[INFJ] When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

[Fidelia]

Mane, it seems to me that it is right to make sure that the most important relationships in your life are overall equitable and that there is trust and vulnerability there. This is a part of self-care and ensures that my resources are not so depleted by one person that I have nothing left to take care of myself or the other people I'm responsible for. When one person consistently is only the provider or only the giver, but it is not a parent-child type of relationship with the attending roles that come with that, it creates an unhealthy dynamic with an imbalance of power. I am very much in favour of talking and working things out with people whenever possible. There are times though, that the relationship has reached a point where this is no longer possible. In many of these cases, measures should have been taken earlier on in the relationship to prevent the place it has gotten to, but in the event that those measures weren't taken, there are some times when trust is no longer regainable, or where the dynamic is way too one-sided to right itself.

In those cases, I think the best people can do is move on and extract what they have learned to guide them in future interactions. For me, I've learned to recognize selfish behaviour earlier on and avoid allowing those particular people into my inner circle. I also have realized that men and women can be friends, but that the relationship can never remain static, so it is unlikely that they can freeze the relationship at a good point of closeness. I am better at defining and conveying boundaries than I used to be, and I also have started to understand the need to maintain a larger circle of people in my life, so that my perspective cannot be impacted as seriously by just one person. I've learned to be more up front about my needs and more direct when I feel that something wrong has happened, even if I cannot yet articulate it as perfectly as I'd like.

My sister just got out of a terrible marriage. At this point, there is nothing left to discuss with this man, even though it is plain to see what made him into the person he is right now. His character and habits are such that he is not a safe person to spend time with or be associated with financially. Therefore, at this point, the best thing she can do is cut off contact so that she can start making changes in her life to meet her family's needs appropriately.

 

[Society]

I stop taking others' feelings into account AFTER they've hurt mine badly enough for repair to be difficult

so, if i ask them, after they've had time and space for introspection, they will tell me that they have done so to you - within a vacum? that within the relationship and resulting circumstances, within their interaction with you, nothing has done so? or maybe they'll say that it's all their baggage fault?

 

[Eilonwy]

[MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION], are you taking your own personal hurt and projecting it onto the INFJs here who will listen to you and respond, since it seems from what you've said that the INFJ that you care deeply about won't hear you out?

I am sorry that you're hurting so badly, but I'm not the INFJ you have an issue with. And since you don't know me and I don't know you, there's not much point in telling each other how to behave. I can't make up for what your INFJ did.

Actually, this applies to [MENTION=14749]BalanceFind[/MENTION], too.

 

[Society]

[MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION], are you taking your own personal hurt and projecting it onto the INFJs here who will listen to you and respond, since it seems from what you've said that the INFJ that you care deeply about won't hear you out?

nope, in my earlier post here i came up with two seperate realizations - one personal (wanting to be heard - by her) and one intelectual (the consequances of stress) - and trust me that on the first i have acted on very directly, and not within the forums.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

so far the shortest time period i've heard that taking for an INFJ to come full circle on their own and deeply regret a doorslam is 15 years, and that was an extremely healthy one. the longest i've heard was 28 years. i'm sure for many it's longer.

they never get them back.

I really don't get this. What does time have to do with it? Even though I still think you given examples are out of extremity, there are many crucial factors that resulted in doorslamming and you just seem to put them all in the same bucket.

Every type are capable of doorslamming. Some do it out of betrayal or anger, others do it out of hurt or toxic. There are just so many variables that lead one to doorslam the other and it really based on one's ethcial standards.

I have done and realized the act of doorslamming can be quite dauntingly cruel one, but sometimes it's for the sake of our mental health--for us to move on, or for others not to waste additional time in a meaningless relationship.

Apart from those who doorslam for selfish reasons (For example, my ENTJ and ISFP bff doorslammed a ESTP friend because they felt she's being flakey. Even though she has been like that from day one, they just no longer want to tolerate her), I think you need to realize that usually doorslamming is the last option for many INFJs. And more so than often we've been being pushed around too far. I know quite a few mentally and physically abusive men who still have no idea why their ex doorslammed them.

When you mentioned about locking communicaiton without listening to what others have to say, I think that's the sign when an INFJ had given up on someone after giving them too many chances. Perhaps you may not noticed this as I think INFJ tend to not express their disappointment strongly but just through observing. So it is unfair to assume that blocking communication is an selfish act--as far as I know, it usually takes a lenghty time for an INFJ to do this to someone close to them.

