Effects of Type Consciousness

[s0532]

I wonder if type consciousness is more important to INTPs in particular- are the recurrent stories of increased self-acceptance peculiar to them?

 

[MacGuffin]

I wonder if type consciousness is more important to INTPs in particular- are the recurrent stories of increased self-acceptance peculiar to them?

My theory: INTPs (and similar types) are at odds with the general character of most society. Maybe only the T is generally accepted. Hell, look at job listings: they want people-persons that are detail-oriented and organized. Screw that!

INFPs probably have it worse.

 

[cafe]

I think I felt more accepting of myself. It made sense why I didn't really fit.

Now that I recognize that, for all practical purposes, I am the freak, I try to humor the non-freaks when it doesn't take inordinate amounts of energy to do so. I mean, I'm pretty normal for my type, but my type is relatively rare and people don't really know what to do with us, so sometimes I'm just going to get looks like I just sprouted four additional heads. *shrug*

I've come to the decision that I like myself and that I would be my friend if I were me. Most of the people that actually get to know me like me, too. People that don't I pretty much just write off.

 

[FemMecha]

I wonder if type consciousness is more important to INTPs in particular- are the recurrent stories of increased self-acceptance peculiar to them?

There is also the history for this context. This forum's pre-history focused primarily on INTP = belonging, whereas other types not so much. E's have been criticized regularly, S's most of all, F's to some degree, and J's every now and again. It's the stereotyping when people presume to know what (and if) a person's values are, what their mind is capable of, and the degree of emotion they must be feeling, that MBTI starts to seem like one step forward, two steps back in understanding people.

My theory: INTPs (and similar types) are at odds with the general character of most society. Maybe only the T is generally accepted. Hell, look at job listings: they want people-persons that are detail-oriented and organized. Screw that!

INFPs probably have it worse.

INTPs have some ability with detail, and are generally easy-going, but do prefer to avoid people. Martoon is one of the easiest people on the face of the earth to work with. Being detached and easy-going has significant benefits in the work-place. There is some benefit towards extroversion and judging in the work force, however, those taken to an extreme also cause terrible problems. I'd venture to say there are a number of types who have a much greater difficulty adjusting to the work place than INTPs. (It also depends on the type of work) This is especially true with the work force becoming more technical. Just my $.02.

 

[proteanmix]

I wonder if type consciousness is more important to INTPs in particular- are the recurrent stories of increased self-acceptance peculiar to them?

I wonder also, because very few of the other type groups are very active. Out of intuitives, I notice that ENJs are especially low activity.

 

[Alienclock]

I act more INTP now, because I feel more secure in embracing it. Before I'd suppress it to do the "right" or "practical" thing. When often such things were neither right or practical... at least for me.

The problem is if you embrace type as an excuse....."

I generally agree with this. Oddly I feel better knowing that I am not just odd, I am a type... and that there is an explanation... sorta, and there are others like me, sorta.

My theory: INTPs (and similar types) are at odds with the general character of most society. Maybe only the T is generally accepted. Hell, look at job listings: they want people-persons that are detail-oriented and organized. Screw that!

INFPs probably have it worse.

Well, sorta. Probably male infps have it worse, then again, perhaps being accepted by society is vastly overrated.

To the great dismay of those who especially desire to be a robot, there is no getting around the fact they their brains contain[....] "the two structures in the brain mainly responsible for long-term remembering are located in the 'emotional system'." ... "The frontal lobe is the executive control center of the brain, monitoring higher-order thinking, directing problem solving, and regulating the excesses of the emotional system." David Sousa.

If a person actually has no emotions it is because the organ that is their brain is not fully functioning. If a person has no control of their emotions, the same is true.

Darn, there go my hopes! How are the odds of becoming a cyborg? I mean cybernetic augmentation... Its like you are saying an unemotional robot person can't be smart. Its also like saying that thought and emotion are intertwined....

