately starved, emotionally starved, if I cannot discuss things I'm passionate about with other people, ideally one-on-one but very small groups work too. It's very frustrating as an overall experience and I can feel lonely as a result even. And once I get that, it's also very hard to glue away. It feels frustrating to pull myself away. I need more, I crave more, I desire more. If the interaction also wanes I feel equally frustrated because it's akin to someone who offered me a cake piece and then ate the entire cake himself.

 

[Entropic]

Greatly enjoyed reading everyone's responses.

was wondering about a certain difference in outlook bw So-lasts and other types. my own sense [as an sx-so] is that i absolutely want to have an effect on wider society. took me a while to realise this, as for a while i was just stuck at "ahahawat like 95% of mainstream society is shit lol why is no one talking about this", but then progressed to figuring out that i want to be involved in actively OPPOSING society/its questionable assumptions/shitty values/prejudices/general fuck-up-ery and so on (lol)

There's a sense of wanting 2 be on a public platform stage. i wanna shock people, challenge people, fuck shit up, smash the system, all that jazz - there's certain strains of "notice me, bitches!" and "i wanna be in/famous" in there as well. i wanna unite with other people who living on the fringes of acceptability & allowability, other ppl who are fierce & uncompromising & angry - if we all march together, we'll be strong; if we shoutyellscreamchant together, our voices will have to be heard. so there's that sort of vision of/desire for a place in the wider scheme of things, [perhaps on a national/international/even global level?]. Does that sort of concern w "society" as a whole & the way it works/isn't working seem like a [key] difference between between types with So in their stackings, and So-lasts? Or have i misunderstood/misconstrued/simplified/whatever? XD

Ah, thanks for sharing this. Very interesting to read an sx/so's point of view as opposed to my sx/sp. I mean, I have those ideas but they are more vague. Smash the system, ok, I guess I can rant a bit about why I think society is fucked but at the end of day it's jus secondary to me compared talking to why I think this subject is awesome just between the two of us and fulfilling my own needs. But you raise a good point about how so can also take the form of counter-social culture, just like sx and sp can take the form of counter-sexual culture and self-preservation-counter culture although I'm quite uncertain how the latter would appear as.

I know that for me though, sx first counter-culture is very like "I don't give two shits if you think sex is all that sells" and "I'm above trying to sell myself with my body" and so on. Being a 5 also, I guess it also makes sense why I'd reject the more physical intimacy seeking that is often associated with sx too. Instead it's all about the mind to me. I don't care about vain or sexual promiscuity. But the fact that I only care about having one partner and that monogamy is very important to me is still a strong tell-tale sign of how strongly sx driven I am. I want to exist for one person and I want that person to only exist to me.

 

[greenfairy]

I'm curious, because I've been trying to figure out my stacking for a while now. I'm pretty sure I'm 3w4, but the stackings are a bit more tricky because parts of both Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx descriptions apply to me.

Can any sx/sp or sp/sx help out?

Me too. I think in my case sx/sp though. The part of sp/sx I didn't relate to was being materialistic and focused on status.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Me too. I think in my case sx/sp though. The part of sp/sx I didn't relate to was being materialistic and focused on status.

To hell with materialism - it's all about the esoteric and arcane beyond this plane!

 

[greenfairy]

I dunno, all this so stuff is very important to me, and makes me feel greatly fulfilled when I have it. Even if I talk to a stranger successfully or get invited to a party I think 'Cool, people like me!' and I get either a swelled sense of confidence from social competence or a warm fuzzy feeling or both. I'm very concerned about the world and the global ecosystem and the biosphere and all the life on it. I want to hug every living thing. (And I'd probably scare them away with my sx tendencies in the process.) I'd feel utterly useless in life if I couldn't connect to a group; I'd feel like dying. If I'm not particularly socially successful I can comfort myself by connecting to the trees and nature-y things.

But I'm very sx too, no denying that. My sp is the only thing contradictory to it. I'm very concerned with self preservation. I'm very into health and being prepared for anything.

My instinctual variants scored within about 5 points of each other, so I think I'm just all three. I know that defies the system, which I respect because its logical value, but what do you do if there is no clear answer or way to confidently eliminate an option?

Presently, even though so is very important to me and I can't relate to much in this thread, I'm saying I'm sx/sp because 1) the description fits me the best, 2) sx and sp probably are even stronger than so and 3) there are a few things about so which I'm uncomfortable with. I don't automatically understand the proper way to behave socially (I have had to learn a lot), groups scare me- like institutions, the government, religion, angry mobs, the unwashed masses, etc., and I'm rather paranoid about what they could do to me; I don't like being bound by obligations I don't choose because they don't make logical sense to me and they restrict my freedom, and I have very little clue about how to produce group harmony. If conflict in a group occurs I get scared and run.