 

[Eilonwy]

nope, in my earlier post here i came up with two seperate realizations - one personal (wanting to be heard - by her) and one intelectual (the consequances of stress) - and trust me that on the first i have acted on very directly, and not within the forums.

Then I'm not sure what you want from the INFJs on the forum. Or rather, since I can't speak for every INFJ on this forum, I'm not sure what you would want from me. Are you giving me advice based on your experience? If you are, then it was unsolicited advice and I don't tend to take unsolicited advice from strangers since they don't know my situation. If you want me to admit that I make mistakes and have faults, well, that's something that applies to every human being so I don't understand why my mistakes and faults are any worse than anyone else's or why I should answer for them here rather than IRL with the people I've wronged. If you're trying to make me aware of a fault that you think I have that I'm unaware of, then that is too far out there for me. You don't know me and what my faults may be. And instead of helping me be more self-aware, you are making me feel attacked, which I don't think you mean to do.

I'm just not sure what your point is, or BalanceFind's either. I'm not the one doing the things you're describing. And if I do those things and am unaware of it, then you and BalanceFind aren't the best people to try to point that out to me because neither of you know me. It's too general. You don't know the specifics of my relationships and whether I'm acting the way you describe or not. The people I've had relationships with haven't been you. They may not have done what you did, reacted like you did, taken what I did the same way you might. So, I just don't get what kind of response you're looking for here in this thread.

If I promise you that I will never, ever cut someone out of my life completely; that I will consider their feelings whether I'm in a healthy state of mind or not; that I will try my best to not be cruel to another person ever again--what good will that do? Is that what you're looking for? I really don't get the point.

If you're hurt and looking for sympathy, that I can understand and can do, because it does seem to me that you're hurting, but otherwise, I don't know how to respond.

 

[Society]

look, your right:

i was projecting, just in a somewhat different way. see, i know that if i ever suspected i might snap on my loved ones at some point in a way which - according to people who have expeirenced the sort of behavior - was found to be abusive, i wouldn't be saying to myself "me? i've done it only X times and each case was uniquely their fault". i would stay away and work on myself like there's no tommorow, using any tool that might work. but that's me.

as for @SlkRoad's question: no, most relationship for me are an organic process, they grow, they prosper, and sometimes they fade. the ones i work on are the ones i am commited too, and they are very few, and generally mean the person is important to me - and in those cases, loyalty isn't an affort for me, its part of who i am. so no, i never need to doorslam.

also: while i don't know about "most" - haven't done the statistics - i can tell you with certainty that not all INFJs judge a line of reasoning or theory based on the credibility of it's source, and not only there are INFJs who are not only capable of recognizing an ad hominem as a logic fallacy, but there are INFJs who are confident enough about their own intelect & Ti to judge a line of reasoning or theory based on it's own merits and avoid the insecurity, and thus not tend to fall for the fallacy to began with. MBTI should be used as a tool for understanding, not as a cruch to lay our weak points on loral leaves.

 

[Fidelia]

Perhaps what you are witnessing is the difference between J and P. I've noticed that J types tend to need a sense of closure in their relationships and plan out where they see the relationship going more than a lot of P types who are more likely to see what happens. Of course that's a generalization and I'm sure there are exceptions, but it may be one of the differences you are feeling.

I'm not sure why you are beating a dead horse here. The more you argue your point with INFJs in this thread, the less they are buying what you are trying to push. You refuse to concede any ground or consider that YOU might be mistaken in your assessment. Therefore, to many of us, your conclusions just seem unfounded and unreliable because you have started from a false premise.

Several people ahve already asked - What is your goal? If it's education, you are not doing it effectively. If it's sympathy, you need to make that clear. If you are just looking for a soapbox, this isn't it. In my world, I don't express much without having some sort of intended outcome. Maybe it is different for you, but if that's the case, you may have to clarify that, because the people in this thread generally are starting from the belief that you do have some intent for sharing this.