.....This forum's pre-history focused primarily on INTP = belonging, whereas other types not so much. E's have been criticized regularly, S's most of all, F's to some degree, and J's every now and again. It's the stereotyping when people presume to know what (and if) a person's values are, what their mind is capable of, and the degree of emotion they must be feeling, that MBTI starts to seem like one step forward, two steps back in understanding people.

... I won't say type consciousness is more important to intps, however, prejudices are part of the human condition and apparently no one is exempt. Its part of wanting to be part of the main, dominant group... Or something. Its just that intps probably are really good at rationalizing things, without realizing it, cause they are very thinking, and not necessarily impressed with the need and use of emotion, so they don't really give much weight to the emotional issues that would keep an infp from doing the same thing. I have probably generalized too much.

Enjs may be less active on a forum because they are E, (they reach out and touch more without the net) and are out there meeting deadlines with their J. I don't know.

ps. I am INFP.

 

[s0532]

My theory: INTPs (and similar types) are at odds with the general character of most society. Maybe only the T is generally accepted. Hell, look at job listings: they want people-persons that are detail-oriented and organized. Screw that!

INFPs probably have it worse.

Right, and aside from the misfit experience, many of us also seem to share the fuckup and existential angst conundrums.

And yes, I was hoping to hear from INFPs and others on this. I'm curious to hear about how type awareness affects others, how similar or varied the interests in mbti.

There is also the history for this context.

Right, and I suspect there are reasons why INTPs were the type to come together with enough momentum to make an mbti type-oriented forum take off.

And yes, I'd agree mbti theory is often misinterpreted/ misapplied toward unproductive stereotyping.

 

[Tayshaun]

One of the consequences of type consciousness is a repeated pattern in my thought streams.

The broken record sample is the following:

[Trivial event takes place]

"That was typical INTP behavior!" ejaculates voice#1.
"Are you sure? Questions skeptical voice#2
"Bear in mind voice#2, that you can never be sure of anything." Voice#1 feels good repeating the saying he has brooded over thousands of times since his obsession for clarity took shape before his teenage years. This was often the conclusion of other dialogs and this remembered generic wisdom soothes him.

"This itself was an INTP comment and the thinking process which lead to it as well!" accuses mischievous voice#2. At this point voice#1, trapped in the loop, but secretly proud of voice#2's ingenuity, can only concede. To get out of the loop he directs the conversation to more fertile grounds:

"We are taking MBTI too seriously. Trying to figure out whether our behavior is in accord with what could be predicted from the function dynamics of the INTP role the same way one solves a puzzle is one thing; but there is an underlying perverted element of search for a Code of Living from the model that gives it a too strong and illegitimate authority."

Voice#2 intervenes, but instead of sabotage by spiraling it all back to the loop, he decides to play Mr. Safe, and full of condescension recites:

"Everybody is prejudiced in one way or the other. Fitting items in abstract boxes is cognitive, the brain works that way. It cannot be helped, it is instinctive. MBTI provides a very attractive model and you should not be ashamed of your desire to classify the unclassifiable. Rather, you should always remember that temperament, functions, roles are concepts that can maybe help you deal with your environment and cope with your existential angst, but they are too vague and unreliable to provide satisfactory answers. They remain abstract tools which will never take into account the infinity of parameters required to give a good approximation in the real world. Play around with the models, dwell in the depths of theory and speculation but never accept to give in to the temptation of explaining everything and adhering body and soul. Do not succumb to the charm of promised miraculous understanding at your fingertips."

I accuse type consciousness of bringing this noisy chitchat in my mind and especially the loop part.

 

[sundowning]

What kinds of effects have learning about MBTI and identifying with a type had on you?

I've been thinking lately that I believe I behave more INTP now than I did when I was younger. Could be due to many reasons, lots of transitions in the past few years, but I would say the simplest explanation is probably type awareness.

Seems like a good idea to take stock, every now and then, of how type consciousness might impact one's behavior.

