Sehnsucht: Experiences and Thoughts and Stuff

[Anew Leaf]

A theme that has been cropping up in my random studies the past few months has been around the concept of Saudade or Sehnsucht. I just came across this once again today and I thought maybe it could be an interesting discussion.

Do you feel like you have experienced this concept in your own life?

If so, how does it manifest?

We can go from here to wherever.

 

[erm]

I've experienced things that seem close to Sehnsucht often, though not nearly as sophisticated as that description in the link (though perhaps that sophistication merely arises from natural language's inability to describe feelings with much accuracy). In fact, I can recreate a lot of these feelings, albeit mildly, as I am writing this. They have been some of the most intense feelings I have ever experienced.

Saudade seems more along the lines of love, which I haven't experienced. I think I've experienced it mildly through empathy, especially of fiction and music, but never with much intensity (it was a feeling not too far off nostalgia, though it doesn't really focus on the past, just an absence which was not necessarily there to begin with).

It's funny, all the strongest positive feelings I've experienced have never really had corresponding words (ecstasy is the closest, with its "stand outside the self" meaning), whereas the strongest negative feelings have all had words that encompass them quite well (despair and agony, mainly).

 

[Anew Leaf]

I've experienced things that seem close to Sehnsucht often, though not nearly as sophisticated as that description in the link (though perhaps that sophistication merely arises from natural language's inability to describe feelings with much accuracy). In fact, I can recreate a lot of these feelings, albeit mildly, as I am writing this. They have been some of the most intense feelings I have ever experienced.

Interesting point about languages inability to describe feelings. Maybe that is what is so interesting to me about this word. It's something alien to name that which is felt but not able to be expressed since the very concept of expressing a deep inner lonely longing requires an interaction with the external which in a sense automatically negates that which is felt and trying to be expressed.

It's funny, all the strongest positive feelings I've experienced have never really had corresponding words (ecstasy is the closest, with its "stand outside the self" meaning), whereas the strongest negative feelings have all had words that encompass them quite well (despair and agony, mainly).

Could it be that positive feelings are more layered and intricate whereas negative feelings can be a bit more "one note" in concept? Just wondering out loud here.


---------------------------

New questions I have thought of... Is it easier to ignore such feelings if we don't have a name for them? These terms are very specific words pulled from languages and cultures other than English. In the Wikipedia article it talks about a study done between Germans and Americans:

In a cross-cultural study conducted to determine whether the German concept of Sehnsucht could be generalized to the United States, four samples of American and German participants “rated their 2 most important life longings and completed measures of subjective well-being and health.”[6] German and American participants did not differ in their ability to identify life longings or the intensity of their Sehnsucht. However, German participants associated it more with unattainable, utopian states while Americans reported the concept as not as important to everyday life.

 

[SD45T-2]

Do you feel like you have experienced this concept in your own life?

Yes.

If so, how does it manifest?

Do you mean how I act when I'm experiencing it?

Interesting point about languages inability to describe feelings. Maybe that is what is so interesting to me about this word. It's something alien to name that which is felt but not able to be expressed since the very concept of expressing a deep inner lonely longing requires an interaction with the external which in a sense automatically negates that which is felt and trying to be expressed.

You just wrinkled my brain, dude.

Could it be that positive feelings are more layered and intricate whereas negative feelings can be a bit more "one note" in concept? Just wondering out loud here.

Maybe. If so, I'd say it's a trend but not an absolute. I know I have some negative feelings that require a fairly elaborate description to explain.

New questions I have thought of... Is it easier to ignore such feelings if we don't have a name for them?

Not for me.

I was also schadenfreude-y before I even knew the word existed.

 

[Rad3k]

OP: I have certainly experienced some form of sehnsucht. Sometimes when I'm in melancholic, nostalgic mood, I'm thinking about all the good things I'll probably never have in my life. It makes me quite sad.

 

[Red Herring]

Ah, Sehnsucht, one of our national specialties and export hits!

 

[Red Herring]

Aaaaand a little encore:

 

[NPcomplete]

I have, to some extent, experienced both although I can't say I'm always aware of the feelings. Typically, I use songs and other media as emotional thermometers so when I start moving towards certain themes, such as

I know that something is up and that it's time to get the magnifying glass and/or tissues out.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Do you mean how I act when I'm experiencing it?

Hmm, I think I mean... how do you feel or think or do stuff.... (nice and vague, I know)

You just wrinkled my brain, dude.

True story: your brain is already wrinkled.

I would try to say what I said more succinctly but... everytime I try it's pretty much what I already wrote except that I made it even more bizarre. Hmm, maybe it can be explained by this: So our bodies have veins which transport our deoxygenated blood back to our heart and lungs to get oxygen and stuff. And because the blood has no oxygen, it looks blue in the veins. You can see it under the surface of your skin. However, if you tried looking at the blood first hand by cutting yourself, it immediately turns red.

I probably made no sense there again, but I found it interesting to connect the two.

Maybe. If so, I'd say it's a trend but not an absolute. I know I have some negative feelings that require a fairly elaborate description to explain.

Good point.

Not for me.

I was also schadenfreude-y before I even knew the word existed.

