[MBTI General] Advice/Opinions Needed: INTJ female/ISTP male

[Calida]

Thanks for the input, I will now work on the suggestions

This thread is now closed.

 

[Orangey]

Desiring praise from an authority is not an ISTP trait. And why would being a sensor cause one to be offended by challenges to their logic, especially if they are also a T?

 

[Calida]

N/A

 

[Orangey]

Maybe you could tell me instead. Most sensors I've encountered, blows up in all sorts of direction when it comes to the logic/human interaction combination.

Maybe you've mistyped these people, or maybe they're just particularly volatile, or maybe they have personal problems. I don't know. I do know, however, that whatever their problem may be, it has nothing to do with being a sensor per se.

I should reword praise--it is really some form of authoritative structural reinforcement.

I wasn't reacting to the choice of words. The meaning is still the same regardless of how you rephrase it. I will say again that needing "authoritative structural reinforcement" has no typological basis in an ISTP. If your SO is indeed like this, then either he has some other reason besides being an ISTP to behave that way (e.g., maybe he's a phobic enneagram 6) or he's not an ISTP.

 

[Calida]

N/A

 

[freeeekyyy]

You seem to be focusing on the S and nothing more. Do you know how to communicate with INTPs? Due to their shared dominant Ti, ISTPs and INTPs are quite similar in communication styles. Obviously, being an S, ISTPs are more concrete, but both rely on a system of internal logic to decide on things. You need to gain an understanding of Ti, and apply it to your situation. Communicate your ideas in a way that that person can understand. Also, in your statement about authority, I think you might be confusing SP and SJ temperaments. SPs are very likely to be indifferent to authority, if not to actively disdain it.

 

[Orangey]

Off track for a minute:
1) Evidently from your replies, I cannot communicate effectively with ISTP-- and it's not an attack, a simple circumstantial evidence.
2) Regardless of issues, how well do you get along with INTJ?


3) I don't believe Jung has taken mental/emotional state into account in terms of typology--so issues so personal problems or not, I am going by the result and the data that I have on hand as right now, he is indicated by ISTP.

4) Sensor: Since "experience speaks louder than words", information processing is in terms of relations and life is not necessarily from an objective point of view of extracted words. For example, if a person is irritated at themselves, not at the sensor directly, sensor would react accordingly to their experience. In this case regardless of what the situation is intended to be, between N and S CAN result in some kind of misunderstanding or a meltdown.

Problem being reactive for a sensor, in my opinion, is that the "gathering information" in terms of senses, sometimes is not complete while they feel pressured to reply immediately. As a result, the things being said has become a trigger to all sorts of possibility while the original message is not delivered at all.

1. Well I'm having difficulty understanding your English TBH. Is this your native tongue?

2. For the most part I get along great with INTJs and NTJs in general. When I was a grad student, I had an INTJ friend who studied philosophy at a neighboring university; we got along very well and never really had any communication problems. We also shared a similar sense of humor. My brother is an ENTJ and we also get along well; we rarely run into issues or get angry at one another. Communication is generally easy and pleasant between us.

3. Are you just straight up admitting that you're generalizing from your supposedly ISTP SO's behavior to ISTPs in general? Because, you know, it's not really logical to do that.

4. First of all, none of the perceiving functions have anything to do with objectivity, so I don't even know why you brought that up. Also, conflicts in communication cannot be boiled down simply to S vs. N. The functions Ne, Ni, Se, and Si are all significantly different, and are all capable (when in a primary position in someone's function stack) of rubbing each other the wrong way during communication. If we're going to talk about conflicts between them, then, we need to talk about the specific functions involved in specific instances, not S and N broadly. Lastly, your examples of conflict don't really make any sense to me on their own, much less as representatives of particular N and S functions clashing.

Surely you and I both understand that repeating and rephrasing things again would not gain further understanding. What you said, has a good point but at the same time I acknowledge that I have confused from ISTP specific with ITP profile. Nonetheless, ITP has certain traits while reacting to guidance.

Pertaining to this specific case, my partner did not have any feedback while growing up, hence display certain type of childhood needs (as indicated within psychology). With that said, certain needs for reaffirmation has remained as indicated found in Portrait of an ITP Child.

I really don't understand what you're saying here at all. And your link just takes you back to this thread.

I am afraid again, this is the perfect example of how I lack the ability to communicate with ISTP. If you would like to address the core issue--that being communication means between INTJ to ISTP, that would be great.
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With all that said, these aren't the issue--if you are able to help in terms of communication/expression that could minimize the gap, great. If the focus is on proving me wrong, I respect that as well--though this is not the intent of this thread.