 

[Society]

What is your goal?

basically: while browsing the posts i recognized a pattern and came up with potential insight towards the nature of the doorslam. out of the INFJs i've known well enough (3 that i know about, 1 suspected), most seem to enjoy it in the name of personal growth. so i've brought it up openly and asked questions to see if it applies, so far it seems to do. its possible that it was the nature of the relationships that allowed them to do so, but at least two of those are able to recognize ad hominems and at least one of them is intelectually confident enough to avoid falling for it (the one i married), so i had no reason to suspect that it was "a matter of source credibility". which is why i didn't expect a group defensive reaction. but now i suspect that a main reason is that it was in one on one interaction with mature INFJs who behaved as indeviduals rather then teaming up under a tag defined by personal characteristics and collectively shouting "we're all indeviduals" against an extrapolation of those personal characteristics they teamed up under.this will sound judgemental because it is, but as my favorite INFJ says, " everyone judges".

my main conclusion from what i've seen so far?
gods i had no idea how lucky i was.

one has to wonder, how did doctor who and jesus make it work...

 

[SilkRoad]

basically: while browsing the posts i recognized a pattern and came up with potential insight towards the nature of the doorslam. out of the INFJs i've known well enough (3 that i know about, 1 suspected), most seem to enjoy it in the name of personal growth. so i've brought it up openly and asked questions to see if it applies, so far it seems to do. its possible that it was the nature of the relationships that allowed them to do so, but at least two of those are able to recognize ad hominems and at least one of them is intelectually confident enough to avoid falling for it (the one i married), so i had no reason to suspect that it was "a matter of source credibility". which is why i didn't expect a group defensive reaction. but now i suspect that a main reason is that it was in one on one interaction with mature INFJs who behaved as indeviduals rather then teaming up under a tag defined by personal characteristics and collectively shouting "we're all indeviduals" against an extrapolation of those personal characteristics they teamed up under.this will sound judgemental because it is, but as my favorite INFJ says, " everyone judges".

my main conclusion from what i've seen so far?
gods i had no idea how lucky i was.

one has to wonder, how did doctor who and jesus make it work...

Well...

If you think it is best to keep every piece of human dead weight around in your life, or to work forever at relationships which are draining and painful and show every sign of being doomed to failure, that is certainly your choice.

But I don't think you will convince a lot of INFJs - or in fact, a lot of people of many/every other type - that this is necessarily the best way to move through life.

 

[Society]

Well...

If you think it is best to keep every piece of human dead weight around in your life, or to work at relationships which are draining and painful and show every sign of being doomed to failure, that is certainly your choice.

But I don't think you will convince a lot of INFJs - or in fact, a lot of people of many/every other type - that this is necessarily the best way to move through life.

like i said:

as for @SlkRoad's question: no, most relationship for me are an organic process, they grow, they prosper, and sometimes they fade. the ones i work on are the ones i am commited too, and they are very few, and generally mean the person is important to me - and in those cases, loyalty isn't an affort for me, its part of who i am. so no, i never need to doorslam.

i guess the mention doesn't work without a space in the end..

 

[SilkRoad]

I'd like to draw...anyone's...attention to this thread I started quite a long time ago: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25067

It's about cutting people out of your life, which in many/most cases equates to a "doorslam". Many types weighed in. Many people do this, for one reason or another, in one way or another. There have been other similar threads started by various types.

It is not INFJ-exclusive. It can also involve a great many different scenarios and play out in a great many different ways. I'd like just to point that out.

 

[BalanceFind]

I wanted to respond to those who had replied to me after my update, and anyone else interested.

I was very upfront. I came here for selfish reasons to help myself in an immediate emergency situation. As an Entp/Enfp Enneagram 8 both wings. When I was much younger I was a 7. That is my background. I learn from combo of independent solo study, combined with discussion, of sharing, and listening. I also offered to help anyone else too.

I believe or anyone else has equal right to be here as long as people post on topic in good respectful fashion.

I posted about an unhealthy infj 4w3. Some rushed to the defense of all infj's everywhere. Some were more objective, some didn't respond. Any type can become unhealthy. I came to solve my problem.

In my situation it happened so fast, her slide into the grip of low developed Estp. It was highly unusual. I was door slammed for inaccurate reasons. My infj has admitted as such. However, the door slam continued. It continued in my case because of her embarrassment at being way wrong and way off base. Extreme stress caused extreme self indulgence. This caused her financial problems, and she chose self-preservation of an overly narrow-minded self indulgent vision over honesty. Once she had gone too far she then began to lie, cover up and try to turn others against me.

I showed patience, restraint, compassion. But at some point reality has to set in, and it never did for her. She has never stopped hiding, has never stopped running away from reality. Her feelings as important as they are, are not more important or even as important as basic financial reality and responsibility.

This person has the ability to take 5 minutes to sign a piece of paper that helps everyone and make the problem go away. She has never done so.

