[INTP] Romantically connecting and communicating with an INTP guy?

[INTPness]

Something that frustrates some of the feelers in my life is the fact that I tend to share things organically, as they come up and are germain to the conversation at hand. It's always felt strange and unnatural to just volunteer a lot of extraneous information about myself. It can seem to others as if I"m being secretive, but really, it's just that it hasn't come up yet. But the intensely personal stuff? I have to know you and trust you a lot before I spill that. I have to know you're invested and trustworthy, and won't throw it back in my face or blab to others.

Bingo!

I have never really thought he was being secretive as much as I thought he just didn't trust me yet. I tend to feel people out before I trust them. It usually takes me quite some time to build up trust. Funny thing with him is that I have always felt like I could trust him. I'm at ease telling him stuff. But I think he is alot like you are describing. He tells stuff as it comes up. One time we were talking about his ex wife and he said she used to buy random useless things. I casually asked like what. He just said not to worry about it. So I've learned too that when he tells me stuff just to listen and not ask to many questions. He will shut down just as quick as he started talking. Tonight he called me and as we were talking he asked me what I meant by something I said like 2 weeks ago. I remembered what he was talking about, but what is up with waiting 2 weeks to ask. Do INTP's really sit on stuff that long thinking about it before they ask?

Time doesn't really matter to me in that way. From the day I meet someone, it's like I have a mental file of that person. And all of our conversations go into that file, whether it was a year ago or 1 hour ago. And everything in that file is accessible at any given moment. Sometimes for good, sometimes not so good. You may hear an INTP say something like, "A long time ago you told me X, but now you're saying something different and contradictory." And sometimes the other person will say to me, "When did I say that?" And I'll say, "I dunno, like 8 months ago - maybe a year." And they're like:

 

[memz]

Bingo!



Time doesn't really matter to me in that way. From the day I meet someone, it's like I have a mental file of that person. And all of our conversations go into that file, whether it was a year ago or 1 hour ago. And everything in that file is accessible at any given moment. Sometimes for good, sometimes not so good. You may hear an INTP say something like, "A long time ago you told me X, but now you're saying something different and contradictory." And sometimes the other person will say to me, "When did I say that?" And I'll say, "I dunno, like 8 months ago - maybe a year." And they're like:

This is exactly what happens. If I say something that he doesn't understand he will wait weeks sometimes months to ask me about it. How am I supposed to remember what I meant months ago when we probably weren't even talking about anything serious? Then if I answer the wrong way, he may think I meant something completely different or it may affect something negatively. I love that he asks me what I meant instead of assuming, as I often feel misunderstood myself. But sheesh that feels like alot of pressure.

 

[INTPness]

This is exactly what happens. If I say something that he doesn't understand he will wait weeks sometimes months to ask me about it. How am I supposed to remember what I meant months ago when we probably weren't even talking about anything serious? Then if I answer the wrong way, he may think I meant something completely different or it may affect something negatively. I love that he asks me what I meant instead of assuming, as I often feel misunderstood myself. But sheesh that feels like alot of pressure.

Doesn't need to be a lot of pressure. When he does this, just simply explain your thoughts. He's just trying to get clarification about how you feel or think about the issue.

 

[Coriolis]

Time doesn't really matter to me in that way. From the day I meet someone, it's like I have a mental file of that person. And all of our conversations go into that file, whether it was a year ago or 1 hour ago. And everything in that file is accessible at any given moment. Sometimes for good, sometimes not so good. You may hear an INTP say something like, "A long time ago you told me X, but now you're saying something different and contradictory." And sometimes the other person will say to me, "When did I say that?" And I'll say, "I dunno, like 8 months ago - maybe a year." And they're like:

If my INTP is anything to go by, however, they do not like it when someone else reminds them of what they said months ago.

 

[93JC]

We're contradictory like that.

(Mostly we just don't like being proven wrong.)

 

[21%]

Wow, this thread just made me remember how feeling my INFP really is

My dad is INTP, and everything that has been said seems right. He needs a lot of alone time to do his own thing. Sometimes that means 'all day long except at dinner'.

