[MBTI General] ENFP vs. ENTP

[Night]

It does seem that N's, regardless of E/I preference, have a greater dislike for other people.

I'd actually wager that general dislike of others tends to be a TJ commodity.

In my experience, the N adds an element of extracurricular spice to personal suspicion (beyond the socially empirical) to formulate an opinion that matches their perspective of the world at large.

The NFJ for instance, will often trumpet towards a shared spiritual association with others, whereas the NTP likely views people as supporting variables within a greater cultural machine.

Does anyone agree/disagree?

 

[SillySapienne]

What in hee-haw hell is going on here.

I haven't slept in 22 hrs.

who are you people?

I love my internet strangers

DDNocapCCnemoDD

 

[Butterfly]

Butterfuly? how do you know me? lol maybe I am defined by others??

Which the truth be told I am to some extent, though like i said above, not once that defination starts to impinge upon my values...

mind you when I was younger, I'd have fought tooth and nail that no one defined me but me (which is actually true.. I after all choose to wear the labels others give me or I dont)

Dom, I dont really know you, but being an ENFP I can say that yes there may be certain aspects which are defined by others....BUT there is a BIG hidden side to us that others dont see and understand!!
Also its the self perception/image Versus Image which others see you in.
My public image might be different or a part of who I really am.! And that part is hidden ....deeeeeepppp in the dungeons Only special ppl can see it

 

[Butterfly]

I've described it like this, ENFPs bend and blend to accomodate others, too much too esily really. Then when that accomodation intrudes into our values, we stop accomodating and people see this as harsh, a sudden cold change, when really it is a response to people continually not appreicating or not caring that we are compromising...

Very well said!!!

 

[zarc]

I'd actually wager that general dislike of others tends to be a TJ commodity.

No Night! Don't create a new stereotype! But...I'm too scared to disagree with you...

In my experience, the N adds an element of extracurricular spice to personal suspicion (beyond the socially empirical) to formulate an opinion that matches their perspective of the world at large.

You think both Dom Ni and Dom Ne would be the same? Hmm. K. I don't think you do but you never seem wrong that it'd seem fun to tease you. (((I take it back! ))) erm.. Not only with the world at large but in particular to themselves too. Extracurricular spice.

The NFJ for instance, will often trumpet towards a shared spiritual association with others, whereas the NTP likely views people as supporting variables within a greater cultural machine.

Ah, I feel safe again. What about NFP or NTJ? Not safe again!

 

[Night]

No Night! Don't create a new stereotype! But...I'm too scared to disagree with you...



You think both Dom Ni and Dom Ne would be the same? Hmm. K. I don't think you do but you never seem wrong that it'd seem fun to tease you. (((I take it back! ))) erm.. Not only with the world at large but in particular to themselves too. Extracurricular spice.



Ah, I feel safe again. What about NFP or NTJ? Not safe again!

Too funny, DD.

Ecosystems vary based on atmosphere and geography. The MBTI provides an approximate legend into the generalities of our shared condition. Like any system of life, complex biological networks are ultimately responsible for the traits we identify and link to certain species. Alongside this, we find behaviors that absolutely confound our expectations and cause us to re-evaluate our understanding altogether...

As such, dominant and inferior traits can be linked - if not in (immediate) expression than certainly in habitat.

We just need more omnivores, no?

 

[zarc]

What in hee-haw hell is going on here.

I haven't slept in 22 hrs.

who are you people?

I love my internet strangers

DDNocapCCnemoDD

You altered it! LOL! I was so going to complain that I should be in the middle...but this is better. I'll do a wrap-around and Ni-squish all your Nes' from escaping. Focus the scattered. Ah.


I haven't slept....oh damn, I can't even recall since when... and we're not strangers anymore. Hmph. (Aren't we more than that?! )

 

[zarc]

Too funny, DD.

I'm sure ENTPs are spitting fire about now. Or one I know might..

Ecosystems vary based on atmosphere and geography. The MBTI provides an approximate legend into the generalities of our shared condition. Like any system of life, complex biological networks are ultimately responsible for the traits we identify and link to certain species. Alongside this, we find behaviors that absolutely confound our expectations and cause us to re-evaluate our understanding altogether...

