[Type 9] Type 9 is liberating

[MacGuffin]

Then wouldn't this have become your natural inclination? Thus meaning that you became that and now do not wish to be this way any longer and are finding a different path.

I'm saying that perhaps what you say you are now isn't who you were, but who you wish to be, and now that you realize this, you say that you were always this. Am I on to something?

I worded these too poetically, I apologize.

Oh, okay. What I mean is I'm no longer such a slave to Type 9 behavior. As in, I don't have do it when it's unhealthy. For example, a Type 6 loves security, often to the point where they unnecessarily avoid risk, thus losing out on opportunities. Realizing this, a Type 6 can go ahead and take some more calculated risks. For me, this means I don't have to constantly be afraid of conflict with others. Sometimes it's good.

Type 9s won't disagree with you. They are 9s godammit!

Yes, they should stop falling into that trap!

From here:
Implying that you stopped 4 yrs ago.

I said I stopped treating people with kid gloves four years ago. How that implies I started behaving like a Type 5 or completely disregarded other people's feelings is beyond me.

Take my example to yours.

You've seen yourself as type 5 from the get-go for a long while now.

When I started the enneagram, I thought 4 sounded like me, but 5 also sounded somewhat like me. Other enneagram types weren't off to (particularly 6.) Back then, I would constantly switch my enneagram type back and forth between 4 and 5.

Okay, and the next step to your argument is...?

This, in my mind, does not equal carte blanche to say or do whatever we want. We still have to act like responsible human beings. We still try to do no harm. But we don't go over everything we say with a fine-toothed comb, with our only goal being to avoid conflict at all costs. We accept that conflict can be normal and even healthy in certain contexts.

YES

The way I read you, Mac, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, is that you have more of a comedian's sensibility as far as what is offensive or non-offensive. You're not trying to aggressively push buttons (unless it's an actual conflict), but rather to explore boundaries and question what's offensive and why we find it so. When you're pushing further, I usually feel like there's humor and curiosity rather than outright aggression behind it. I've personally always believed there's no such thing as offensive or non-offensive, but rather funny or not funny. I kind of feel like you might be the same way.

That's pretty good, I'll have to remember that analysis. There have been times when something has been found offensive in a way I never anticipated or desired. Now, with foreknowledge I might've avoided offending, but often what I said/wrote isn't offensive per se. It's just a quirk in the other person.

 

[Rail Tracer]

Okay, and the next step to your argument is...

The thing is I can't since I don't know you too well. But knowing yourself as a 5 for a while now means something to say the least.

 

[Salomé]

Now, with foreknowledge I might've avoided offending, but often what I said/wrote isn't offensive per se. It's just a quirk in the other person.

Nothing is offensive per se. Things can only be subjectively offensive.

HAMLET: Why, then, 'tis none to you; for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so: to me it is a prison.

But I'll stop now because this is obviously a HUGE blind spot for you. And becoming very boring for me.

I've never, EVER understood what the enneagram has meant by "instincts." Not like sx, sp, so but as one of the functions of the types (which are thinking, feeling, and instincts). Like how 9's are equally strong in their thinking and feeling, but have suppressed instincts to maintain the peace. I have no idea what they mean by that; and I've never seen any explanation.

"Instinct" is like gut reaction. It’s immediate, sensory, reflexive behaviour. It’s about how you interact with your environment, viscerally, not intellectually (thinking) or emotionally (feeling). It corresponds loosley with Freud’s concept of Id.
The type in the centre of each triad (nines, sixes, threes) has most difficulty with the function which defines the triad. Nines repress their instincts (id) in order to maintain a harmonious environment, in the process losing conscious control of them. But often we become ruled by the things we repress – just because they are out of our conscious control, doesn’t mean they don’t play a major role in our lives (much like the inferior function). The price nines pay for an illusory peace of mind is disconnection from themselves and ultimately, disconnection from everything, because without a firm idea of self, one cannot have any kind of relationship with others, let alone a harmonious one.

The inclusion of each type in its Center is not arbitrary. Each type results from a particular relationship with a cluster of issues that characterize that Center. Most simply, these issues revolve around a powerful, largely unconscious emotional response to the loss of contact with the core of the self. In the Instinctive Center, the emotion is Anger or Rage. In the Feeling Center, the emotion is Shame, and in the Thinking Center, it is Anxiety or Dread. Of course, all nine types contain all three of these emotions, but in each Center, the personalities of the types are particularly affected by that Center's emotional theme.
..
Nines deny their anger and instinctual energies as if to say, "What anger? I am not a person who gets angry." Nines are the type most out of touch with their anger and instinctual energies, often feeling threatened by them. Of course, Nines get angry like everyone else, but try to stay out of their darker feelings by focusing on idealizations of their relationships and their world.

Dunno if that helps.

 

[MacGuffin]

The thing is I can't since I don't know you too well. But knowing yourself as a 5 for a while now means something to say the least.

If Type 9 didn't exist I'd be Type 5. I am going on faith there aren't more types out there that would fit me better. A lot of the Enneagram seems arbitrary to me.

