Victor's thoughts on makeup

[Tiltyred]

The snake is clearly a phallic symbol, displayed in order to disarm the women with pure manliness.

 

[rav3n]

The snake is clearly a phallic symbol, displayed in order to disarm the women with pure manliness.

What brand do you believe the snake to be? It needs an identity so the donner can feel loved!

 

[ICUP]

I think [MENTION=3325]Victor[/MENTION] has some really interesting perspectives to share. I just wish he would be willing to actually discuss them, as people typically would on a forum, since that is usually the purpose of posting them to a forum.

Victor, it seems to me like your experience here would be more enjoyable (for you and for everyone else) if you would be more willing to discuss your opinions with people who disagree, and expand on them and explain them more, rather than just declaring them from the soapbox and getting upset when people challenge you. It would make your contributions more interesting to everyone else, too.

Agreed. Unfortunately, I don't think Victor will be hearing me.



is what I am to Victor ha.

 

[Ginkgo]

What brand do you believe the snake to be?

An entire bottle of Viagra.

 

[Tiltyred]

OH SNAP. Talk about fakery!

Jenaphor, I am not positive, but that could be a Joan Rivers snake from qvc.

 

[rav3n]

An entire bottle of Viagra.

Unfailing manhood hence proving that through branding, one can embrace their inner whore and live life to its fullest climactic pleasure!

 

[onemoretime]

I think [MENTION=3325]Victor[/MENTION] has some really interesting perspectives to share. I just wish he would be willing to actually discuss them, as people typically would on a forum, since that is usually the purpose of posting them to a forum.

He does say a lot. He simply says it primarily in metaphor. It's more like non-verbal communication. It's pretty interesting, I'd say.

From what I've observed, it looks to me like this is the typical pattern:

- Victor posts a statement that looks like a proclamation about underlying meanings and intentions
- People challenge those statements and proclamations with their own opinions (the same as they would challenge statements made by others here, as this is a forum for the purpose of discussing things)
- Victor does not address the challenging statements or discuss them, but instead posts the same proclamation in different words
- People challenge them again
- Victor gets upset and feels victimized
- People recognize this pattern and respond in one of a number of ways:
a) ignore anything Victor posts since it seems pointless to respond,
b) make fun of him,
c) tell him to start another thread instead and stop derailing the topic at hand,
d) agree with him, since it seems to be the only way to get a response from him that doesn't involve him feeling victimized or "making it about him instead of the issue", or
d) empathize with him and stick up for him.

Way I see it, Victor doesn't write very much where he expects a response. Instead, he's just offering his own perspective on the issue, and hoping that you take it into account (or not). On the other hand, I can see why he considers the challenges to be bullying - sometimes, it comes across like correcting and chastening a child. There's nothing wrong with Victor having a unique perspective. It's kind of cool, really.

Victor, it seems to me like your experience here would be more enjoyable (for you and for everyone else) if you would be more willing to discuss your opinions with people who disagree, and expand on them and explain them more, rather than just declaring them from the soapbox and getting upset when people challenge you. It would make your contributions more interesting to everyone else, too.

What do you think?

Would it still be him, though?

This is more about projection than any vaunted higher morality framework or vaunted depth of insight, or some such.

I don't think he's even talking about morality.

Wear makeup and be happy!

Isn't the point that it's strange if something like painting over one's own appearance could mean the difference between happiness and non-happiness?

Victor should wear make-up in a Julia Gillard charade to feel loved.

To be honest though, if you feel loved after dolling up, then you are capable of feeling loved. Make-up may not be the answer, but if it works, why not? It's ultimately up to you.

I disagree. One's own fundamental worthiness to be loved should not depend on any external factors. When it does, this breeds all sorts of unhealthy approaches to life.

 

[Ginkgo]

I disagree. One's own fundamental worthiness to be loved should not depend on any external factors. When it does, this breeds all sorts of unhealthy approaches to life.

In the case that one is unable to internalize their sense of love, I would prefer that they find it by measuring up to an external standard if only briefly, until they find the means to grow in a different direction.