German has the best words.

It did make me think of a psychological study that I had to read about in college. Where some culture (I forget which one) doesn't distinguish between the colors pink and orange, and because of it they see them as the same color.

 

[Anew Leaf]

OP: I have certainly experienced some form of sehnsucht. Sometimes when I'm in melancholic, nostalgic mood, I'm thinking about all the good things I'll probably never have in my life. It makes me quite sad.

What do you do about these feelings?

Ah, Sehnsucht, one of our national specialties and export hits!

Le sighe... This is one of my favorite songs ever... that opening is gorgeous.

Aaaaand a little encore:

*moves to Germany*

I have, to some extent, experienced both although I can't say I'm always aware of the feelings. Typically, I use songs and other media as emotional thermometers so when I start moving towards certain themes, such as

I know that something is up and that it's time to get the magnifying glass and/or tissues out.

Oh, Muse... Greatest Emo Band Ever. That's an interesting point about using external sources to gauge where your emotional GPS coordinates are located.

 

[Rad3k]

What do you do about these feelings?

I think of possibilities and make up ambitious plots to get what I want someday. They're surely difficult to carry out, but at least they don't seem entirely impossible. And there's no time limit besides that of my lifetime. Most of the things I do somehow advances these plots. Working towards the goals makes the life worth living. I don't fixate on them entirely though. I accept the possibility that I'll never reach them. Or that somewhere along the way I'll find something I wasn't looking for, that'll make my goals obsolete. Either way, I'll have no regrets.

The difficult part is when I lose faith in myself. This is why I think it's important to have some other reasons to keep going, like some close friends and/or SO.

 

[Vasilisa]

[MENTION=13402]Saturned[/MENTION] Great topic, I wrote a bit about my feelings on it here

I feel this, too. In the midst of my time with certain people and experiences, I recognize that I have to appreciate them now because in the future they will be gone. I'm anticipating the loss, but it is not because they're meaningless, or its easy to imagine it over. It is precisely because I find them so meaningful, its enough to break through whatever facile pleasure I'm feeling about it to put the thought in my mind that the time right now is worth treasuring because it will soon pass. I feel acutely aware of the transitory nature of all things. Unfortunately, I have let people fall out of my life too easily, and maybe this weird resignation is part of why I do that. I think nostalgia is technically defined as the bittersweet ache of the longing for home. Having a gypsy upbringing might also affect why I feel this way.


I remember reading about a prisoner of war who while imprisoned had to keep his mind active to keep his sanity and spirit alive and endure the torture. He would contemplate space and time. It helped him endure his imprisonment by recognizing that time as we think of it doesn't exist. Because when we see a constellation we are seeing hundreds of thousands of years into the past. And from that far off in space one would see back into time on earth. That plus all those other awesome mind-bending facts of physics can help bring home that time is something of an illusion. I know its weirdly random, but this meditation speaks to me.

 

[Anew Leaf]

I think of possibilities and make up ambitious plots to get what I want someday. They're surely difficult to carry out, but at least they don't seem entirely impossible. And there's no time limit besides that of my lifetime. Most of the things I do somehow advances these plots. Working towards the goals makes the life worth living. I don't fixate on them entirely though. I accept the possibility that I'll never reach them. Or that somewhere along the way I'll find something I wasn't looking for, that'll make my goals obsolete. Either way, I'll have no regrets.

The difficult part is when I lose faith in myself. This is why I think it's important to have some other reasons to keep going, like some close friends and/or SO.

That's a pretty good plan to combat such feelings and to make them work for you into something productive.

@bold, I find this interesting. At the time in my life where I have experienced that... I have turned to others for help in shoring up my own inner realm, but it never does anything. It's actually quite annoying how inner dependent I am. Although, I recognize that it is helpful to have a select group of trusted people around me who can help point me in the right direction. I am now rambling.

[MENTION=13402]Saturned[/MENTION] Great topic, I wrote a bit about my feelings on it here:

I feel this, too. In the midst of my time with certain people and experiences, I recognize that I have to appreciate them now because in the future they will be gone. I'm anticipating the loss, but it is not because they're meaningless, or its easy to imagine it over. It is precisely because I find them so meaningful, its enough to break through whatever facile pleasure I'm feeling about it to put the thought in my mind that the time right now is worth treasuring because it will soon pass. I feel acutely aware of the transitory nature of all things. Unfortunately, I have let people fall out of my life too easily, and maybe this weird resignation is part of why I do that. I think nostalgia is technically defined as the bittersweet ache of the longing for home. Having a gypsy upbringing might also affect why I feel this way.

I have felt this myself. I sometimes get overwhelmed with the knowledge that nothing lasts forever, and how quickly everything falls away... that I have to distance myself to keep from being overwhelmed by the emotion/sensation. I especially like how you phrased the bold there.

I wonder if the key then is to try and balance the appreciation of the present moment for what it is worth. I think I tend to experience these feelings when I am getting too far ahead of myself in future oriented thoughts. It is hard for me to dissolve into and fully appreciate the present moment since it is the moment that should matter the most... and yet I am so often thinking of the moments beyond because I know they are coming.

