[NT] NTs, what do you live for?

[EcK]

That sounds like fun, what specifically do you do?

If i told you you d have to hire me for a ridiculously high salary.

 

[Society]

It's a vague question, though I'm curious, what drives you in life?

 

[EcK]

Maslow's bs.
It goes against basic evolutionary facts.
also it assumes a more linear progression of development than is in fact apparent in real life.

I mean for pete's sake, even Erikson had been corrected on this decades ago. Maslow's is easy to swallow marketing, as a logical construct it is poorly correlated with real life past the 1st level of physiological needs. the 2nd level starts getting askew, the 3rd is utter bullshit, and the 2 others dont make that much sense if seen linearly, esp. in our fast changing society, with lesser job security, multiple locations and jobs etc.

Maslow's a dinosaur using simplified 2d logic, get on the page.

 

[Society]

Maslow's bs.
It goes against basic evolutionary facts.
also it assumes a more linear progression of development than is in fact apparent in real life.

I mean for pete's sake, even Erikson had been corrected on this decades ago. Get on the page. Maslow's is easy to swallow marketing, as a logical construct it is poorly correlated with real life past the 1st level of physiological needs.

True, and yet none of that contradict the fact almost any answer you'll get to that question fits with one or more items from that list, usually some combination of self-actualization and self esteem, in some cases family/belonging as well. In the context of this question, it makes for a good - useful - if badly shaped list.

 

[EcK]

[MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION], the elements aren't bad, but the system itself is borderline stupid nowadays. If all that was needed to build a sky scrapper was the building material I'd build 2 a week with my own too hands dude.

It could be acceptable as a simple, easily marketable model (and it has been successful in that aspect), but as a basis for serious understanding of human nature and leveraging of it, in a vacuum its ok, but nothing is in a vacuum and compared to other systems it's not just dated, it's rubbish.

to give you a ready answer, googled that, seems more realistic than maslow and take a non purely consecutive linear approach to the problem as maslow did. Some comments to be made however as this one doesn't take into account memetic/cultural evolution (though its correlated with bio, ofc)

 

[Nicki]

If i told you you d have to hire me for a ridiculously high salary.

I see

 

[Nicki]

[MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION], the elements aren't bad, but the system itself is borderline stupid nowadays. If all that was needed to build a sky scrapper was the building material I'd build 2 a week with my own too hands dude.

It could be acceptable as a simple, easily marketable model (and it has been successful in that aspect), but as a basis for serious understanding of human nature and leveraging of it, in a vacuum its ok, but nothing is in a vacuum and compared to other systems it's not just dated, it's rubbish.

to give you a ready answer, googled that, seems more realistic than maslow and take a non purely consecutive linear approach to the problem as maslow did. Some comments to be made however as this one doesn't take into account memetic/cultural evolution (though its correlated with bio, ofc)

Interesting

 

[EcK]

Interesting

Yet self evident. To give a quick preview of a more comprehensive system, add memetic/cultural evolution. Picture ideas and how we spread them as a mix of status and mate acquisition to parenting. Basically going from the self's ability to generated added value to self and others and touching on the (ideally ) exponential spread (but not necessarily reaching it).

edit:
These memes are part ego based part cultural based, the culture itself is fitting in a larger pyramid replicating the same structure as the personal one. Basically. So just as kids will go through all the phases, ideas will as well climb up there, within culture and individuals.

A proper model would in fact be a zoom up on a section of a fractal, depending on the resolution you need for the analysis. Uh no, a combination of fractal geometries and venn diagrams. to account for differential spread rates. mmhh. That'd take me days to figure out mathematically frankly.

it also hints at why kids are so influencable. (affiliation over self esteem)

anyway. working on something else now.

 

[FDG]

I interpret the pyramid of needs differently, namely: each person has a preference towards the six "development scales", could be - if you want - interpreted as a weighting factor.

However, since some of those "needs" are basic to our survival, the weights will not be multiplied by constant factors, but rather by factors which are directly proportional to the placement in the "scale" of needs: if I place a weight of 0.20 on safety and 0.40 on self-actualization, it will be filtered as, say, 0.35 on safety and 0.30 on self-actualization.

Perhaps that's what EcK is referring to.

 

[EcK]

I interpret the pyramid of needs differently, namely: each person has a preference towards the six "development scales", could be - if you want - interpreted as a weighting factor.

However, since some of those "needs" are basic to our survival, the weights will not be multiplied by constant factors, but rather by factors which are directly proportional to the placement in the "scale" of needs: if I place a weight of 0.20 on safety and 0.40 on self-actualization, it will be filtered as, say, 0.35 on safety and 0.30 on self-actualization.

Perhaps that's what EcK is referring to.

*reads*
it's one aspect yes.
interesting quasi architectural approach though, very Te, actually ; P. The lower levels taking the weight as the ziggurath growths. I like it.

I was thinking in terms of abstract structures and correlations in the Ti way. Then , fractals, and venn diagrams, structures within structures in a 3 level memetic(in)/phenotypical(out)/societal(both & multiple units) codependency

 

[Nicki]

This is a really fascinating discussion.

 

[Derpravity]

I live for hedonistic experience, I think, albeit in a very inefficient way. To this end I want to develop my applied rationality skills. There's a particular aesthetic, emotion, excitement, that strikes me every now and again, and I feel like I spend my life chasing it, one moment to the next, without knowing exactly what it is, but hoping every day to get closer to capturing it. Maybe it's just the chase that's satisfying, and the fleeting feeling itself is more or less a MacGuffin.