 

[rav3n]

I don't think he's even talking about morality.

Victor's always moralising. And you conveniently missed the depth of insight.

Isn't the point that it's strange if something like painting over one's own appearance could mean the difference between happiness and non-happiness.

Have you never had fun in your life that spurts of quick pleasures like eating a piece of dark chocolate, hugging a loved one, reading a good book, all give you pleasure? It's like suggesting that life must be so serious all the time where a beautiful summer day like today should include wearing a hairshirt, to recant the pleasure of sunshine and warmth.

Wearing makeup isn't all that deep. Many women also enjoy wearing fuck-me shoes!

 

[redcheerio]

He does say a lot. He simply says it primarily in metaphor. It's more like non-verbal communication. It's pretty interesting, I'd say.

Way I see it, Victor doesn't write very much where he expects a response. Instead, he's just offering his own perspective on the issue, and hoping that you take it into account (or not). On the other hand, I can see why he considers the challenges to be bullying - sometimes, it comes across like correcting and chastening a child. There's nothing wrong with Victor having a unique perspective. It's kind of cool, really.

Sure, but it isn't very realistic to post an opinion on a forum and then feel bullied when people challenge that opinion. In fact, I'd say that strategy is destined for failure.

 

[Ginkgo]

Sure, but it isn't very realistic to post an opinion on a forum and then feel bullied when people challenge that opinion. In fact, I'd say that strategy is destined for failure.

Especially when 90% of that person's posts challenge others' opinions in the first place.

 

[ICUP]

Way I see it, Victor doesn't write very much where he expects a response. Instead, he's just offering his own perspective on the issue, and hoping that you take it into account (or not). On the other hand, I can see why he considers the challenges to be bullying - sometimes, it comes across like correcting and chastening a child.

Agreed. It IS technically, bullying. I suppose it's one thing to enforce the rules or disagree, another to bully, and to change one's behaviors towards a person because they are breaking the rules or disagreeing with me. Of course, I don't know the history, either. I can be just as prone to bully as the next guy, however, but generally it's because they did it first. I like to give people a taste of their own medicine. Alot of times, the ones prone to putting others down or creating a little clique can be the most vulnerable.

Would it still be him, though?

I see this perspective. Who am I to determine who someone else should be? Am I one to decide that Victor would be happier if he were different? I think I make suggestions based on what I think would make someone happier, but I am not them. As long as he goes by the rules, I suppose he is free to believe what he wants and post as he wishes to.
---------------
It's just another instance of hypocrisy that I see here and abroad. People say they stand for something, but in evidence, they don't even know what it means to stand for what they say they do. People are generally followers socially, which is one thing I can say, Victor, is not.

 

[redcheerio]

Especially when 90% of that person's posts challenge others' opinions in the first place.

Exactly. You can't challenge others and then expect not to be challenged in return. The exchange of ideas is what makes for interesting discussion, at least for those of us who like exchanging ideas. Maybe some people want validation only.

It might help if he put "validation only, please" or "no challenges accepted here" in his sig?

 

[Qlip]

Okay, let's break this down, and keep in mind this is a typical Victor scenario. He saw that there was a lighthearted thread dedicated to the practicals of makeup and dropped in to essentially say that any usage of makeup is an act of deciet. This is both moralizing and a very challenging 'in your face' type of action.

I know there are certain people who love an underdog and will automatically come to their defense, but I think you guys are bending way too far backward on this one. I don't see any of this as group bullying, but just a case where somebody enjoys taking a jab at many people at once and is upset he might be expected to answer back.

 

[Starry]

Makeup is fun, as long as you're not addicted to it and feel uncomfortable walking out of the house without it.

Umm okay...I actually am one of those individuals that doesn't think make-up is fun. It is also true that I do not feel comfortable walking out of the house without it...not because I feel like I look poorly without it. In fact, I prefer the way I look without it...and feel I get more male attention when I am not wearing it (I attribute this, however, to the fact that when I am not wearing make-up...I am usually participating in activities I enjoy...like camping, hiking, out-doors stuff...and not 'rotting-on-the-vine' behind a desk or in a meeting). But I get up in the morning and paint my face because I believe people take me more seriously in the professional arena when I wear it. And for whatever reason...this does bother me...but it is what it is.