Regarding the OP's original issue with the 'no communication', I think it's also important for your INTP to realize that people really have different needs, and it doesn't mean that they are clingy and insecure (an undesirable 'flaw') just because they need more communication. In my case, I need to hear from my loved ones every day, because I grew up in a family that teaches you that you always have tell people or at least leave a note if you are going somewhere, always call if you're going to be late, always let people know where you are or what you are doing. If you don't, that means something bad has happened to you and people will start looking for you. So in my relationship, this becomes very important as well. If I were with an INTP I'd probably understand his need for space, but for the relationship to work, I don't think I will ever be able to deal with "I'll only call you whenever I feel like it and you'll have to accept that".

But then, six months isn't a very long time yet, so there will be time and room for more understanding. ISFPs tend to set NO boundaries in relationships and end up too accommodating -- so while you make adjustments on your side, don't forget that he should be trying to understand you more on his side too!

 

[INTPness]

If my INTP is anything to go by, however, they do not like it when someone else reminds them of what they said months ago.

Probably true.

Wow, this thread just made me remember how feeling my INFP really is

My dad is INTP, and everything that has been said seems right. He needs a lot of alone time to do his own thing. Sometimes that means 'all day long except at dinner'.

Regarding the OP's original issue with the 'no communication', I think it's also important for your INTP to realize that people really have different needs, and it doesn't mean that they are clingy and insecure (an undesirable 'flaw') just because they need more communication. In my case, I need to hear from my loved ones every day, because I grew up in a family that teaches you that you always have tell people or at least leave a note if you are going somewhere, always call if you're going to be late, always let people know where you are or what you are doing. If you don't, that means something bad has happened to you and people will start looking for you. So in my relationship, this becomes very important as well. If I were with an INTP I'd probably understand his need for space, but for the relationship to work, I don't think I will ever be able to deal with "I'll only call you whenever I feel like it and you'll have to accept that".

But then, six months isn't a very long time yet, so there will be time and room for more understanding. ISFPs tend to set NO boundaries in relationships and end up too accommodating -- so while you make adjustments on your side, don't forget that he should be trying to understand you more on his side too!

Yeah, once trust has been established and I know that we're both highly invested, then I make that decision that "yes, I'm committing myself fully to this and to her happiness". At that point, I have no problem keeping in close contact, calling/communicating what is going on in each other's lives, etc. It's not realistic to be in a relationship and to say, "I'll just call you whenever it's convenient for me and you'll just have to deal with it." That's pretty selfish. But, this particular relationship (OP) is still forming - boundaries are still being set, personalities are still being discovered, the "battlefield" is still being navigated so to speak. I have no "intentions" of purposely not calling the person I'm dating, but if I feel that they are not giving me adequate space, I will then create some space for myself. I will pull back and make sure that I have adequate time to do the things I need to do and to be me. I've only ever done this once, but I've had to literally turn off my phone for like 3 days and not check e-mail. Just tune things out because there was so much insecurity and she was needing to have like 4 hour discussions every single night to be reassured and she would take days off work to come spend the day with me. So, it was all day, every day sort of thing. And then after explaining that I needed space to myself, she said, "Oh, OK, well I'll just work on the computer and stay quiet." Ummmm, no, you're not getting it - we're together WAY too much and it's really starting to make my skin crawl.

When someone is so blinded that they can't even recognize or see that you're telling them to stop what they are doing, then you have to find another way to get your space. I remember telling her, "Look, we spent all day together Monday - not by plan, but by surprise because you suddenly took the day off from work, then we talked for 4 hours that night. Then on Tuesday, we spent 4 hours talking AGAIN - about the same thing. Wednesday I was sitting here doing my thing while watching the game on TV and you came over unannounced and took over the TV and kept telling me to watch every 2 minutes. I need some time. Some real time to myself. Maybe a week. Maybe even two. I just need to get back on my schedule, get back to doing the things I do. I'm starting to feel like a fish out of water here." Then she agrees, gets home, and starts sending out e-mails and long texts, etc. It's just too much. Phone is going off. I'm not checking my e-mail. Cuz you just don't get it.

I hate being put in positions like that (having to be "the bad guy") cuz I really do care. It's just too much sometimes. Be independent and I will love you til the cows come home. Be overbearing and I will scratch and claw and, quite frankly, you're probably not going to like me. It just won't work out in the long run. If you're forcing an INTP to spend time with you, the relationship is in big trouble. I promise you.