I had hoped to find something in personality theory, but I'm not sure I did.

Okay, that's unfair. I was introduced to the idea that the gamut of types is a Good Thing(TM), and was further convinced by the notion it's good/okay/aceptable/excusable to operate by how you want to be.

Unfortunately, the flaws and shortcomings of type theory outweigh the above. MBTT doesn't begin to explain a lot of how I am, or it merely addresses it in an overly simplistic manner. This is especially apparent when I try to 'type' others and then have them subsequently shatter my inane characterization of their nature - as it should be shattered - by acting naturally in ways they're 'not supposed to'.

(This may reflect only on my expecting too much from MBTT)

Now when it type others, it's usually only in the sense of which quadra they fall into, or which functions are glaringly apparent - i.e. an extraverted feeler versus an introverted thinker - and then I leave it at that.

 

[s0532]

I had hoped to find something in personality theory, but I'm not sure I did.

Okay, that's unfair. I was introduced to the idea that the gamut of types is a Good Thing(TM), and was further convinced by the notion it's good/okay/aceptable/excusable to operate by how you want to be.

Unfortunately, the flaws and shortcomings of type theory outweigh the above. MBTT doesn't begin to explain a lot of how I am, or it merely addresses it in an overly simplistic manner. This is especially apparent when I try to 'type' others and then have them subsequently shatter my inane characterization of their nature - as it should be shattered - by acting naturally in ways they're 'not supposed to'.

(This may reflect only on my expecting too much from MBTT)

Now when it type others, it's usually only in the sense of which quadra they fall into, or which functions are glaringly apparent - i.e. an extraverted feeler versus an introverted thinker - and then I leave it at that.

This is an interesting post. Is it fair to say MBTI would be more interesting/ appealing to you if type parameters held more consistently- say, if the specifics of type profiles held truer to personal experience? I'm wondering if Ns are bound to be more vested in MBTI insofar as it seems inherently concerned with abstract and generalized patterns.

 

[sundowning]

This is an interesting post. Is it fair to say MBTI would be more interesting/ appealing to you if type parameters held more consistently- say, if the specifics of type profiles held truer to personal experience? I'm wondering if Ns are bound to be more vested in MBTI insofar as it seems inherently concerned with abstract and generalized patterns.

In a sense, yes, because then type theory could be a useful tool beyond being fun to think about, both for others and my own operation.

That said, I would still be dissatisfied with respect to the fact that people would be so easily explained.

 

[Alesia]

I think I felt more accepting of myself. It made sense why I didn't really fit.

Finding out about my type helped me to finally make sense of my life and where and how I could fit in. I never think about "I am INFP and thus I should be or do this".

I have found that over the years I have become less emotionally sensitive, and have developed an actual enjoyment of Sensing type things. I actually enjoy "chit-chat" now, whereas, ten years ago, I loathed it.

That's because I realized the value of "chit-chat" and that most people engaged in it. So, I worked at it. And now that I'm good at it, and have these "chit-chat" concepts running around in my head, as to how to develop a good "chit-chat" session, I love it.

 

[Varelse]

I guess I realized that, yes, I didn't tend to do so well in certain areas, and that I shouldn't expect myself to be perfect in such areas. But it also forced to work on such areas....

 

[JivinJeffJones]

.

 

[Noel]

What kinds of effects have learning about MBTI and identifying with a type had on you?

I've been thinking lately that I believe I behave more INTP now than I did when I was younger. Could be due to many reasons, lots of transitions in the past few years, but I would say the simplest explanation is probably type awareness.

Seems like a good idea to take stock, every now and then, of how type consciousness might impact one's behavior.

Long explanation

cliffs:
*found out who I am
*yearning to grow mentally

Short explanation:
I think it's important to at least recognize my self, my shadow and my inferior functions in order to become a more well-rounded yet mature INFP.