 

[A window to the soul]

I think [MENTION=3325]Victor[/MENTION] has some really interesting perspectives to share. I just wish he would be willing to actually discuss them, as people typically would on a forum, since that is usually the purpose of posting them to a forum.

From what I've observed, it looks to me like this is the typical pattern:

- Victor posts a statement that looks like a proclamation about underlying meanings and intentions
- People challenge those statements and proclamations with their own opinions (the same as they would challenge statements made by others here, as this is a forum for the purpose of discussing things)
- Victor does not address the challenging statements or discuss them, but instead posts the same proclamation in different words
- People challenge them again
- Victor gets upset and feels victimized
- People recognize this pattern and respond in one of a number of ways:
a) ignore anything Victor posts since it seems pointless to respond,
b) make fun of him,
c) tell him to start another thread instead and stop derailing the topic at hand,
d) agree with him, since it seems to be the only way to get a response from him that doesn't involve him feeling victimized or "making it about him instead of the issue", or
d) empathize with him and stick up for him.

Victor, it seems to me like your experience here would be more enjoyable (for you and for everyone else) if you would be more willing to discuss your opinions with people who disagree, and expand on them and explain them more, rather than just declaring them from the soapbox and getting upset when people challenge you. It would make your contributions more interesting to everyone else, too.

What do you think?

I've debated with Victor and I don't think that's a kind or fair assessment of him; we have different views, so what. He had no problems having a discussion with me, but then I don't get emotional and offended when I'm talking to him. Some of these recent posts look like public humiliation without sufficient kind words to build him up, which is far from constructive. For that reason, I think the in-depth personal assessments should be emailed to him privately. [MENTION=7]Jennifer[/MENTION] offered him some wise advice. I think that's enough already. He's a big boy; he can take her advice or leave it, and y'all can take him or leave him alone. Give the man some space now [to mull it over].

 

[rav3n]

Umm okay...I actually am one of those individuals that doesn't think make-up is fun. It is also true that I do not feel comfortable walking out of the house without it...not because I feel like I look poorly without it. In fact, I prefer the way I look without it...and feel I get more male attention when I am not wearing it (I attribute this, however, to the fact that when I am not wearing make-up...I am usually participating in activities I enjoy...like camping, hiking, out-doors stuff...and not 'rotting-on-the-vine' behind a desk or in a meeting). But I get up in the morning and paint my face because I believe people take me more seriously in the professional arena when I wear it. And for whatever reason...this does bother me...but it is what it is.

The bolded appears to be contrary to what Victor's expressing, in reference to makeup imitating arousal. Odd that, no?

 

[redcheerio]

I've debated with Victor and I don't think that's a kind or fair assessment of him; we have different views, so what. Public humiliation without any kind words to build him up is far from constructive. That kind of in-depth personal assessment should be emailed to him privately. Jennifer offered him some wise advice. I think that's enough. He's a big a boy; he can take it or leave it, and y'all can take him or leave him alone. Give the man some space.

Ok, maybe you're right. Didn't mean for it to be unfair or unkind. I meant for it to be insightful, but maybe it was too harsh.

 

[Ginkgo]

I've debated with Victor and I don't think that's a kind or fair assessment of him; we have different views, so what. Public humiliation without sufficient kind words to build him up is far from constructive. That kind of in-depth personal assessment should be emailed to him privately. [MENTION=7]Jennifer[/MENTION] offered him some wise advice. I think that's enough. He's a big boy; he can take it or leave it, and y'all can take him or leave him alone. Give the man some space.

Do you know how many times the forum has congregated to talk about Victor? There was a Victor Fan Club thread for Chrissake. The man demands attention.

 

[ICUP]

Do you know how many times the forum has congregated to talk about Victor? There was a Victor Fan Club thread for Chrissake. The man demands attention.

I would think he would actually like the attention and relish in it.