Yes. I think that the behaviours which confound our current expectations are due to collective shifting of consciousness which is new/unknown. Biological d/evolution, albeit constrastingly and/or complimentary (mostly or--). Those who succeed, the few, complimentary whom likely accept even the worse states because they understand them and want to know them as they'd know they are still complimentary to each other (learning from them too, to keep improving from mistakes). The others, the many, contrastingly whom likely reject the better states because they misunderstand and fear them. But should they connect, it's beautiful and some of the many change too. I doubt it's an often coalescence-- I think those who contrast both ways really succeed in furthering the species along and steer their behaviours/consciousness while the few struggle on with their continued higher evolving existences...at least, I think that's more so currently the case but that there is shifting again which may be more positive (it's just a matter of time before it's either fully rejected/weeded out in favour of the contrast by the majority or half accepted..maybe fully...doubt it..). Re-evaluation will be seen as positive by those who find it meaningful or 'advantageous' to them, regardless if it's good or not. Or it'll be seen as 'advantageous' much too late by later generations who realised the error of the past. The cycle continues.. I hope I made sense, running on old Ni-energy.

Ah, I feel a bit jaded.

As such, dominant and inferior traits can be linked - if not in (immediate) expression than certainly in habitat.

You mean all the CP traits. I take Inferior to mean the 4th Inferior only. And yes, I believe that in order to evolve within our Type we need to balance and enhance the full spectrum of our CPs. When we do, we become Emotionally Healthy and Emotionally Mature, remaining so for long periods of time. Should we become Emotionally Unhealthy and Immature (there are various mixtures of all four which I've created...), it won't last as long because we had the self-awareness to recognise our bad habits/stresses and we can accept without guilt and move on. Becoming Emotionally happier, healthier people again!

Ah, I feel a bit joyed!

We just need more omnivores, no?

Not only that but we need to be self-aware in order to discern that everything taken will be used well and discarded without fear of doing so. Not self-deceitful, right?

Edit: I think these non-ENFP/ENTP posts should be in another Thread. (and I don't mean the teasing posts, either lol)

 

[Nocapszy]

Hay I'm a favorite!

Answer my question.

 

[Gabe]

OK, this is ending up a pretty interesting conversation. This relates to thinking-feeling preference ideas. soooo.
It sounds like we've got there, but I'll mention it anyway. Nice and mean don't really mean anything out of context.
I admit I haven't sorted out the ENTP thing yet. They usually seem 'nice' to me, but with introverted thinking, they might either actively call bullshit on something, and they can play devil's advocate as a way of trying to get others to better define thier principles.
All ENFPs probably like to think of themselves as nice. For ENFPs, the high amount of value judgement going on can make others uncomfortable. ENFPs often say that they hate a person or an organization with no restraint. People who have been judged by introverted feeling often find themselves ignored or directly disrespected.
-both extraverted intuition types can seem inconsiderate- being over-heroic-here's an example over-heroic extraverted perception (I'm not sure if it's ne or se yet): YouTube - Mozart Vs Salieri

speaking of mozart, if you want an example of Fi-Te (mainly Fi), here it is.
YouTube - S. Ramey & K. Moll "The Commendatore Scene" Don Giovanni

Also, with this stuff, there's a shadow component that can't be ignored. People are really nice about some stuff, but internalizing/indignant/rebellious about other stuff. If ENFPs were to use Ti principles and devil's advocate, it would be as a weapon. When faced with introverted thinking judgements an ENFP might say "What the hell is that supposed to mean" or they might just diliberately misunderstand the point/make fun of it-shadow stuff always means someone will probably act undiplomatic and overly defensive.

 

[Gabe]

That's fine. It'd be impossible to sort anyway without large quantities of drinks and closer proximity.

Just as long as you recognise that you are in fact wrong, this will be proven at a later date. I mean it's obvious... you're not even an INTP or nothin

You are wrong. it's a misconception about having a feeling preference that you're relying on. Whatever the whole nonsense about this actually means. Of course you have to define yourself in terms of others if you want to be a good person: do you improve understanding of something, or make a discovery that benifits humanity, or improve a situation among people around you, or make laws more just, of course it's in terms of other people. It's just that for our stupid culture, 'in terms of others' is supposed to mean 'Oh, what will the neighbors think?' but really it obviously means more than that (and often completely negates it). OK?

 

[Dom]

You are wrong. it's a misconception about having a feeling preference that you're relying on. Whatever the whole nonsense about this actually means. Of course you have to define yourself in terms of others if you want to be a good person: do you improve understanding of something, or make a discovery that benifits humanity, or improve a situation among people around you, or make laws more just, of course it's in terms of other people. It's just that for our stupid culture, 'in terms of others' is supposed to mean 'Oh, what will the neighbors think?' but really it obviously means more than that (and often completely negates it). OK?

The way followed xander's and butterflies coonversation was that Xander thinks Butterfly is defined by others, while butterfly was insisting that he/she isn't.

but you are right to be a "good" person you have to measure yourself against adn define yourself by, an accepted or agreed set of principals. Xander is almost certainly trying to get butterfly to accept that, rather than insisting that no one else has an influence on him/her..

