Sensor Bias at MBTIc

[Xander]

What about those of us who are contextual people who react to the person as they project themselves and will now react to the person as an untrustworthy person?

It also fails on the lines of the actor needing to be up to the task. Can they convince people that they are an XXXX without having to state it? If not then the test is odd to say the least.

 

[Tigerlily]

I have't waded through all the responses, but I have a couple of questions.

Where do you see yourself in 10 years?

Where do you see yourself in 6 years?

Where do you see yourself in 5 minutes?

Which question was the easiest for you to answer?

Truthfully while I prefer iNutatives over Sensors, (and T's typically over Feelers) I'm an equal opportunity disliker of many people regardless of their type. What I mean is I like you no matter what you're type is.

 

[disregard]

The bias, sometimes, is within he who sees it, because he is at war with himself.

 

[Lookin4theBestNU]

I've arrived at the same conclusions as you Mycroft and have for quite some time now. The questions for me is how much of the conspiracy theory is residual from INTPc? How much is merely rumor? How much is actual bias? How much is it people who just like to stir up shit? If you have a problem with an S (who btw populate the majority of the world duh) does that make you an S-hater? The "examples" given so far have been pretty lame. I remember when this site opened how many were fiercely adamant (myself included) about this forum being welcoming to Sensors. I think we've continued to welcome them with open arms. There is no perfect environment for where groups of people are! I know that we have lists of the S-types here. I really think that if we need to improve the environment and they feel as though N's are hostile they should step forward and show us what needs to be done, specifically! I don't respect the rumor/implications that MBTIc is sensor hating. I left blatant bias against my own type to come here, learn and have fun. I'm an NF and stereotypical of my type creating a harmonious environment is what I'm about.

 

[Wandering]

I don't respect the rumor/implications that MBTIc is sensor hating.

Let's keep things into perspective:

1- Nobody mentioned hate, only bias.

2- It was never a matter of whether the forum itself is welcoming or not to Sensors (it is), it's more a matter of individual iNtuitives expressing a bias against Sensors.

 

[Seanan]

Let's keep things into perspective:

1- Nobody mentioned hate, only bias.

2- It was never a matter of whether the forum itself is welcoming or not to Sensors (it is), it's more a matter of individual iNtuitives expressing a bias against Sensors.

There's a difference, also, between bias and calling a spade a spade. If someone in my home talked to me the way I've been talked to by "SJs" here, they would be escorted to the door and told never to return... of course I would be concerned about getting decked on the way. Now, how long do you think it will take, being treated that way by those who do have their type on their profile, before I don't risk posting on a thread they're on? Is that bias? No, I don't think so... its experience and/or conditioning by actual events. And its just plain smart to avoid those types... well unless you actuallly enjoy that kind of venemous behavior.

 

[Xander]

Sensors do have a disability, Intuitives. They speak plainly (often) and often we don't. That only makes them less capable at understanding the ink blot way of thinking not being stupid, though perception wise the two are sometimes difficult to differentiate.

Personally I've found that some of the most irritating stick in the muds have been intuitives (often 5s, damn their retracting sensibilities :steam: ).

Myopia, it seems, affects us all equally.

I do agree though with Mycroft. If I wanted to sign up for sermons there are these large, cold out of date buildings where some old camp guy can drone on at me for hours about how bad I am but how I don't have to do anything about it, I come here to talk to other's who like to think too much. That's all.

 

[FemMecha]

This board has made some effort to be inclusive of all types (being MBTIcentral and all). Those who have a history on the boards that preceded it know the bias against Sensors well. I think some have made efforts to hold that at bay from the beginning of the site and so it is less of an issue here? If that somehow is offensive... oh well, can't please everyone.

 

[Xander]

This board has made some effort to be inclusive of all types (being MBTIcentral and all). Those who have a history on the boards that preceded it know the bias against Sensors well. I think some have made efforts to hold that at bay from the beginning of the site and so it is less of an issue here? If that somehow is offensive... oh well, can't please everyone.

I think it's more a nod towards the idea that we should be as vigilant when protecting against positive discrimination as we are negative, to be truly balanced and fair.