 

[21%]

Yeah, once trust has been established and I know that we're both highly invested, then I make that decision that "yes, I'm committing myself fully to this and to her happiness". At that point, I have no problem keeping in close contact, calling/communicating what is going on in each other's lives, etc. It's not realistic to be in a relationship and to say, "I'll just call you whenever it's convenient for me and you'll just have to deal with it." That's pretty selfish.

Ok, that makes perfect sense. The funny thing I had a discussion long time ago with the Fi folks and they seem to think something along the line of: "If I want to call you, I'll call you. It has to be motivated by my feelings, not by obligation. Otherwise it's just fake and worthless." In the end, however, they do care. They just have a problem with 'should's.

Thanks for this reply. It confirms something I have been thinking about

But, this particular relationship (OP) is still forming - boundaries are still being set, personalities are still being discovered, the "battlefield" is still being navigated so to speak. I have no "intentions" of purposely not calling the person I'm dating, but if I feel that they are not giving me adequate space, I will then create some space for myself.
...
It's just too much. Phone is going off. I'm not checking my e-mail. Cuz you just don't get it.

That's some pretty extreme clinginess...

I hate being put in positions like that (having to be "the bad guy") cuz I really do care. It's just too much sometimes. Be independent and I will love you til the cows come home. Be overbearing and I will scratch and claw and, quite frankly, you're probably not going to like me. It just won't work out in the long run. If you're forcing an INTP to spend time with you, the relationship is in big trouble. I promise you.

INTPs -- cuddly on the inside

 

[Coriolis]

My INTP used to show up on MY doorstep unnanounced, sometimes late, after getting back from travelling; and then want to spend the weekend together, even if it was just laundry and catching up on chores on the agenda. I guess this indicated serious commitment already, plus we usually had the whole workweek apart.

 

[INTPness]

That's some pretty extreme clinginess...

And so goes my ISFP experience. I would never say that all ISFP's are like this, but, sometimes this can happen in relationships - especially in those beginning stages where everything is new and fresh and one of the partner's starts to fall in love (we've probably all been there - where we feel like we're on cloud 9 - I know I have). She really was a sweet girl and lots of fun - she just gave up everything (hobbies, friends, even work sometimes, etc.) and wanted all of that time from me and wouldn't accomodate me when I voiced my frustrations. I just don't do well with that - cuz it means I have to give up everything myself. You can only sustain that for so long before you run out of energy.

INTPs -- cuddly on the inside

Always.

My INTP used to show up on MY doorstep unnanounced, sometimes late, after getting back from travelling; and then want to spend the weekend together, even if it was just laundry and catching up on chores on the agenda. I guess this indicated serious commitment already, plus we usually had the whole workweek apart.

Your INTP liked you - a lot!

 

[Redbone]

I hate being put in positions like that (having to be "the bad guy") cuz I really do care. It's just too much sometimes. Be independent and I will love you til the cows come home. Be overbearing and I will scratch and claw and, quite frankly, you're probably not going to like me. It just won't work out in the long run. If you're forcing an INTP to spend time with you, the relationship is in big trouble. I promise you.

Absolutely. I've had to do this and I always come off as being seen as 'mean' or 'cold'. "You've never acted like this before..." That's because you didn't listen to me. When I said I needed space, I meant just that. Trying to connect or contact at that point is like using an overheated circuit.

Unwise.

My INTP used to show up on MY doorstep unnanounced, sometimes late, after getting back from travelling; and then want to spend the weekend together, even if it was just laundry and catching up on chores on the agenda. I guess this indicated serious commitment already, plus we usually had the whole workweek apart.

Haha...you guys are still together, too, aren't you?

 

[Coriolis]

Haha...you guys are still together, too, aren't you?

> 10 years now . . . amazing someone could put up with me that long/at all.

 

[Santosha]

So my question for all you INTP's is what is the best way to communicate and feel connected with out being overly clingy? I know there is going to have to be some compromise. Are there any books or articles out there about these types of relationships? I welcome any advice or opinions. Thanks for reading.

Memz, I'm not an INTP but I wanted to touch on a few things here. Take it from a fellow feeler that has a NEED to be close, both physically and emotionally to the people I love. Probably one of the biggest mistakes I think I have made, romantically, is trying to alter myself and my needs too much, because I met someone that was really, really cool. It's understandeable. This guy is probably a great guy, and it is up to you how much of your own needs you want to change to meet his.