Anyway, I feel most fulfilled when I'm working on a big project. A creative endeavour, or some vision for improving the world to my liking. I want to discover what I can feel and what I can do, before I die. Something like that.

 

[Nicki]

I live for hedonistic experience, I think, albeit in a very inefficient way. To this end I want to develop my applied rationality skills. There's a particular aesthetic, emotion, excitement, that strikes me every now and again, and I feel like I spend my life chasing it, one moment to the next, without knowing exactly what it is, but hoping every day to get closer to capturing it. Maybe it's just the chase that's satisfying, and the fleeting feeling itself is more or less a MacGuffin.

Anyway, I feel most fulfilled when I'm working on a big project. A creative endeavour, or some vision for improving the world to my liking. I want to discover what I can feel and what I can do, before I die. Something like that.

Sounds like you're embracing Se. I definitely identify with you to an extent but do you have an end goal in mind? I find just experiencing things depressing.

Same here. What are your favorite kind of projects?

 

[Nicki]

I live for hedonistic experience, I think, albeit in a very inefficient way. To this end I want to develop my applied rationality skills. There's a particular aesthetic, emotion, excitement, that strikes me every now and again, and I feel like I spend my life chasing it, one moment to the next, without knowing exactly what it is, but hoping every day to get closer to capturing it. Maybe it's just the chase that's satisfying, and the fleeting feeling itself is more or less a MacGuffin.

Anyway, I feel most fulfilled when I'm working on a big project. A creative endeavour, or some vision for improving the world to my liking. I want to discover what I can feel and what I can do, before I die. Something like that.

Sounds like you're embracing Se. I definitely identify with you to an extent but do you have an end goal in mind? I find just experiencing things depressing.

Same here. What are your favorite kind of projects?

 

[Derpravity]

Sounds like you're embracing Se. I definitely identify with you to an extent but do you have an end goal in mind? I find just experiencing things depressing.

Same here. What are your favorite kind of projects?

I guess, in crude terms, I just want to know that I've enjoyed myself as much as possible. I don't mean that I want to try anything and everything; I mean that whatever I do, I want to enjoy the experience of it, whether it's going for a solitary walk or a meaningful artistic collaboration. I want to feel like I enjoyed everything I was capable of enjoying, or at least got as much satisfaction out of living as possible, which is why I put so much value on being more analytical than I already am.

My favourite projects tend to be novel-planning or TV show-plotting. Thinking up a big story, all the characters and dynamics involved, and playing around with them. I tend to get sucked into those the most. Otherwise it's perfecting my school assignments, or planning out big hypothetical ideas, like starting an innovative business or political/philosophical movement, or learning a new hobby or theory like rap rhythm or screenwriting or applied rationality. In these projects I don't tend to work out the details so much but get caught up in painting the big sweeping picture and then examining it. Typical.

I suppose it's my hope that one of these big ideas will really grab me one day, and maybe by my 30s I'll be actively working on something concrete and really big.

 

[Nicki]

I guess, in crude terms, I just want to know that I've enjoyed myself as much as possible. I don't mean that I want to try anything and everything; I mean that whatever I do, I want to enjoy the experience of it, whether it's going for a solitary walk or a meaningful artistic collaboration. I want to feel like I enjoyed everything I was capable of enjoying, or at least got as much satisfaction out of living as possible, which is why I put so much value on being more analytical than I already am.

My favourite projects tend to be novel-planning or TV show-plotting. Thinking up a big story, all the characters and dynamics involved, and playing around with them. I tend to get sucked into those the most. Otherwise it's perfecting my school assignments, or planning out big hypothetical ideas, like starting an innovative business or political/philosophical movement, or learning a new hobby or theory like rap rhythm or screenwriting or applied rationality. In these projects I don't tend to work out the details so much but get caught up in painting the big sweeping picture and then examining it. Typical.

I suppose it's my hope that one of these big ideas will really grab me one day, and maybe by my 30s I'll be actively working on something concrete and really big.

That makes sense.

I definitely understand what you're saying. Big ideas are the most inspiring.

 

[Stumblebum]

I sometimes feign depth, but I really live for fun. I can't imagine living for any other reason. I'm unlikely to do anything meaningful with my life. Meaning is wholly relative to an individual. After all, nothing matters, right? Hm. I quite like to ponder things, but when it comes down to it, I can't rationalize the concept of significance or any of that nonsense. It's just fun to think about.

 

[Nicki]

I sometimes feign depth, but I really live for fun. I can't imagine living for any other reason. I'm unlikely to do anything meaningful with my life. Meaning is wholly relative to an individual. After all, nothing matters, right? Hm. I quite like to ponder things, but when it comes down to it, I can't rationalize the concept of significance or any of that nonsense. It's just fun to think about.

How? Interesting.

 

[EEW]

That's a very good question...
I actually live from my (sudden) interests.
E.G.: I just learnt about the Myer-Briggs typology and it perks my interest, so I joined a forum. I don't know how long I'll last though, I think my interest will fade after a while. So I'll probably dissapear after 4 months or so.
I also live for my ideal future. I want to be a scientist, be it a geo-person or a bio-person (I don't care), and live a very interesting life. With of course a husband who loves me for who I am, despite my sudden interest-bursts.

That's about it.