 

[Elfboy]

this probably has more to do with 7 than instinctual variants, but pretty much the only reason I go to a party is to find someone to potentially hook up with. the following people are ignored
- women
- guys who aren't hot
- guys I don't vibe with
- guys I've confirmed are straight
as I usually don't find anyone who doesn't fit this criteria, I usually just stay for about 20 minutes, chat someone up over by the snacks and then bounce.

exception: if you're not my type but have a captivating vibe that makes me think "damn! he's/she's tight!", at which point I will probably go and talk to you.

 

[Amargith]

Heads up, Im sx-so myself, but:

As an sx-dom, I tend to notice the degree to which people use the ex-instinct. In sx-sp people there is a very clear 'here I am, come and get me if you dare' vibe. They are interested, and often more open to the idea of building a bond, at least from the get-go. Sp-sx gets there too, but they take their time to first get comfortable

It's a need to sync up with someone, size someone up that they find intriguing and see what happens. Often, once they get passed that initial hump, and you actually start bonding with them, talking to them more in depth and for a longer stretch of time, they'll start pulling away, depending on how fast things are getting really intimate. They'll bolt, and next time you see them, they might again do the initial sizing up part of the dance, but be evasive of the rest of the dance, till they feel comfortable again.

Iow, their sp works like an anchor when they are going full speed ahead and can make them seem rather push and pull, to the point where you wanna bang their heads against the wall to make up their *** minds already.

Sp-sx doesnt...do the sizing up dance as easily. They look at you with the whole 'wut' face, while they get cozy and comfy, almost like a nesting thing. Others at that point are irrelevant to them. And first approach will be met with a taxing look and an almost non-reaction. Then suddenly, when they decide they are ready, they'll jump you from behind and reel you in for that talk theyve been meaning to have with you. Ninja-style.



So, tl;dr version:

Sx-sp = roaring fire when you meet them, then flakes later, to process, push and pull
sp-sx= being ignored like a piece of decor, only to be stalked and roped in later

I both types. And both can drive me batty, when their sp kicks in and does the 'im unavailable right now' thing. Once they settle into what they want however and what would be comfortable, they build this amazing bubble for just the two of you. Sp-sx tends to be more of a stable warm fire you can cuddle up next to whereas sx-sp tends to be a non-stop dance, where you eventually learn how to anticipate their moves better over time.

 

[Kierva]

it's awesome
I feel like So-dom and to an extent So-second types have more stress than me because they're so concerned with things outside of their direct sphere of influence (group dynamics, whether or not they are accepted, starving children in Africa).

They have no business in my conscience.

as an Sp/Sx I feel like my desires are a little more focused on areas I have direct control over (safety, hygiene, comfort, financial security). the need for so much outside acceptance and the wide sphere of focus that attending to group dynamics requires would probably really tire me out.

I care about financial security, but only because it's a good trait that others seek and I can raise my status as husband material

Social Instinct is about the need to belong, be part of something larger than yourself and fulfill your role in the group.

Examples? I'm not too clear about SO stacking and I'd like to learn more.

 

[Qlip]

I'm sx/sp, having so last leaves me struggling a bit staying 'plugged-in' to the group. I have trouble maintaining interest in people unless they're somebody that stirs my sx instinct, somebody I really want to get to know better (it doesn't have to be sexual, just a deep interest). My outings are driven by seeking some sort of consuming experience, not by getting out with friends. But that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy group based social interaction, I do.

The friends I do have, I'm very loyal to and I'm willing to do a lot for them. I guess it's the sp thing, I want them to know I'm there for them and hope the reverse is true.

Sometimes I trample social conventions in my quest for merging. I'm trying to work on maintaining friends right now.

 

[The Great One]

I don't know, I just don't think I care that much for social "rules". I mean, I think first-handedly about any rule someone tries to impose on me, and if I don't like it, I don't comply with it, even if everyone else does.
Also, I don't like manipulative schemes, forming "us against them" groups, etc. I go in the direct and honest way.

This could just be a lack of Fe.

Me too. I think in my case sx/sp though. The part of sp/sx I didn't relate to was being materialistic and focused on status.

Well these things are also associated with a 3 fix, and id types in general.