My question is.. how many of his needs is he letting slide to accomodate yours? You'll hear that mature individuals of any time can form a happy relation, and I don't doubt it. The question is.. what things can you bend on, and what things can't you. This autonomy and space does NOT seem to lighten up with INTP's, ime. This is actually one of their requirements.. and they are very unlikely to yield. Even when they do yeild, I see it as only temporary and something that causes resentment in them. So before you press on, invest alot of time and effort into someone, I think you should ask yourself if giving a partner alot of free time ALWAYS is something you want. I would not make the mistake of hoping that INTP dude is one day going to fall madly in love spending large amounts of time. He might fall madly in love, but he will ALWAYS need alone time and struggle with emotional intimacy and other feeler-ish concepts.

I just don't see the point in dragging yourself through it, when it is hard enough to maintain long-term relations with those that already have similar core needs. Just understand what you can bend on, and what you can't. I don't know all that many feelers that can bend on emotional needs and quality time. The s/n dynamic *could* be a problem in itself. Look at your life goals, consider what a happy relation is to you.. and ask yourself if INTP-dude is capeable of giving these things. If he's not, do yourself a favor and quit now.

This probably reads much harsher than intended. And NOT trying to down INTP's in anyway.. I've just seen alot of failed relations with INTP's over the exact problems your starting to run into.

 

[INTPness]

Memz, I'm not an INTP but I wanted to touch on a few things here. Take it from a fellow feeler that has a NEED to be close, both physically and emotionally to the people I love. Probably one of the biggest mistakes I think I have made, romantically, is trying to alter myself and my needs too much, because I met someone that was really, really cool. It's understandeable. This guy is probably a great guy, and it is up to you how much of your own needs you want to change to meet his.

My question is.. how many of his needs is he letting slide to accomodate yours? You'll hear that mature individuals of any time can form a happy relation, and I don't doubt it. The question is.. what things can you bend on, and what things can't you. This autonomy and space does NOT seem to lighten up with INTP's, ime. This is actually one of their requirements.. and they are very unlikely to yield. Even when they do yeild, I see it as only temporary and something that causes resentment in them. So before you press on, invest alot of time and effort into someone, I think you should ask yourself if giving a partner alot of free time ALWAYS is something you want. I would not make the mistake of hoping that INTP dude is one day going to fall madly in love spending large amounts of time. He might fall madly in love, but he will ALWAYS need alone time and struggle with emotional intimacy and other feeler-ish concepts.

I just don't see the point in dragging yourself through it, when it is hard enough to maintain long-term relations with those that already have similar core needs. Just understand what you can bend on, and what you can't. I don't know all that many feelers that can bend on emotional needs and quality time. The s/n dynamic *could* be a problem in itself. Look at your life goals, consider what a happy relation is to you.. and ask yourself if INTP-dude is capeable of giving these things. If he's not, do yourself a favor and quit now.

This probably reads much harsher than intended. And NOT trying to down INTP's in anyway.. I've just seen alot of failed relations with INTP's over the exact problems your starting to run into.

I agree with a lot of this. I think the reason a lot of us have unsuccessful relationships is that if it's not a "really good fit" naturally (from the beginning), then we aren't going to invest the time to make it work. We are very capable of having good, healthy, long-lasting relationships, but it has to be a "good fit" first - and then we will pour our energy into it and become invested. And part of it being a good fit (one part of many factors) is that the other person appreciates our need for space/autonomy. If they don't like that in us/appreciate us for who we are, why invest?

 

[memz]

Thank you everyone for the replies! I have to say that even though I have only been on the board for a few days I still feel like I have learned quite alot. My last 2 relationships I felt sort of abandoned, hence my sort of clinginess. Sure I am an ISFP, but I have needs to be left alone as well. My ex-husband was overbearing and jealous and I felt smothered. So I can appreciate some alone time and someone not being on my every move.

When I entered my current relationship, I had the insecuritity of him maybe saying he would call then not. But that never happened, so I have gotten a little more confident in that way. I have always known he is more the loner type. That is fine, but occassionally it is nice to hear that someone is thinking of you, or what ever. One thing that I now realizes helps us is that I am in school and live in a different town. So I don't see him every day. In the 2 weeks that we have been back together I think I have seen him maybe 2-3 times if that. I like that I am able to do my thing and he is able to do his. Over all of this time I have learned that I can rely on him and he gets the logistics of having kids. Those are huge comforts for me.

