ICUP
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- Joined
- Apr 26, 2011
- Messages
- 1,787
- MBTI Type
- ISTP
- Enneagram
- 6w5
- Instinctual Variant
- sx/sp
2 guys I used to work with were both ESTPs with 4 children.
Yea, and their wives were ISTJ's with 4 children, for instance.
2 guys I used to work with were both ESTPs with 4 children.
Let me tell step by step how it happened:Yea, and their wives were ISTJ's with 4 children, for instance.
Let me tell step by step how it happened:
Only 18+ should read ok. If you are underage pretend you didn't read.
It is more funny than obscene, but anyways...
18++++
ISTJ wife and ESTP husband have sex every couple of days, ESTP husband always uses condom.
At some point in her cycle, ISTJ wife starts ovulating.
ESTP husband gets aroused, proposes sex without a condom.
ISTJ wife ''No.''
ESTP husband doesn't pay attention and continues fondling.
ISTJ wife: ''No.....''
ESTP husband, persuasively: ''"Come on, just the tip, just for a minute, just to see how it feels."
ISTJ wife: ''...''
....
....
I'm not saying it always happen this way. Also, I should highlight the fact that smarter Se-doms usually do some long term planning. No function by itself makes someone less smart, but I believe the outcomes are somewhat affected by the preference.
We may never know. I just wouldn't expect uniformity. There could be some surprises.If I were going to do a study to determine this, how would i do it? I would do it by number of kids produced according to each type? And it would end with no correlation. Just because someone IS of a certain type and has certain actions, it doesn't mean the outcome is going to be different. We're talking about outcomes and results, not what a type is like and seems to be interested in doing.
Plus, there are tons of other types that don't use birth control, and don't want to. Me and my ENTJ S.O., for instance, and every other boyfriend I've ever had took chances.
Let me tell step by step how it happened:
Only 18+ should read ok. If you are underage pretend you didn't read.
It is more funny than obscene, but anyways...
18++++
ISTJ wife and ESTP husband have sex every couple of days, ESTP husband always uses condom.
At some point in her cycle, ISTJ wife starts ovulating.
ESTP husband gets aroused, proposes sex without a condom.
ISTJ wife ''No.''
ESTP husband doesn't pay attention and continues fondling.
ISTJ wife: ''No.....''
ESTP husband, persuasively: ''"Come on, just the tip, just for a minute, just to see how it feels."
ISTJ wife: ''...''
....
....
I'm not saying it always happen this way. Also, I should highlight the fact that smarter Se-doms usually do some long term planning. No function by itself makes someone less smart, but I believe the outcomes are somewhat affected by the preference.
That is a Fe take on a Fi matter.
If you(general you) don't agree with me: I don't care.
What I care about is people respecting the boundaries.
My Fe reaction is usually: why should I have to adhere to YOUR personal values when you're imposing on my personal liberty to do what I want? What gives you the right to impose your values onto me? That's where the conflict seems to lie with me at least (HAH, that seems to be the huge disconnect with the judging functions... "don't impose on me within this set of parameters"). I used to get into many conflicts over this type of thing but I just go along with anything the person wants me to do if it's more important to them.another significant point here is that, for better or worse, Fi doesn't really care about you.
it only cares about "me" - in the internal sense (it cares about you, too, but only about you from the perspective of you, not you from the perspective of me, that's Fe's thing). Fi is very aware of the boundaries between "me" and "you".
so if you're infringing on my values, i'm probably going to come off pretty harsh, because you have no right to disrupt the way i choose to live. (eg, if you litter, then you're screwing up my planet-home, so i feel like i have the right to protest). but Fi really has no use in judging others short of protecting oneself. there's no gain to it otherwise.
another significant point here is that, for better or worse, Fi doesn't really care about you.
it only cares about "me" - in the internal sense (it cares about you, too, but only about you from the perspective of you, not you from the perspective of me, that's Fe's thing). Fi is very aware of the boundaries between "me" and "you".
so if you're infringing on my values, i'm probably going to come off pretty harsh, because you have no right to disrupt the way i choose to live. (eg, if you litter, then you're screwing up my planet-home, so i feel like i have the right to protest). but Fi really has no use in judging others short of protecting oneself. there's no gain to it otherwise.
My Fe reaction is usually: why should I have to adhere to YOUR personal values when you're imposing on my personal liberty to do what I want? What gives you the right to impose your values onto me? That's where the conflict seems to lie with me at least (HAH, that seems to be the huge disconnect with the judging functions... "don't impose on me within this set of parameters"). I used to get into many conflicts over this type of thing but I just go along with anything the person wants me to do if it's more important to them.
who is imposing on your personal liberty in this scenario?
If it's a value I don't share and don't really consider important and the other person tells me off about it, I see it as my personal liberty being imposed upon. I guess I see it as the other side of the coin (I don't think Skylights is wrong but it just made me think of that).
I'm extremely curious- most everyone I know with Fi is incredibly black and white about their morals/values/beliefs- even when they can and will change them.
Which I think is ridiculous. It is like they are correct until they are wrong, and then once they revise their morals, those[/I] beliefs and morals are absolutely correct and everyone else is wrong. So what is up with that?