 

[Wandering]

I know that I respond differently to people based on my perception on how the person will react.

Same here. But I wouldn't necessarily call it bias: it could be just tailoring. I see a difference between the two.

Example:
- Not giving only Feeling-based arguments when discussing with, say, an INTP, is tailoring. I know those are not the arguments that are likely to carry the most weight with them, so I try and find additional arguments that will speak to them more.
- Expecting an INTP not to understand or appreciate a Feeling-based argument is bias. Some do, some don't, and INTPs have their bad hair days like everyone else. Even if experience tells me that there are arguments they are not very receptive to in general, I can never assume that a particular individual is unable to understand a particular argument.

See what I mean?

 

[Randomnity]

Interesting. Maybe there is truth to sensors and intuitives really not getting along, then--at least on forums. I don't know of any other 'sensor' who is widely liked here.

It's interesting that your experiment was intended to break down boundaries which may or may not exist, but it seems instead to have reinforced them. I'm sure it was amusing to evaluate others' reactions to you, though.

EDIT: if that came off as harsh, it wasn't intended. Straight observation only.

EDIT 2: typical N thing to do, so I guess I can't argue with your 'new' type.

 

[arcticangel02]

Hah, very interesting.

Although I think it's very possible to 'fake a personality', especially in a medium such as this forum where the other users only see what you deliberately put out there.

Hence why typing people based entirely on what they post here is not really any use at all.

But naturally, in real life it would be next to impossible to do except in extreme circumstances.

 

[Seanan]

I can never assume that a particular individual is unable to understand a particular argument.

See what I mean?

It isn't that they don't understand it, they just, most likely, won't agree with it if it sounds emotional... not until its worded unemotionally... they're just suspiscious ya know.

Edit:.. Oh, nope, you're right... I do recall a convo in which I had no clue. lol

 

[Seanan]

Hence why typing people based entirely on what they post here is not really any use at all.

Is the implication that most here are being deceptive in their posts?

 

[Wandering]

It isn't that they don't understand it, they just, most likely, won't agree with it if it sounds emotional... not until its worded unemotionally... they're just suspiscious ya know.

Yeah, I know But still: assuming that an INTP, any random INTP, will automatically disagree with a Feeling-worded argument would be bias

Edit:.. Oh, nope, you're right... I do recall a convo in which I had no clue. lol

Hence the good sense in tailoring

 

[proteanmix]

To throw my opinion in the pot, this forum was created out of a rather large type bias at INTPc. I know that I've always been sensitive to any sign of type bias. I think it does exist, but it's not as bad as other MBTI related forums and I'm just not referring to INTPc. I don't think it's a very prominent problem because people here (or at least I am) are quick to shut it down fairly quickly and I think inclusiveness is very much rammed over people's heads here (in a good way ).

That said, I think biases against sensors creeps up in subtle ways. What I noticed is when celebrity typing threads were more popular people were always typing celebs as some type of intuitive, INFJ and INFP seemed to be incredibly popular. Just recently whatever pointed out how biased and unrealistic it was for someone to claim that all the 2008 presidential nominees were intuitive. Then you have the statements that occur in the middle of threads about how people could never have a relationship with a sensor, etc. I have noticed that ENJs tend to be thought of as lower class intuitives.

I think it's more or less recognizing the "code words" for sensing and intuiting. Like when people claim they're so out of the box (who's left in the box? who wants to stay in the box? who does/doesn't realize they're in a box?) it's like saying you have some higher level of consciousness that few people in your life have. It's that attitude which I think is prominent around here, which can sometimes translate into a bias. Because comparatively if you think you see patterns/connections/meanings that no one else sees and you're convinced those things are real and are quite plain to see if anyone cared to look but no one else around you seems to be seeing it either you think you're crazy or you think everyone else is. It's much safer to believe that you're the flood light in the sea of darkness.

Then it arises in thread like this one. I noticed how quick people were to confirm that this evildoer was in fact an ESxJ. Or whenever someone comes having difficulty with another asking for help it's usually a sensor that is the crux. This doesn't mean that you can't complain about a sensor that you're having problems with, but look at the rate at which people complain about problems with a sensor or problems with an intuitive. I think someone already mentioned this, but how do you even know the person in question is a sensor? What would happen if a sensor came in complaining about an intuitive they were having problems with? What would the response be?