After reading alot of the posts and responses on this forum, I feel like I have a slightly better understanding of what he needs and how he thinks. No surprise that he never told me he loves his space or that he gives in depth info a little at a time as he gets to know me better. But now everything is making sense. I want to and willing to see where this relationship goes. I'm not one to give up on something because its not everything I expected. He may or may not always meet my needs, but then again am I always going to meet his? I know he tries to meet mine and I try to meet his, but we both have to learn to compromise. I don't text him all day long or even expect long conversations every night. I'm ok with the quick text saying its been a busy day and we will talk later. It does seem to get a little monotneous if we are only talking daily about what we ate for dinner and have nothing else to say. When we decided to get back together though, I told him that if something isn't working or if one of us are upset about something I would rather talk about it first. Then if we can't solve the issue discuss moving on.

 

[rav3n]

Bear in mind that discussing "feeling" topics can be like pulling teeth for an INTP and many NTs in general, particularly when it's a no win situation or they feel cornered. While subjective decision making and feelings in general are your comfort zone, imagine how exhausting it would be for you to act like an INTP. If you can imagine this, you can also figure out how to address conversations about emotions with an INTP. Perhaps objective and logical impersonal non-attacking observations might work better so he doesn't feel cornered.

 

[memz]

My INTP used to show up on MY doorstep unnanounced, sometimes late, after getting back from travelling; and then want to spend the weekend together, even if it was just laundry and catching up on chores on the agenda. I guess this indicated serious commitment already, plus we usually had the whole workweek apart.

I would never show up unannounced. Even though we have been together 6 months, I still call when he knows I am coming and I still knock on the door. I had his garage door opener for quite some time and could have gone over when ever and snooped but I never did. I wouldn't want it done to me, so I would never do it to someone else. I do however stay over there on my work weekends and sometimes on the other weekend if my kids go to their grandparents. He has left me there by myself if he had to go somewhere the next morning, and I have done the dishes and things like that. I really don't mind helping out since he is letting me stay there and has let me wash my uniforms before work the next day. Here is my question though...The last time I washed my uniform there and he threw in some other clothes with them, I asked him if he wanted me to fold the clothes as I dug for my uniform. He said no. Should I have just not asked and done it anyways? I don't want him thinking I am trying to invade in that way, but I also felt bad for not doing it since I was perfectly able. He said he knew I would have. I also seriously want to clean his bathrooms. If given the opportunity, would it be bad if I just did it instead of offering or asking? I feel silly for asking this, but I don't want to seem like I am invading space.

 

[memz]

Bear in mind that discussing "feeling" topics can be like pulling teeth for an INTP and many NTs in general, particularly when it's a no win situation or they feel cornered. While subjective decision making and feelings in general are your comfort zone, imagine how exhausting it would be for you to act like an INTP. If you can imagine this, you can also figure out how to address conversations about emotions with an INTP. Perhaps objective and logical impersonal non-attacking observations might work better so he doesn't feel cornered.

Can you give me an example of what you mean. I try really hard when I am telling him the way I am feeling to say "I feel..." and not use "you did this or that" or "You make me feel..." Well unless it is something good.

 

[rav3n]

Can you give me an example of what you mean. I try really hard when I am telling him the way I am feeling to say "I feel..." and not use "you did this or that" or "You make me feel..." Well unless it is something good.

Another INTP would be better at explaining what triggers them. But as an observer, consider their need for autonomy. If they feel you're trying to control their actions, they will withdraw further so it's logical to assume (and this might be presumptuous) that instead of trying to make them meet your needs, any requests must be framed as requests that are asking for their buy-in, in a manner that's as objective as feelings can be.

 

[memz]

Another INTP would be better at explaining what triggers them. But as an observer, consider their need for autonomy. If they feel you're trying to control their actions, they will withdraw further so it's logical to assume (and this might be presumptuous) that instead of trying to make them meet your needs, any requests must be framed as requests that are asking for their buy-in, in a manner that's as objective as feelings can be.

Thanks!