Personally, others do define me to a certain level. The core stays me, and it is me that decides how much others influence how I choose to behave.

But back to your comment, in an ENTP devils advote way, could you please explain how or why this list: "do you improve understanding of something, or make a discovery that benifits humanity, or improve a situation among people around you, or make laws more just" is a list of GOOD things?

They are only GOOD by YOUR personal value judgement, and a Muslim funadmentalist would not consider out wester legal system as more "just" that Shiara law in the exact same way that we see Shiara law as much more "unjust" (if that's a real word..)

 

[Gabe]

The way followed xander's and butterflies coonversation was that Xander thinks Butterfly is defined by others, while butterfly was insisting that he/she isn't.

but you are right to be a "good" person you have to measure yourself against adn define yourself by, an accepted or agreed set of principals. Xander is almost certainly trying to get butterfly to accept that, rather than insisting that no one else has an influence on him/her..

Personally, others do define me to a certain level. The core stays me, and it is me that decides how much others influence how I choose to behave.

But back to your comment, in an ENTP devils advote way, could you please explain how or why this list: "do you improve understanding of something, or make a discovery that benifits humanity, or improve a situation among people around you, or make laws more just" is a list of GOOD things?

They are only GOOD by YOUR personal value judgement, and a Muslim funadmentalist would not consider out wester legal system as more "just" that Shiara law in the exact same way that we see Shiara law as much more "unjust" (if that's a real word..)

The thing is: it's not neccesarily an Agreed set of values. Particularily for ENFPs, when engaging in introverted feeling they will start with thier personal value judgements. Whether or not others agree is only an afterthought.
I think the misconception is that some folks are under an assumption that people who prefer feeling live by some kind of confucian-catch-22 of being governed by the feedback they get. And that is totally wrong. Both feeling attitudes have rules that are not influenced by feedback.
Oh, and YES, the part about GOOD is totally my personal value judgement, and I don't feel an obligation to justify it but I will. Just is fair, it hurts less people and when it does sting it is more likely to sting those who deserve it. Just is real word. It's one of the few words in modern english that conveys value correctly (in my personal, introverted-feeling opinion).
I don't think personal opinion should be devalued though, man. Either it's an honest evaluation or it's not. And the latter is not impossible-it's what people should aspire to.

 

[Desert Flower]

Is this cruelty only directed at people that ENFPs feel are weaker than them and can't strike back?

I apologize if I personally offended anyone by asking this question. I was genuinely curious.

Or is it some type of backlash from trying to be so nice all the time and keeping the anger pent up?

This question is more influenced by my own experiences. Often I find myself being “nice” to people because:
*I want to be able to step back and analyze their character under the pretense of being “harmless” and not making the other person feel like they are being probed
*Once I’ve figured them out it seems like I have an obligation not to use their emotional vulnerabilities against them (However, I don’t know if other people will do the same for me, so I hide part of myself)
*If I can, I try to help them work through their troubles

My obligations can become a problem when someone starts antagonizing me because they think I am “too nice”. In reality, I could easily crush them by throwing all their mental complexes back in their face. Eventually, if the person doesn’t take my subtle hints to back off, I’ll blow up. But by that time I have collected so much data by analyzing their behavior that is seems unfair and makes me come across as slightly heartless. However, the only alternative is to completely “delete” the person from my life. In recent years, I’ve tried to block out people’s emotions to keep my mental balance. Also I've curbed my passive aggressive behavior by being more verbal about my perceptions. But I’ve found that this backfires because the person holds more of themselves back in an attempt to avoid being analyzed. In all honesty, I wanted to determine if ENFPs do similar things in RL.

 

[Butterfly]

Im a SHE...therefore a pretty butterfly Otherwise I wouldve chosen the nick RHINO hehe

 

[Dom]

The thing is: it's not neccesarily an Agreed set of values. Particularily for ENFPs, when engaging in introverted feeling they will start with thier personal value judgements. Whether or not others agree is only an afterthought.
I think the misconception is that some folks are under an assumption that people who prefer feeling live by some kind of confucian-catch-22 of being governed by the feedback they get. And that is totally wrong. Both feeling attitudes have rules that are not influenced by feedback.
Oh, and YES, the part about GOOD is totally my personal value judgement, and I don't feel an obligation to justify it but I will. Just is fair, it hurts less people and when it does sting it is more likely to sting those who deserve it. Just is real word. It's one of the few words in modern english that conveys value correctly (in my personal, introverted-feeling opinion).
I don't think personal opinion should be devalued though, man. Either it's an honest evaluation or it's not. And the latter is not impossible-it's what people should aspire to.