Example 1: I value Christian beliefs, and everything in the Bible is is absolute and not open to question. But maybe I disagree a little with this here, and a little with this there. But I am allowed to discount some of those beliefs because they don't make sense. But if anyone else does, they are going to hell, because I know what should be absolute. /brings down mighty scepter
Why are people so pretentious as to decide that they get to decide what is right and wrong? Some things I can understand- killing babies is frowned upon by most people. But why do people get so high and mighty over certain things which many people feel are open to debates.
For example, I know many people who have gone from atheist to Christian and it is like they can't fathom how anyone can not believe in God and how those people are going to hell. Seriously? All those years you were an atheist and then you decided, hey, this makes sense! and have no understanding?
Same with an ENFP I know who became Muslim from being Christian. It isn't like she changed when she was a kid. It was in her late 20s. She feels 'naked' without her hijab (even though many progressively minded Muslim women don't wear them- in fact, it draws more attention to you to be white and wearing that sort of garb!). Anyway, she frowns upon people not part of her religion, and has absolutely no understanding for how anyone can believe what she doesn't believe, and that they are immoral, etc.
Anyway, I hate to use religion as my example, but those are the first things that came to mind.
Bonus question- if Fi greatly values logic in a Ti sort of way, does that make them NFP or NTP?
Add: I mean people who use Fi.
[MENTION=14530]Jack427[/MENTION] you do not use Fe. In fact, I think Fe is an INTJ fail most of the time.
Also, freeeekyyy is wrong. Te isn't black and white. Te focuses on logical impact and the way that logical element come together in an externalized array. It's shallow in it's substance but very wide in its berth of rationale.
My Fe reaction is usually: why should I have to adhere to YOUR personal values when you're imposing on my personal liberty to do what I want? What gives you the right to impose your values onto me? That's where the conflict seems to lie with me at least (HAH, that seems to be the huge disconnect with the judging functions... "don't impose on me within this set of parameters"). I used to get into many conflicts over this type of thing but I just go along with anything the person wants me to do if it's more important to them.
If it's a value I don't share and don't really consider important and the other person tells me off about it, I see it as my personal liberty being imposed upon. I guess I see it as the other side of the coin (I don't think Skylights is wrong but it just made me think of that).
I'm extremely curious- most everyone I know with Fi is incredibly black and white about their morals/values/beliefs- even when they can and will change them.
Which I think is ridiculous. It is like they are correct until they are wrong, and then once they revise their morals, those[/I] beliefs and morals are absolutely correct and everyone else is wrong. So what is up with that?
Totally true. From my experience, we both kinda infringed on each other. That's why I changed my interaction with them and we worked hard to come to a compromise in those relationships.but that's kind of funny, because if a Fi person is telling you off for something, it's almost guaranteed that it's because you've infringed upon their space. so... it's like... you're saying they're stepping on your toes for calling you out on you stepping on their toes.
which is legit, of course, since they are stepping on you, but maybe valuable to consider how you might be infringing upon them before you blame them solely for the incident?
that's definitely true for myself and the Fe doms i know. we have different perspectives on things, and when we blame each other it tends to be a disconnect in reasoning. we have to figure out how we've hurt the other person, reciprocally, to understand the mechanics of the whole situation...
You wouldn't call a universally applied logic system black & white? It could also be referred to as "true & false," "A & B," "On & Off," etc, it all means the same thing. Something cannot be in conflict with itself.
It's not like I'm attacking Te in any way. I use Te, and value it very much. But Te is all about categories. It lives for them, much like Fe.
I'm extremely curious- most everyone I know with Fi is incredibly black and white about their morals/values/beliefs- even when they can and will change them.
Which I think is ridiculous. It is like they are correct until they are wrong, and then once they revise their morals, those[/I] beliefs and morals are absolutely correct and everyone else is wrong. So what is up with that?
Example 1: I value Christian beliefs, and everything in the Bible is is absolute and not open to question. But maybe I disagree a little with this here, and a little with this there. But I am allowed to discount some of those beliefs because they don't make sense. But if anyone else does, they are going to hell, because I know what should be absolute. /brings down mighty scepter
Why are people so pretentious as to decide that they get to decide what is right and wrong? Some things I can understand- killing babies is frowned upon by most people. But why do people get so high and mighty over certain things which many people feel are open to debates.
For example, I know many people who have gone from atheist to Christian and it is like they can't fathom how anyone can not believe in God and how those people are going to hell. Seriously? All those years you were an atheist and then you decided, hey, this makes sense! and have no understanding?
Same with an ENFP I know who became Muslim from being Christian. It isn't like she changed when she was a kid. It was in her late 20s. She feels 'naked' without her hijab (even though many progressively minded Muslim women don't wear them- in fact, it draws more attention to you to be white and wearing that sort of garb!). Anyway, she frowns upon people not part of her religion, and has absolutely no understanding for how anyone can believe what she doesn't believe, and that they are immoral, etc.
Anyway, I hate to use religion as my example, but those are the first things that came to mind.
Bonus question- if Fi greatly values logic in a Ti sort of way, does that make them NFP or NTP?
Add: I mean people who use Fi.
[MENTION=14530]Jack427[/MENTION] you do not use Fe. In fact, I think Fe is an INTJ fail most of the time.