How does our limited interaction here indicate that you don't have the ability to communicate with ISTPs? Can you not comprehend what I've written? Or do you just interpret any criticism or disagreement with you to be as a result of typological miscommunication?

I understand perfectly well the intended purpose of the thread; you want advice and anecdotes about ISTP/INTJ communication and relationship problems. What YOU'RE not understanding is that further conversation on the subject would be useless if there's not a shared basic understanding of the functions and types under discussion among the participants. For example, since "needing affirmation (or whatever word you choose to use) from an authority" is not AT ALL a typical ISTP trait, and isn't even necessarily an S trait in general, then there isn't really anything that anyone could say to help you solve your problems.

Also, I just hate when people (you) say things that are heinously wrong, such as suggesting that sensing makes a person less amenable to logic and more prone to emotional sensitivity.

You seem to be focusing on the S and nothing more. Do you know how to communicate with INTPs? Due to their shared dominant Ti, ISTPs and INTPs are quite similar in communication styles. Obviously, being an S, ISTPs are more concrete, but both rely on a system of internal logic to decide on things. You need to gain an understanding of Ti, and apply it to your situation. Communicate your ideas in a way that that person can understand. Also, in your statement about authority, I think you might be confusing SP and SJ temperaments. SPs are very likely to be indifferent to authority, if not to actively disdain it.

This.

 

[Calida]

You seem to be focusing on the S and nothing more. Do you know how to communicate with INTPs? Due to their shared dominant Ti, ISTPs and INTPs are quite similar in communication styles. Obviously, being an S, ISTPs are more concrete, but both rely on a system of internal logic to decide on things. You need to gain an understanding of Ti, and apply it to your situation. Communicate your ideas in a way that that person can understand. Also, in your statement about authority, I think you might be confusing SP and SJ temperaments. SPs are very likely to be indifferent to authority, if not to actively disdain it.

Thank you! Alas, a concrete solution--yes I know how to get along very well with INTPs. You have provided me with a few good points such as reliance on INTERNAL logic as well as pointing me towards my Ti development in order to communicate.

Regarding confusion with SP and SJ noted. Though I must admit in this specific case, I have been questioning his distribution between P and J to be honest. His love for animals has caught me off guard as he told me that he is an ISTP.

 

[Calida]

1. Well I'm having difficulty understanding your English TBH. Is this your native tongue?

No, English is not my native tongue. With that said, I appreciate your response despite having a hard time understanding my English.

2. For the most part I get along great with INTJs and NTJs in general. When I was a grad student, I had an INTJ friend who studied philosophy at a neighboring university; we got along very well and never really had any communication problems. We also shared a similar sense of humor. My brother is an ENTJ and we also get along well; we rarely run into issues or get angry at one another. Communication is generally easy and pleasant between us.

Thank you for also reminding me about the idea of identifying through something common ie. sharing a similar sense of humor with your INTJ friend.

3. Are you just straight up admitting that you're generalizing from your supposedly ISTP SO's behavior to ISTPs in general? Because, you know, it's not really logical to do that.

I am straight up saying that this post is created for the sole purpose of interacting with my partner. With or without personal issues, he is indicated as an ISTP. As a result, I can only seek opinions from people by identifying him as "ISTP" right now. By no means am I saying that all ISTP acts like my partner, and by no means am I saying that all ISTP are the same. As I have also responded to freeeekyyy, that I might have confused with a trait from a TJ as well. (See above)

4. First of all, none of the perceiving functions have anything to do with objectivity, so I don't even know why you brought that up. Also, conflicts in communication cannot be boiled down simply to S vs. N. The functions Ne, Ni, Se, and Si are all significantly different, and are all capable (when in a primary position in someone's function stack) of rubbing each other the wrong way during communication. If we're going to talk about conflicts between them, then, we need to talk about the specific functions involved in specific instances, not S and N broadly. Lastly, your examples of conflict don't really make any sense to me on their own, much less as representatives of particular N and S functions clashing.

This is helpful in terms of exploring the Ne, Ni, Se, and Si in order to not rub someone the wrong way. As for the rest of your point--it's acknowledged. I respect that you cannot see any sense into my examples, and I do not wish to pursue the examples any further since you have pointed me towards a good direction.

How does our limited interaction here indicate that you don't have the ability to communicate with ISTPs? Can you not comprehend what I've written? Or do you just interpret any criticism or disagreement with you to be as a result of typological miscommunication?