She happens to be an infj 4w3. She isn't all infj's. She is one. But, she is an unhealthy infj, and some of those exist, as they do exist in other types.

In my experience this door slam is unique in that with other types there seems to be more discussion, warning, closure. I had not been door slammed before.

I previously knew other infj 4w3 types. I dated more isfj9 types. But I have felt much more compatible with the intuition of the infj.

As a problem solver, it is difficult to watch a formerly really good person, throw everything away and sabotage oneself and not stop despite endless offers of help, empathy, and sympathy.

In my situation 10 minutes of in person discussion could have prevented a lifetime of problems.

 

[Society]

It is not INFJ-exclusive. It can also involve a great many different scenarios and play out in a great many different ways. I'd like just to point that out.

i doubt anything is type's exclusive. it's just a matter of tendecies and how common it is.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

also: while i don't know about "most" - haven't done the statistics – [/b]i can tell you with certainty that not all INFJs judge a line of reasoning or theory based on the credibility of it's source[/b], and not only there are INFJs who are not only capable of recognizing an ad hominem as a logic fallacy, but there are INFJs who are confident enough about their own intelect & Ti to judge a line of reasoning or theory based on it's own merits and avoid the insecurity, and thus not tend to fall for the fallacy to began with. MBTI should be used as a tool for understanding, not as a cruch to lay our weak points on loral leaves.

This makes me think you're hearing something *extra* when we say ‘we consider the source’. Just like it made me think you’ve been hearing a little something *extra* in everything you’ve read here if you really think some of these responses are like we’re “high fiving” each other over doorslamming anyone. (I ask again- can you point a single post where someone is high fiving another person here?)

Everyone judges credibility by the source- and IxxJs do this a lot more than ExxPs. Honestly, show me an INFJ who doesn’t put more weight on ‘source’ than the average person and I’ll show you someone who isn’t INFJ. If you disagree- then it’s probably far, far more a matter of you not understanding what is meant ‘consider the source’ then it is of you knowing INFJs who don’t “judge a line of reasoning or theory based on the credibility of the source" because seriously.....this is just what we do. To reiterate: it’s not about how much credibility a person has with others, it’s how much a person has directly demonstrated understanding the meaning they are trying to convey. Even the INFJs I’ve known who are hypocritical- and seemingly impervious to the mixed signals they send out themselves- are still incredibly sensitive to mixed signals coming from another person. Too many mixed signals = information is too confusing and can’t be used. Seriously, anyone who does not have this problem is probably not an INFJ.

Just the very fact that you have mentioned- a couple of times over- perceiving us as having delighted in doorslamming makes your ‘insight’ into why we do it questionable. It may not even be your intentions which seems questionable, it's your understanding of what you're talking about. There are quite a few things, in what you’ve said, that indicate you don’t understand where we’re coming from- all while explaining you know where we’re coming from. I’d break it down right now and give you specific examples (I’m not trying to be antagonistic here) but I don’t have time just now. Maybe later.

 

[Starry]

This makes me think you're hearing something *extra* when we say ‘we consider the source’. Just like it made me think you’ve been hearing a little something *extra* in everything you’ve read here if you really think some of these responses are like we’re “high fiving” each other over doorslamming anyone. (I ask again- can you point a single post where someone is high fiving another person here?)

I have to comment here...because I was laughing so hard the other day when you quoted that bit Mane posted about 'high-fiving'...and you were like 'Seriously?' (Oh man that gave me a good laugh). BUT I do have to defend Mane here and say...that yes, I have read 'Doorslamming' threads....not this one...but there is one here on this site (I'll see if I can locate it later)...and many on Personality Cafe...where the INFJs truly are giving each other pats-on-the-back for having 'doorslammed someone's ass' (etc.) haha.

I think it is just suffering though...you know? Like when you have been hurt very badly and you finally take a stand...and then others are relating to you...standing-up for you. That's what I believe it is about.

But no...the reason I came and stayed at TypoC...is because of the quality of people and the fact that everyone seems intent on learning about each other in a respectful way.

 

[SilkRoad]

I have to comment here...because I was laughing so hard the other day when you quoted that bit Mane posted about 'high-fiving'...and you were like 'Seriously?' (Oh man that gave me a good laugh). BUT I do have to defend Mane here and say...that yes, I have read 'Doorslamming' threads....not this one...but there is one here on this site (I'll see if I can locate it later)...and many on Personality Cafe...where the INFJs truly are giving each other pats-on-the-back for having 'doorslammed someone's ass' (etc.) haha.