I dunno, all this so stuff is very important to me, and makes me feel greatly fulfilled when I have it. Even if I talk to a stranger successfully or get invited to a party I think 'Cool, people like me!' and I get either a swelled sense of confidence from social competence or a warm fuzzy feeling or both. I'm very concerned about the world and the global ecosystem and the biosphere and all the life on it. I want to hug every living thing. (And I'd probably scare them away with my sx tendencies in the process.) I'd feel utterly useless in life if I couldn't connect to a group; I'd feel like dying. If I'm not particularly socially successful I can comfort myself by connecting to the trees and nature-y things.

But I'm very sx too, no denying that. My sp is the only thing contradictory to it. I'm very concerned with self preservation. I'm very into health and being prepared for anything.

My instinctual variants scored within about 5 points of each other, so I think I'm just all three. I know that defies the system, which I respect because its logical value, but what do you do if there is no clear answer or way to confidently eliminate an option?

Presently, even though so is very important to me and I can't relate to much in this thread, I'm saying I'm sx/sp because 1) the description fits me the best, 2) sx and sp probably are even stronger than so and 3) there are a few things about so which I'm uncomfortable with. I don't automatically understand the proper way to behave socially (I have had to learn a lot), groups scare me- like institutions, the government, religion, angry mobs, the unwashed masses, etc., and I'm rather paranoid about what they could do to me; I don't like being bound by obligations I don't choose because they don't make logical sense to me and they restrict my freedom, and I have very little clue about how to produce group harmony. If conflict in a group occurs I get scared and run.

The need to be liked could just be associated with a 2w3 fix.

this probably has more to do with 7 than instinctual variants, but pretty much the only reason I go to a party is to find someone to potentially hook up with. the following people are ignored
- women
- guys who aren't hot
- guys I don't vibe with
- guys I've confirmed are straight
as I usually don't find anyone who doesn't fit this criteria, I usually just stay for about 20 minutes, chat someone up over by the snacks and then bounce.

exception: if you're not my type but have a captivating vibe that makes me think "damn! he's/she's tight!", at which point I will probably go and talk to you.

See, and I'm not really like this. I go to a party to socialize with people that I like. However, I'm not like a typical SO dom that just works a room like a politician. I'm more like a human metal detector, and I only talk to the people that I'm gravitated towards. It's either that or I am the complete center of attention that is entertaining everyone at once. My variants are very hard to detect.

 

[greenfairy]

Well these things are also associated with a 3 fix, and id types in general.

The need to be liked could just be associated with a 2w3 fix.

Eh. It's complicated. I worry about status and being liked, but it's more in an abstract sense, and parts of myself contradict it, so I don't really know which is more important. It would be easier I guess if I was one of those lucky people who knew what they wanted and liked. But I like and want a bunch of things which appear to be incompatible. So 3 + 2 = 3w2, 3 more likely than 2 because I'm more selfish.

If we all have a tri-type, then I wonder which heart center number most INTP's would be? None of them seem to fit. Maybe 5 with something and then 4w5? 3 seems more likely than 2 at least.

See, and I'm not really like this. I go to a party to socialize with people that I like. However, I'm not like a typical SO dom that just works a room like a politician. I'm more like a human metal detector, and I only talk to the people that I'm gravitated towards. It's either that or I am the complete center of attention that is entertaining everyone at once. My variants are very hard to detect.

This sounds like sx, the gravitation. I don't know about so or sp.

 

[Elfboy]

See, and I'm not really like this. I go to a party to socialize with people that I like. However, I'm not like a typical SO dom that just works a room like a politician. I'm more like a human metal detector, and I only talk to the people that I'm gravitated towards. It's either that or I am the complete center of attention that is entertaining everyone at once. My variants are very hard to detect.

that's basically what I said

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=15773]greenfairy[/MENTION]

1. Yes, I also worry about status as well. However, I'm not like a typical So dom who feels the need to belong to a group, or to strongly contribute to society in one way or another. I seem very SO because I'm actually very extraverted. Again though, I'm not the absolute best at social networking as most of my SO dom friends are. Again, most of my SO dom friends who are extraverted are literally like politicians that are working a room: they talk to and click with everyone. On the other hand, I literally just scan the room for people that I like and when I finally come across them, I generally just stick with that person and talk with them most of the night at a social occasion like a party or whatever (sometimes a couple people, but I have to like them). I do VERY poorly with people that I hate as well.

I remember at my old job, I as in marketing and I would constantly have to be out networking with the boss who was an ESTJ So/sp and the other boss who was an ESxP who was Sx/so. They would be working the room and chatting with everyone and getting the word out about our product, and they would always try to get me to the do the same thing, and it would always come out one of two ways: The first, was that I just found maybe one or two people, or maybe a small group that I would click with and just chat with them most of the night. What was even worse was that in that small group, I would only chat with the people that I connected with in that group: I would unconsciously shut the other members of the group out. I really wouldn't try to do this, but it would just wind up happening. That could happen or in the second scenario I would just entertain the whole group and become the life of the party.