 

[girlnamedbless]

I definitely see where you're coming from. I'm an ESFJ, and when I first took this test in school, I was surprised to be an E. But in the next few months, I became more outgoing. However, last week I discovered I was only a 6/10 extrovert, which is pretty borderline. Now I've kind toned it down a little. Interesting if you ask me.

 

[Rhu]

MBTI didn't really do much for me.

My first exposure to groups of people was kindergarden. I was the poor, bright kid going to school in the midst of all the kids from the upper middle class neighborhoods. I had a heritage that sounded exotic to the German-Irish descended majority.

As soon as I could read, I liked it. As soon as I could write, I drew attention to myself.

I didn't need no stinking test to tell me that I was different. The other kids would make sure to remind me of it. I felt no shame driving me to conform--the means of conformity were either simply beyond my reach much of the time, or I thought I'd be worse off for it.

When I encountered MBTI in seventh grade, I thought it was a neat shorthand description, wrote up a self analysis for class, and forgot about it for years.

 

[RDF]

What kinds of effects have learning about MBTI and identifying with a type had on you?

I've been thinking lately that I believe I behave more INTP now than I did when I was younger. Could be due to many reasons, lots of transitions in the past few years, but I would say the simplest explanation is probably type awareness.

Seems like a good idea to take stock, every now and then, of how type consciousness might impact one's behavior.

I didn't learn about MBTI until about 9 or 10 years ago. Until then, I dealt with the world by overcompensating. When I was growing up in the 1960s I didn't get much support for my natural INFP way of doing things (I was accused of being a crybaby, momma's boy, coward, etc.), and I kept on hearing the message that I needed to toughen up and get with the program. So I learned to settle arguments with my fists instead of running from conflict or talking my way out of it, spent seven years in the Marines and traveled abroad and gained leadership skills, dated around a lot and bounced in and out of relationships, picked up social skills in general, excelled in the workplace, etc.

All that overcompensation left me feeling a bit grizzled, battered and bruised by the age of 40, but overall I felt good about my life. I had a sense I could undertake any project and learn any skills if I really put my mind to it. Also, I had my natural INFP gifts. Even if I wasn't necessarily using them in traditional INFP fields, those skills are pretty powerful in their own right and gave me a considerable edge. After a while, I took it for granted that new endeavors and projects might not come easy for me at first, but if I really wanted to apply myself then ultimately I would excel at anything I did.

But then I learned about MBTI at the age of 41 or 42, and it was a shock and a big disappointment. The INFP profile seemed to embody everything that I had been running away from all my life. Still, I investigated further, and eventually the process of learning about INFPs brought me some balance and rounded me out. All that overcompensation had brought with it some negative effects (a lot of misplaced anger, a lot of uncertainty about where I was supposed to fight versus yielding and accepting, etc.). Studying up on the INFP profile and participating in INFP message boards on the Internet helped me to draw a more rounded picture of myself, find some natural personal boundaries and points of balance that feel right for me, etc.

However, I also still retain that sense that I'm not limited by my INFP profile; in fact MBTI has made it even easier to pick up other skills at will. MBTI is like a smorgasbord of new skills and new viewpoints that I can learn. If a new project is proving difficult for me, I try to figure out which personality type would excel at that project and then study how they would view the project. I watch acquaintances of other personality types and see how they do things, and then I mimic them and try to find that same energy source or focus that makes them good at that project. And of course MBTI has made me better at managing and communicating with other personality types, which is a tremendous bonus.

So for me, MBTI was a way to reintegrate some parts of myself that I had rejected, but it also reinforces my approach of working outside my comfort zone and integrating new skills that aren't traditional for my type.

FL

 

[RDF]

My theory: INTPs (and similar types) are at odds with the general character of most society. Maybe only the T is generally accepted. Hell, look at job listings: they want people-persons that are detail-oriented and organized. Screw that!

INFPs probably have it worse.

Well, sorta. Probably male infps have it worse, then again, perhaps being accepted by society is vastly overrated.