I think it is just suffering though...you know? Like when you have been hurt very badly and you finally take a stand...and then others are relating to you...standing-up for you. That's what I believe it is about.

But no...there reason I came and stayed at TypoC...is because of the quality of people and the fact that everyone seems intent on learning about each other in a respectful way.

Yes, you have a point about those. I've also seen the threads containing quotes such as "OMG! I'm totally an INFJ and I like totally doorslam people all the time! Like my friend totally pissed me off the other day so I totally doorslammed her! LOLZ!!!!"

I'm never quite sure what to make of those. I think they're just very young and immature, basically, regardless of type. Some may be INFJs, some not.

 

[Starry]

Yes, you have a point about those. I've also seen the threads containing quotes such as "OMG! I'm totally an INFJ and I like totally doorslam people all the time! Like my friend totally pissed me off the other day so I totally doorslammed her! LOLZ!!!!"

I'm never quite sure what to make of those. I think they're just very young and immature, basically, regardless of type. Some may be INFJs, some not.

Haha...now you're cracking me up SilkRoad! Yah...haha...I made the mistake of going to PerC when I first found myself in this situation...and that was a huge mistake (thank god no one knows who I am if they read this). I laugh because when you are reading those threads you are like...'what the hell?' haha. I completely agree that there are some maturity issues there...and no...I do not feel all of those INFJs are INFJs. All I can say is that I am so glad I found this place!

Uff...the way I write is so terrible (writing mistake twice)...but I'm not going to edit.

 

[BalanceFind]

I just posted here but my post seems to have disappeared. Anyway, I came here to help my situation. I thought going to both infj's and non-infj's alike would be productive. I thought that healthy, average, and low functioning infj's and non-infj's would provide some objective and non-objective interaction. And, that is what I received. It won't help me in this situation unfortunately, but it will in the future.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

BUT I do have to defend Mane here and say...that yes, I have read 'Doorslamming' threads....not this one...but there is one here on this site (I'll see if I can locate it later)...and many on Personality Cafe...where the INFJs truly are giving each other pats-on-the-back for having 'doorslammed someone's ass' (etc.) haha.

I think it is just suffering though...you know? Like when you have been hurt very badly and you finally take a stand...and then others are relating to you...standing-up for you. That's what I believe it is about.

Okay, I don't think I've even read this thread in it's entirety- let alone anything on per c- so thank you for this point. I just know there's a pattern in this thread, and really this whole doorslam topic, for someone to show up and project their own experience into what they're hearing (so when we say "we had to cut them off"- the other person instantly perceives a world of selfishness in it and scans for some flaw in OUR judgement instead of considering how it might be true) and frankly I think we might project some previous hurt/exhaustion into the arguments we're hearing as well (because the last time we heard them, someone was explaining why they feel entitled to our our time, energy, attention, etc, beyond what's reasonable- and having someone scan our words/logic for some flaw which 'proves' they are entitled to EVEN MOAR attention/energy/affection/whatever is a real trigger.....at least for me it is).


I think it really comes down to entitlement. Sometimes people with an inflated sense of entitlement won’t listen, they’ll take anything I say and impulsively turn it into an argument in their own favor. There’s no reasoning with them. It isn’t possible to *make* them understand- since they feel entitled to take whatever energy or attention from me they want- they’ll keep impulsively arguing against everything I say. There are people who feel entitled to my time, energy, attention, affection, etc. without feeling obligated to make sure they are giving as much as they are taking. I’m going to guess there’s a misunderstanding going on when mane says it’s never acceptable to write someone off- because to suggest we owe it to everyone to keep dealing with them until they find resolution is completely asinine. There *are* a lot of people who won’t ‘find resolution’ until they get whatever it is they feel they are entitled to- and there *are* people who feel entitled to far more than they are willing to dish out. I can GUARANTEE I’ve never doorslammed someone who has put due thought into what they are entitled to. And truth be told, if I should ever become so blind to my own sense of entitlement that I’m causing another person grief- I would actually prefer they doorslam me rather than continue to be a victim of me draining their resources.

[edit:] And [MENTION=14749]BalanceFind[/MENTION], I'm really not sure if there's any advice we could have given you. I mean what you describe doesn't sound like a sane 'doorslam', and when someone becomes completely unreasonable like that- well, there's no way to reason with them. There's no reasoning with crazy, as unfortunate as that is.