I understand perfectly well the intended purpose of the thread; you want advice and anecdotes about ISTP/INTJ communication and relationship problems. What YOU'RE not understanding is that further conversation on the subject would be useless if there's not a shared basic understanding of the functions and types under discussion among the participants. For example, since "needing affirmation (or whatever word you choose to use) from an authority" is not AT ALL a typical ISTP trait, and isn't even necessarily an S trait in general, then there isn't really anything that anyone could say to help you solve your problems.

I understand what you have written in general, and I understand that you disagree with me. However, I was more concerned with the original purpose of this thread as I have stated earlier. You are welcome to criticize and correct me--which you have done, but I was a little disappointed that the overall question was still unresolved initially.

As much as I appreciate that you would like to correct and establish the initial definition at first, I was also looking for the "follow up" part. Which means upon correcting me that I am wrong, do state the solutions and approach. Until your most recent post, you have not provided me with any pointers apart from your disagreement. Being wrong, is not the ultimate solution. Being corrected is only step one. How to correct and re-approach a situation upon correction, is what I am looking for.

If you wish to provide me with more insight, that would be great as well.

Also, I just hate when people (you) say things that are heinously wrong, such as suggesting that sensing makes a person less amenable to logic and more prone to emotional sensitivity.

Noted

 

[Randomnity]

Well I came in this thread because I dated a IxTJ for a while. But I'm not sure experiences will be of any help because you've said some things that seem quite bizarre and I'm not sure where you're getting your information. It would help to read some past threads on this forum about Ti and ISTPs (there are some good ones and some bad ones here, though).

For example,

I understand that this is extremely rare

rare compared to esfj+istp, maybe....

and he desires praise from authority like one.

However, he is an ISTP who loves to read--mostly about physics, sometimes fiction and other times I catch him reading Noam Chomsky and Naomi Klein.

This is not at all strange, though perhaps not stereotypical. Read the forum. While I'm not personally a fan of philosophy, some istps here are, and I am a voracious reader.

To add to the oddity, he also LOVES animals and he enjoys jamming with his band.

Ok now I really want to know where you get your information. I'm almost surprised when an istp doesn't do these. The only type more likely for them is isfp.

Also, my thoughts and words can come off to an S as harsh as well,

Not sure why you think S means emotionally sensitive. You are thinking of F, which is not even universally true. Some NTs as well as STs can be quite sensitive, and many many many Ts have learned how to be tactful with their words as well.

2) Gender Roles and Reversal
As much as I enjoy existing the way I am (when alone), it has been proven difficult for me to find a proper relational platform when it comes to gender relations. Because leadership, decision making analytical mind, and logic are traditionally associated with male roles. Therefore, I find it challenging to relate to my partner as he is the male.

So uh, how exactly is a male ISTP not precisely the male stereotype? Leadership, decision making, analytical mind and logic are stereotypically associated with ISTP along with "the male". So I don't really know what kind of crack you're smoking, seriously.

As a sensor, he in turn takes emotional offense to it; thus losing his pride so to speak and get hurt. Sometimes I can come off as threatening to sensors as well due to the logical side.

I think here you're using sensor as a euphemism for "people who aren't that bright" because this is not an S trait.

I wish I could help but I think you need a better understanding of type before we can begin to have a conversation of this sort about it. Perhaps he's mistyped (isfp/isfj seems more likely than istp from what you've written here), or just a somewhat unusual istp. People don't always fit into their type stereotypes - but I'm very confused about the basic type stereotypes you've described, they really make no sense.

Btw, I'm not attacking you nor feeling attacked. Just explaining why you might not get the kind of response you want. As an INTJ, you should relate to that. I've never in my life heard anyone say istps are typically oversensitive by the way so that was a good laugh.

Also, what Orangey said.

edit: I find intjs one of the easiest types to get along with, actually. But I don't believe in generalizing type interactions. Some istps can't stand intjs, I'm sure.

 

[Calida]

Well I came in this thread because I dated a IxTJ for a while. But I'm not sure experiences will be of any help because you've said some things that seem quite bizarre and I'm not sure where you're getting your information. It would help to read some past threads on this forum about Ti and ISTPs (there are some good ones and some bad ones here, though).

This is not at all strange, though perhaps not stereotypical. Read the forum. While I'm not personally a fan of philosophy, some istps here are, and I am a voracious reader.