I remember reading about a prisoner of war who while imprisoned had to keep his mind active to keep his sanity and spirit alive and endure the torture. He would contemplate space and time. It helped him endure his imprisonment by recognizing that time as we think of it doesn't exist. Because when we see a constellation we are seeing hundreds of thousands of years into the past. And from that far off in space one would see back into time on earth. That plus all those other awesome mind-bending facts of physics can help bring home that time is something of an illusion. I know its weirdly random, but this meditation speaks to me.

This is a beautiful thought and, I like how it ties into this concept very much. It reminds me of my favorite chapter in "Watchmen" when Jon is on Mars thinking about his life. Thank you for sharing.

 

[SD45T-2]

Hmm, I think I mean... how do you feel or think or do stuff.... (nice and vague, I know)

Kind of like life has totally eluded me and I have no idea how to find it, or that my role in the world has been taken away from me and I haven't been able to get cast in any other role that's remotely satisfactory.

That's the best I can think of at the moment.

True story: your brain is already wrinkled.

I would try to say what I said more succinctly but... everytime I try it's pretty much what I already wrote except that I made it even more bizarre.

That's okay. I thought it was an interesting point, just very different from my way of thinking.

Hmm, maybe it can be explained by this: So our bodies have veins which transport our deoxygenated blood back to our heart and lungs to get oxygen and stuff. And because the blood has no oxygen, it looks blue in the veins. You can see it under the surface of your skin. However, if you tried looking at the blood first hand by cutting yourself, it immediately turns red.

I probably made no sense there again, but I found it interesting to connect the two.

Nigel Tufnel: "This is my exact inner structure, done in a tee shirt. Exactly medically accurate. See?"
Marty DiBergi: "So in other words if we were to take all your flesh and blood..."
Nigel Tufnel: "Take them off. This is what you'd see."
Marty DiBergi: "It wouldn't be green though."
Nigel Tufnel: "It is green! You see how your blood looks blue?"
Marty DiBergi: "Yeah, well that's just the vein. That's the color of the vein. The blood is actually red."
Nigel Tufnel: "Oh...then maybe it's not green. Anyway this is what I sleep in sometimes."


IIRC, Christopher Guest has said his Nigel Tufnel persona was inspired by Jeff Beck.

German has the best words.

My best friend told be that back when he was in high school one of the classrooms had a blue printing machine in it and the teacher didn't want students messing around with it, so he put a sign on it that said "Achtung! Der machinen [some stuff I can't remember]." None of the students knew German, but it was still very effective.

It did make me think of a psychological study that I had to read about in college. Where some culture (I forget which one) doesn't distinguish between the colors pink and orange, and because of it they see them as the same color.

Wow.

On a side note, I didn't know Muse was emo. Maybe that's why I'm not a fan.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Kind of like life has totally eluded me and I have no idea how to find it, or that my role in the world has been taken away from me and I haven't been able to get cast in any other role that's remotely satisfactory.

That's the best I can think of at the moment.

Oh... interesting perspective. Thank you for sharing. It sounds like you are embracing your inner INFP here. (I approve.)

Nigel Tufnel: "This is my exact inner structure, done in a tee shirt. Exactly medically accurate. See?"
Marty DiBergi: "So in other words if we were to take all your flesh and blood..."
Nigel Tufnel: "Take them off. This is what you'd see."
Marty DiBergi: "It wouldn't be green though."
Nigel Tufnel: "It is green! You see how your blood looks blue?"
Marty DiBergi: "Yeah, well that's just the vein. That's the color of the vein. The blood is actually red."
Nigel Tufnel: "Oh...then maybe it's not green. Anyway this is what I sleep in sometimes."


IIRC, Christopher Guest has said his Nigel Tufnel persona was inspired by Jeff Beck.

Very nice play here with your tert Ne.

My best friend told be that back when he was in high school one of the classrooms had a blue printing machine in it and the teacher didn't want students messing around with it, so he put a sign on it that said "Achtung! Der machinen [some stuff I can't remember]." None of the students knew German, but it was still very effective.

LOL! German is one of those "Sit Up And Take Notice" languages.

Wow.

On a side note, I didn't know Muse was emo. Maybe that's why I'm not a fan.

I plead the 5th.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I saw the title, then I saw all the YouTube videos, and I'm stunned that no one else posted this.

 

[Mole]

Interesting point about languages inability to describe feelings.

English is perfect for expressing feelings, for English has far more words than any other language. No, the problem lies not with English but with our inability to feel.

And we are unable to feel because our feelings were squashed or even traumatised as children, and in order to conform and survive we needed to repress our damaged feelings. And in repressing our damaged feelings, we tend to repress our good feelings as well. And as everyone else is doing this, it seems quite normal. But the tragedy is that, just as our feelings were damaged as children, so we damage the feelings of our own children.

 

[Mole]

Sehnsucht

The port
was longing
the port
was longing

not for
this ship
not for
that ship

not for
this ship
not for
that ship

the port
was longing
the port
was longing

not for
this sea
not for
that sea

not for
this sea
not for
that sea

the port
was longing
the port
was longing

not for
this &
not for
that

not for
this &
not for
that

 

[sprinkles]