Oh and btw, to me it's pretty easy for me to differentiate between the 3w2 and 2w3: The 3w2 wants to be admired for their accomplishments and basically praised for their accomplishments almost like the football player on game day at the Superbowl being cheered on my thousands of fans. The 2w3 on the other hand is almost like Spongebob squarepants or Michael Scott from the office: they really want to be liked by everyone.

In response to your question, most INTP's tend to be either 3 or 4 fixed, and very few INTP's are 2 fixed. Most are 3 fixed.
[MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION]

Well, I'm glad that you agree with me.

EDIT: I should also add that intimacy is a complicated issue for me: I was hurt very badly by my mother and I saw my parent's completely bitter divorce, and it really left a bad taste in my mouth. It made me realize how much a relationship or intimacy could fuck up your life. It really made me afraid of intimacy. My main goal in life is to get a lot of money, and to get a lot of prestige as well: I am very career focused. However, intimacy is a craving for me: It's almost like human blood for the Twilight vampires: they crave it and want it so bad, and it tastes so good, but it has the potential to cause them serious problems.

 

[greenfairy]

[MENTION=15773]greenfairy[/MENTION]

1. Yes, I also worry about status as well. However, I'm not like a typical So dom who feels the need to belong to a group, or to strongly contribute to society in one way or another. I seem very SO because I'm actually very extraverted. Again though, I'm not the absolute best at social networking as most of my SO dom friends are. Again, most of my SO dom friends who are extraverted are literally like politicians that are working a room: they talk to and click with everyone. On the other hand, I literally just scan the room for people that I like and when I finally come across them, I generally just stick with that person and talk with them most of the night at a social occasion like a party or whatever (sometimes a couple people, but I have to like them). I do VERY poorly with people that I hate as well.

I remember at my old job, I as in marketing and I would constantly have to be out networking with the boss who was an ESTJ So/sp and the other boss who was an ESxP who was Sx/so. They would be working the room and chatting with everyone and getting the word out about our product, and they would always try to get me to the do the same thing, and it would always come out one of two ways: The first, was that I just found maybe one or two people, or maybe a small group that I would click with and just chat with them most of the night. What was even worse was that in that small group, I would only chat with the people that I connected with in that group: I would unconsciously shut the other members of the group out. I really wouldn't try to do this, but it would just wind up happening. That could happen or in the second scenario I would just entertain the whole group and become the life of the party.

EDIT: I should also add that intimacy is a complicated issue for me: I was hurt very badly by my mother and I saw my parent's completely bitter divorce, and it really left a bad taste in my mouth. It made me realize how much a relationship or intimacy could fuck up your life. It really made me afraid of intimacy. My main goal in life is to get a lot of money, and to get a lot of prestige as well: I am very career focused. However, intimacy is a craving for me: It's almost like human blood for the Twilight vampires: they crave it and want it so bad, and it tastes so good, but it has the potential to cause them serious problems.

Yeah, you're definitely sx. Sp just because so is not represented anywhere in what you've been saying. Interesting to know how this stuff works in people's experiences.

Oh and btw, to me it's pretty easy for me to differentiate between the 3w2 and 2w3: The 3w2 wants to be admired for their accomplishments and basically praised for their accomplishments almost like the football player on game day at the Superbowl being cheered on my thousands of fans. The 2w3 on the other hand is almost like Spongebob squarepants or Michael Scott from the office: they really want to be liked by everyone.

In response to your question, most INTP's tend to be either 3 or 4 fixed, and very few INTP's are 2 fixed. Most are 3 fixed.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Sorry that happened to you. It's pretty common though for people to have traumatic early experiences, and it damages issues of intimacy no matter the instinctual variant or type. And everyone needs intimacy, it;s just more crucial to the well being and orientation of sx first and second. You instinctively gravitate toward it, and then don't really know what to do with it when you have it because you're afraid of a negative outcome. Pretty typical sx/sp from what I know of the description.


I just had an insight, that sx is like Fi and so is like Fe. Of course this doesn't neatly translate to mbti type, but those who have tried hard to develop their Fe (such as me, and probably [MENTION=17702]KatharineML[/MENTION]) might have put a lot of effort into learning these so behaviors in conjunction. Like I make an effort to network and work the room so to speak to effectively improve my social life; but you and [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] being extroverts already would have no real need for such things as you can effectively socialize without having to seek people out and create good relations. And then of course strong introverts wouldn't really care about increasing their socializing.