Ok now I really want to know where you get your information. I'm almost surprised when an istp doesn't do these. The only type more likely for them is isfp.

Ok fine maybe not strange, but like you said--not stereotypical. Also by the music and animal part is that he gets EXTREMELY happy and excited when he interacts with animals or plays music. Other times, he can be pretty stoic and unmoved.

Not sure why you think S means emotionally sensitive. You are thinking of F, which is not even universally true. Some NTs as well as STs can be quite sensitive, and many many many Ts have learned how to be tactful with their words as well.

As I have addressed above, it's from personal experience. It's not my perception of all ISTP, so I hope no offense is taken. If I have met someone like you or Orangey, my statement would have been phrased differently. Oh don't get me wrong, he's VERY tactful with his words when he chooses to speak. I'm the one who isn't tactful with my words--and my concern is his reception of what/how I communicate to him.

So uh, how exactly is a male ISTP not precisely the male stereotype? Leadership, decision making, analytical mind and logic are stereotypically associated with ISTP along with "the male". So I don't really know what kind of crack you're smoking, seriously.

Not smoking crack, just smoking cigarettes while dealing with abstract idesa. What I have mentioned is in terms of exercising these elements within the domestic setting. He is really good at processing information quickly and analysis in terms of things that are related to his skills. However, for abstract thinking or planning within the domestic setting, his leadership and decision making needs a lot of work (as he has mentioned to me).

I just want to make a quick note that I have filtered out some information in my first post because I didn't think they were important for people to know. Big mistake. Through the interaction with you and Orangey, I am able to realize that what I deem as important and what both of you deem as important, are completely different matter. That's a really good reminder for me, thanks.

I think here you're using sensor as a euphemism for "people who aren't that bright" because this is not an S trait.

This is not true, so I am sorry if you have gotten this impression. Again, this is case specific to my partner... but I think that he is extremely bright and talented. I have learned a more from him than anyone I've been with in the past. However, what I am saying is that if I require my partner to think in the same pattern as I do, it would take longer. Similarly, if my partner somehow expects me to think like he does, it would take longer as well. So thanks for identifying the flaw regarding unrealistic expectation.

I wish I could help but I think you need a better understanding of type before we can begin to have a conversation of this sort about it. Perhaps he's mistyped (isfp/isfj seems more likely than istp from what you've written here), or just a somewhat unusual istp. People don't always fit into their type stereotypes - but I'm very confused about the basic type stereotypes you've described, they really make no sense.

I'm as confused about his type as you. Like I've mentioned, I am going by the result that I was given. We could speculate all the possibilities that we want, but I agree, some quirks here/there seem to be a little off. Nonetheless, he's really sharp when it comes to math and physics, and he likes doing hands on work much more than being in an office.

Btw, I'm not attacking you nor feeling attacked. Just explaining why you might not get the kind of response you want. As an INTJ, you should relate to that. I've never in my life heard anyone say istps are typically oversensitive by the way so that was a good laugh.

Mmm good that you had a good laugh I don't feel like I'm being attacked either. In fact, I have learned quite a bit from you two from the way you two ISTP's in the ways you criticize my approach as well as perspectives.

I think I might have used sensitive in the wrong way? I don't know. Is "reactive" the proper word for this situation? What I meant by "sensitive' is that he can have strong (internal) opinions and reaction towards something that I would regard as a passing comment. Much like the interaction with you two ISTP, my immediate thought would be "Ok, the strong reaction and opinion that you throw back at me, is definitely NOT the intent to my statement".

Thanks once again, for putting up with me
I can actually see a better pattern by conversing with both of you. Maybe my responses have left you completely dissatisfied and you're convinced that I'm smoking crack, but that's totally fine by me. Just know that I appreciate your approach, criticism and feedback, since I'm already gaining a better understanding on how to handle the matter.

 

[freeeekyyy]

Thank you! Alas, a concrete solution--yes I know how to get along very well with INTPs. You have provided me with a few good points such as reliance on INTERNAL logic as well as pointing me towards my Ti development in order to communicate.

Regarding confusion with SP and SJ noted. Though I must admit in this specific case, I have been questioning his distribution between P and J to be honest. His love for animals has caught me off guard as he told me that he is an ISTJ.

ISTPs do often test as ISTJ. I'm not really sure why, but a lot of the MBTI tests do a poor job of determining that particular type. He probably took the test and accepted it, figuring it was close enough, not knowing that there was a more fitting type. Both ISTJs and ISTPs are very practical, so there are some similarities.