On the subject of INFP adjustment to the world, and specifically of gender-based differences among INFPs:

In my previous post, just above this one, I mentioned that as an INFP male I dealt with the world's demands on me by adapting to the point of overcompensating. Interestingly, I haven't found many other INFP males who share my approach to life and/or who took the overcompensation route, especially on INFP message boards. But that may be a generational thing. I'm pretty old-school, whereas Internet message boards tend to attract a much younger crowd.

To engage in a gross overgeneralization, it seems to me like a lot of male INFPs take the "sensitive dude" route. That route is more of an option today for the younger generation than for me in the 1960s, I suppose. But it seems to me that those "sensitive dude" male INFPs aren't being challenged enough. They simply give up and quit trying to fit into the mainstream, and as a result they carry around a lot of resentment because they feel that they are a square peg trying to fit into a world that rewards round pegs; and then their fate is sealed when they learn about MBTI and get validated in the view that the rat race mainstream is somehow inimical to their nature.

I get into a funny dynamic with other INFP males. They aspire to be philosophers, spritual prophets, hermits, social activists, etc., and they accuse me of selling out when I describe how I've adapted to the rat race. But from my point of view, they're the ones who sold out. They don't even try to get outside their comfort zone; I don't give them points for merely excelling at what comes natural and easy to them; and I don't see that they're particularly happy or well-adjusted for having taken that route. They continue to chafe at always being outside the mainstream, and sometimes the insularity of their viewpoints has disastrous consequences.

But again, I'm overgeneralizing greatly. In real life, there's a lot of gray area. I've seen a lot of depressed male INFPs who rant and rail at the cruel world that won't appreciate them at their worth; but I've also seen well-adjusted male INFPs who made the "sensitive dude" route work for them; they establish a solid base from that self-view and expand out into the world at their leisure.

Overall, though, I tend to resonate better with female INFPs. (Again: overgeneralization alert!) The "feminine" INFP profile is a good match for traditional female roles in the world, so female INFPs tend to fit well within the mainstream and find their place in the world without a lot of conflict and rejection. But at the same time they sometimes fit into the world so neatly that they end up feeling imprisoned by everyone's expectations, like a bird in a gilded cage. So when you dig beneath their surface, you find that these content, quiet, peaceful little angels are harboring secret dreams of depravity, destruction, and death. They're at peace with the outside world and generally appreciate the rewards and comforts of the rat race, but there's also an iconoclastic streak just waiting to bust out and overturn the apple cart when everyone least expects it.

That's actually not so far from my own viewpoint: Go with the mainstream flow and excel at what you do, but also give the world the finger and go your own way after business hours.

To me, the INFP profile is not necessarily or automatically about being sensitive, or being politically correct, or being spiritual, or engaging in social activism. It's more about exploration, originality, testing the limits (at both the spiritual and profane extremes), or just engaging in some good old silly fun. The typical young male INFPs seem to lose track of that second definition when they choose to remain outside the mainstream and go with the "sensitive dude" role--they get tracked into holding themselves up to a high standard if only to justify and substantiate the "nice guy" role they've chosen. The female INFPs, on the other hand, haven't had to make a choice of what role they'll play. They have fallen neatly and naturally into an easy role that's well within the mainstream, but after a while they start wondering if they're missing out on life and start chafing to bust out and explore life in all its complexity.

Disclaimer: Again, these are gross overgeneralizations and personal impressions. Also, there are generational factors that affect things. For example, the descriptions of INFP females are based mostly on my wife and other middle-age INFP females. Younger INFP females may or may not recognize that portrayal in themselves.

But the issue was raised of INFP adjustment to the world, and also of gender-based differences. I thought I would give my own impressions at the risk of irritating every INFP who isn't a perfect fit for my descriptions (which is pretty much all INFPs ).

FL

 

[Shimpei]

What kinds of effects have learning about MBTI and identifying with a type had on you?

I've become more judgemental about people belonging to other types.