 

[Salomé]

You're the poster child for Type 9.
You should have it tattooed on your baldy head or something.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Oh, okay. What I mean is I'm no longer such a slave to Type 9 behavior. As in, I don't have do it when it's unhealthy. For example, a Type 6 loves security, often to the point where they unnecessarily avoid risk, thus losing out on opportunities. Realizing this, a Type 6 can go ahead and take some more calculated risks. For me, this means I don't have to constantly be afraid of conflict with others. Sometimes it's good.

Hmmmm, makes sense. I suppose the angle I was trying to take it was that you didn't realize you were a nine, but you wanted to become that and in doing so you reconciled with the faults with being that type so that you could become that type. This however is really a tangent to the actual point that others are making against you though... I think believing that you control others by what you say is the biggest issue and why it appears to be egocentric, however, it's always a balance because you can't completely lose all tact or you appear egocentric because it appears you don't have to care about others feelings. It's a finer line than some of the other subjects. I didn't help much, did I?

 

[MacGuffin]

Hmmmm, makes sense. I suppose the angle I was trying to take it was that you didn't realize you were a nine, but you wanted to become that and in doing so you reconciled with the faults with being that type so that you could become that type. This however is really a tangent to the actual point that others are making against you though... I think believing that you control others by what you say is the biggest issue and why it appears to be egocentric, however, it's always a balance because you can't completely lose all tact or you appear egocentric because it appears you don't have to care about others feelings. It's a finer line than some of the other subjects. I didn't help much, did I?

Oh no, I didn't want to be a 9 at all. Ever read the 9 descriptions? So lame.

EDIT: and yes it is a balancing act.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

It is rather boring, I have to say though if you can make the passive agression build up long enough, the explosion it can make is rather exciting!

 

[MacGuffin]

It is rather boring, I have to say though if you can make the passive agression build up long enough, the explosion it can make is rather exciting!

LOL, exciting for who?

 

[Rail Tracer]

Oh no, I didn't want to be a 9 at all. Ever read the 9 descriptions? So lame.

EDIT: and yes it is a balancing act.

I know, wouldn't you want to be a 5 instead?

 

[MacGuffin]

I know, wouldn't you want to be a 5 instead?

Who wouldn't? They're the intellectuals!

 

[PeaceBaby]

I could make a huge post here, but I have had too much gin and lemonade.

MacGuffy, be a 9. I feel that energy from you, so who cares what Morgan says. (Although I enjoy Morgan's provocative statements in an effort to challenge the topic at hand.)

It's a distinct warmth with distance, I want to connect with that warmth yet it is elusive. You remain uncommitted and indistinct. You play at the edges yet refrain from really jumping in and engaging a topic. This is what INTP 9's feel like to me.

wolfy and blackcat, as ISFPs, feel warmer yet they are even more elusive in other ways. They don't play a cat and mouse kind of game, pretending to engage then backing away. They remain observers, preferring to keep an aloof distance. INTP's (to me) feel more of a push and pull effect, wanting to engage but then pulling back.

OK, that's enough for now. Be a 9. Heck we're not avoidant, we just strive to achieve harmony, align with peace, want to facilitate communication. Yet we engage when it's important to engage. In an INTP, this comes across in a more constrained dynamic than an INFP, because I have Fi for fuel, but it's still there.

 

[Rail Tracer]

Who wouldn't? They're the intellectuals!

I know right? They know everything!

 

[Salomé]

I could make a huge post here, but I have had too much gin and lemonade.

MacGuffy, be a 9. I feel that energy from you, so who cares what Morgan says.

You didn't read very carefully, or else your gin is too strong: I knew MacGuffin was a 9 before he did.

He's also not an INTP, but I'll let that one go.

 

[PeaceBaby]

^ what type do you think he is?

 

[MacGuffin]

He's also not an INTP, but I'll let that one go.

I may accept ENTP.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I would tell you what I feel in that regard, but I don't want to influence that answer ...

 

[MacGuffin]

I would tell you what I feel in that regard, but I don't want to influence that answer ...

It doesn't bother me. /9

 

[PeaceBaby]

^ I want to hear Morgan's answer ... I think she's been playing devil's advocate and I am genuinely interested to know what she would say.

 

[Ginkgo]

MacGuffin is not a 9!

You see, type 5's holy idea is omniscience. This is distinguished from type 8's holy idea as Truth because omniscience is knowing the truth about everything where as the simple truth may be particular. When the 5 is unhealthy, or even relatively healthy, it retreats into its own world because it thinks that it lacks the wealth of information it would otherwise have, and how it is intertwined with the rest of the known universe. Once the 5 becomes healthy, it is able to call the shots and be more assertive about the particular truth in the moment as an 8 would.

On the other hand, the unhealthy 9 is a total wuss bag who just goes along to get along. Any notion of truth lacks significance when the 9 becomes passively merged with others, inheriting the opinions of others for the mere sake of harmony. Agreeability becomes the keepsake of the 9, as most 9s who are self-preservationists feel as though the identity of others is their own. So disagreeing with someone would, in effect, be disagreeing with oneself. Once the 9 becomes healthy and more intact, it learns to distinguish itself by reflecting off of others, thereby becoming more assertive about its own ideals.