I'm playing now...

is it just to cut of a thief's hand? A whole section of this world believes that it is, and a larger section believe that it is not, and neither require that the dictionary definiation needs to be changed...

 

[nemo]

I'm wondering, any of you ENPs:

Is meeting another ENP in real life as explosive and electrifying for you guys as it invariably has been for me?

It's been my experience that there's a certain kind of chemistry Ne shares, and when two people who have it strongly find each other, their imaginations go berserk and take off on a marathon of intellectual orgies.

For me, this is very intoxicating: most other people seem so dreary and unwilling to play with me to at my highest intensity levels, although I'll admit it takes a bit for me to drop my guard fully. But once it's gone, it rocks my world.

Anyway, just curious.

 

[persse]

well,i must admit meeting an entp is really funny and i generally get along very well with them. and we can also talk profound stuff and laugh together. an enfp+entp combination is an "explosive" combination

 

[Nocapszy]

@nemo

Yeah, intoxicating is the best word. Like many other drugs, the best time is the first time.

 

[zarc]

I'm wondering, any of you ENPs:

Is meeting another ENP in real life as explosive and electrifying for you guys as it invariably has been for me?

It's been my experience that there's a certain kind of chemistry Ne shares, and when two people who have it strongly find each other, their imaginations go berserk and take off on a marathon of intellectual orgies.

For me, this is very intoxicating: most other people seem so dreary and unwilling to play with me to at my highest intensity levels, although I'll admit it takes a bit for me to drop my guard fully. But once it's gone, it rocks my world.

Anyway, just curious.

Non-Domn Ne but I'm gonna answer anyway! It's *breath* B/C YOU'RE MIRROR COUSINS IN TYPE!

I'd imagine most/some mirror cousins will get along well. Such as INTJs and INFJs. But I imagine Dom Ns and Dom Ss will befriend better as they match right away before T vs F separate them, opposed to Dom Ts and Dom Fs b/c they oppose right off the bat (and their Doms are the 8th Demonic of the other...INTP Ti vs INFP Fi being the 8th Demonic of the other... ninja.

I've yet to read on anyone saying the same but it's an Ni-ed guess!

I apologize if I personally offended anyone by asking this question. I was genuinely curious.

My obligations can become a problem when someone starts antagonizing me because they think I am "too nice". In reality, I could easily crush them by throwing all their mental complexes back in their face. Eventually, if the person doesn't take my subtle hints to back off, I'll blow up. But by that time I have collected so much data by analyzing their behavior that is seems unfair and makes me come across as slightly heartless. However, the only alternative is to completely "delete" the person from my life. In recent years, I've tried to block out people's emotions to keep my mental balance. Also I've curbed my passive aggressive behavior by being more verbal about my perceptions. But I've found that this backfires because the person holds more of themselves back in an attempt to avoid being analyzed. In all honesty, I wanted to determine if ENFPs do similar things in RL.

No problem. It was just how you phrased all ENFPs as being a certain way that was the issue.

As to the rest of your post, I am almost the same. People try to use me after realsing how nice I am, especially those I'm helping out or doing things for (w/o being asked by them, as well) or they try to but realise how cold I'll become ("Oh, well I know you wouldn't do it! haha JK!"- Me: :rolli: "I won't, that's right. Go find a more gullible person")-- I was never passive-aggressive though. I'm very direct unless I'd keep it all within without anyone being aware until provoked enough into eruption... I tell them. They don't listen. I tell them again. I realised the certain patterns on my continuous helping of unworthy people (in the sense they didn't deserve my help and need to learn for themselves). It's like karma. They come back and back and I'd let'em and let'em. Delete them all to avoid them but now it's a deliberate "I'm deleting you. I wish you the best" (which is a worse "How dare you!" backlash than "We don't see you anymore! Why?" Me: "Umm.." RUN or run if I intuit their approach). Became (not by choice and then by choice) outwardly cool/cold to shield myself. People often think me a snob or a mean person until they talk to me and I respond. Can destroy people. I imagine it's more of "I know which values/emotions/beliefs to decimate you." and I do it in a very cold and stoically faced way, rarely is it firey (that's just at eruption point) and people almost always become firey or more in return- And I'll deliberately isolate myself for longer periods of times due to such people and my past failure to emotionally separate sooner.

But I've learned those patterns and rarely make such mistakes anymore! I can be more Fe-skinned without Ni-paranoid fears! Or I can shield up with Ti if so and Se to another place away from them!