IMO, it's not necessarily that people are explicitly saying sensors are stupid, it's an attitude that permeates the atmosphere. It's a smugness that no one sees what you see and very few people understand the world in the way you understand it. I'm not saying that I am correctly interpreting things, it's just what it seems like to me. For example whenever there's a hot thread about any of the Big Topics (Religion, Sex/Sexuality, Politics, etc.), I find there's a didactic and pompous air that's wrapped in pseudo open mindedness. Maybe I'm just dull or something, I don't know, it seems like so few people approach a topic humbly. And I know, when I was in college and had my Psychology or Sociology 101 textbook sitting right next to me, I was quick to jump out there and defend to the death what I had just "learned." This may just come down to the demographics of the forum. We have a lot of college students and people in their 20s (myself included) who's personalities are gelling or are incorporating new ideas into their worldview and there's a lot of questioning which is fine. I notice the older posters don't act like this for the most part because experience has mellowed them out.

Seriously, extreme sensors and extreme intuitives are exactly alike in my eyes, I can't understand a damn thing either type is saying. I guess extreme sensors are more stereotypical the dumb rock types but I'd definitely class extreme intuitives as idiot savants.

 

[Seanan]

Yeah, I know But still: assuming that an INTP, any random INTP, will automatically disagree with a Feeling-worded argument would be bias


Hence the good sense in tailoring

Yeh... but in all probability.....

 

[INTJMom]

As you all know, I joined this site as a Sensor and have been one for somewhere around 5 months now.

Am I a Sensor? No. I've tested as an ENTP since I first took the test in high school

I'd lurked on this site for a bit before joining it and had noticed a bias against Sensors- the idea that they are generally less intelligent, less interesting and in general probably worse people than Ns are. This annoyed me, since a good number of my friends and family members are Sensors, so I joined the site as a Sensor just to see what would happen. I played up my Se (lucky for me it isn't weak) and downplayed my Ne in order to fit the image and jumped right in. After a while, people started to be a bit nicer about Sensors, and acknowledge that sometimes they aren't idiots. It was kind of fun to play a different part for a while

I'm still the same person, anything not related to my type that I've said has been true.

I still sense some bias against Sensors around here- nobody seems to want to be one for instance- so can you please tell me why? Would you have acted any differently towards me if I had joined as an ENTP?

people were catching onto me so I had to come out of the closet

That's interesting.
That throws my whole thinking into a tizzy.
You SAID you were an ESTP, but now you're saying you're really an ENTP?
So this whole time I thought I was interacting with an ESTP (and constantly having to re-think what I thought I knew about ESTPs) now it turns out, I haven't learned a doggone thing about ESTPs after all.
That's very frustrating.
Now I have to unlearn what I learned if only I could separate it out from all the other stuff.

You'll never know how we WOULD have treated you because it is what it is.

The only reason we started thinking sensors aren't actually idiots is because you are clearly not an idiot. You haven't proved that sensors aren't "idiots" since you are not actually a sensor.

Btw - let me make it perfectly clear, I have never thought sensors are stupid. I don't know where some people get that idea. I have never seen it in a profile.

 

[ygolo]

I wanted to add that I know plenty of sensors IRL, and they are NOT idiots. Whatever, did not need to do anything to convince me of this. Most are smarter than me, and are certainly more well-adjusted.

Granted, they're almost all IST- types. One of my closer friends tested ExTP, and he did seem a lot like whatever (depending how much she was acting, I guess).

 

[Journey]

Before I discovered type I thought of people as Anne of Green Gables's "kindred spirits" or not "kindred spirits" in that we could talk of philosophy, and other enthusiasms. When I discovered type, I wasn't surprised that there was a reason for this, just fascinated. I always had dear friends who were not "kindred spirits." I married a man who was not a "kindred spirit" because I loved him. He is, of course, a sensor. My sister who was the best friend to everyone and did everything right was an ESFJ, and that is what I would be if I could. Though my close friends tend to be NFs or NTs, I don't believe I have a sensor bias.