Autism Research Breakthrough, genetic variation-could it be evolution?

[Betty Blue]

Reading the following article

Autism and genetics: A breakthrough that sheds light on a medical mystery - Science, News - The Independent

The "what if?" Flags are going up for me again on this topic.

I have copied the section below which caught my eye most.

"The Autism Genome Project, involving more than 1,500 families from across the US, Canada, Britain and the rest of Europe, attempted to identify the genetic side to the disorder through genome-wide scans of the DNA of patients. The researchers concentrated on a type of genetic difference that distinguishes one person from another, called copy number variations (CNVs), where the same stretch of DNA containing up to 20 genes is replicated several times.

They found that autistic children were likely to carry about 20 per cent more CNVs than ordinary children. They also found that many of the CNVs found in autistic children were not carried by their parents, but were newly arisen, probably prior to conception during the formation of the egg or sperm – like the chromosome changes leading to Down's syndrome."

(I am aware of the negative connotations made by linking probable similarities with Down's syndrome)

Oh yes i do realise that i will be getting lots of people who are of the opinion that it's a terrible debilitating life long condition and a genetic mutation. I am also sure i will be accused of glorifying ASD.
But i think not.
There is also the huge increase of ASD... a 400% increase in the last 10-15 years.
When thinking this over i pondered darwins theory of evolution on natural selection.......

Your thoughts please?

 

[cafe]

I've mentioned the possibility on the forum in the past (sans scientific research). I think I got a mixed reaction.

I honestly don't know what to think. When I see my own sons who function well overall, are intelligent, but a little Spocky when it comes to social stuff, I believe they could be an evolutionary advancement. When I see less high-functioning kids who have to wear helmets because of their constant head-banging or kids that aren't ever going to be verbal, I have my doubts.

We still have so much to learn about autism, it's really hard to say.

FWIW, I don't know about my sons' genes, but I do know that several characteristics associated with autism run pretty strong in my husband's mother's side of the family. They didn't just come out of nowhere like some autistcs seem to.

 

[Amethyst]

Hmm...If you're implying that this is sort of an 'evolution', then I'd have to disagree.


The Autistic Savant | Wisconsin Medical Society

It pretty much states that many autistic people aren't as extremely intelligent as many would think. Yes there is quite a number of people with autism out there who have a greater intelligence than others that wouldn't really be considered at a savant status, but even then, it's not likely to be found.

 

[Betty Blue]

Hmm...If you're implying that this is sort of an 'evolution', then I'd have to disagree.


The Autistic Savant | Wisconsin Medical Society

It pretty much states that many autistic people aren't as extremely intelligent as many would think. Yes there is quite a number of people with autism out there who have a greater intelligence than others that wouldn't really be considered at a savant status, but even then, it's not likely to be found.

Well a couple of things crop up for me here. One is how we measure intelligence, many intelligence tests are biased as they are in a style which is suited to the majority but fail people who are "different". The other is that evolution does not happen overnight so the presumption that all autistic people would have to be savants is rather misleading.
In general your response reminds me of the presumption that people with sight believe blind people just see black...rather like when people with sight close their eyes.

 

[Betty Blue]

I just found a link which i think is interesting regarding different testing styles producing different results in people with autism...although i hasten to add it appears (and feels) very tip of the iceberg....
http://mara.blog.zm.nu/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Dawson_AutisticIntelligence_PS_2007.pdf

 

[Ivy]

I've always thought this was probably the case, instead of an environmental cause.

However, I don't believe this is an "evolution" thing because I don't think the numbers are actually rising. The recent surveys that claimed the rates of autism are now 1 in 100 (1 in 70 for boys, 1 in 130 for girls) also found that 1 in 100 ADULTS also have a spectrum disorder (many newly diagnosed). If the rates were truly ballooning like that, the increase would only appear in children.

It seems to be a statistical anomaly caused by widening of the diagnostic criteria (appropriately IMO- thus identifying more people with autism that were previously missed), better access to healthcare providers who can make the diagnosis, and a softening stigma. It seems to me that the prevailing popular opinion of ASD used to be entirely negative, and synonymous with retardation. More people are aware now that autism is a communication disorder that is not always or even most of the time coupled with intellectual disability. People with autism tend to be specialists rather than generalists, so their intellectual profiles are distinguished by "peaks and valleys."

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

This is interesting! I recall that many years ago there was a comment in a coffee table book I was reading at a friend's place that said that Silicon Valley had an unusually high proportion of children born with ASD. As the years have passed and Aspergers and other ASDs appear to have increased in incidence I begin to wonder whether the rise in personal use of computers and gadgets and the resultant increase in EMR may not be having an effect on the genome???

 

[Ivy]

Some reading on the autism "epidemic":

Autism Blog - Social influences on the rise in autism prevalence

Autism Blog - Autism Clusters Found: areas with high incidence of autistic children

Autism Blog - CDC report 1 in 110 kids are identified autistic

Science-Based Medicine

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

^ Thanks for these Ivy

 

[Betty Blue]

Actually i think the increase in asd does mainly affect children, i don't agree that as many adults are being diagnosed or that the ratio is the same in adults. I have a link below....
Study: Childhood Rise in Autism Cases Real
but it would be fair to say that even without this link (and there are many to support this theory) i believe it is becomming more frequent in each year that passes, the reason i believe this is because i feel it and see it everywhere.
It used to be the case when my child was first diagnosed (5 years ago)that when we went to the playground (or anywhere out) it seemed that i was the only one around, with few exceptions, with a child with autism. Even in the last several years that amount has dramatically increased, i now see many children with asd, i talk to people and everyone i speak to now knows a child with autism.
I don't believe this is due simply to diagnostic criteria or indeed better awareness, it seems to me there is a boom, becomming ever more frequent.

 

[Betty Blue]

Some reading on the autism "epidemic":


Autism Blog - Autism Clusters Found: areas with high incidence of autistic children

I found this link very interesting, i has suspected areas of high frequency but not had this information befor....
Thank you

 

[FDG]

Why would it be an "advancement" in evolution? What kind of advantages does it bring, compared to another person with similar "intelligence" levels, but who's not autistic?

 

[INTP]

I came to conclusion that autistic cant separate big picture from details, they see only the details, but they kinda think its the whole picture. Like if they got a play car and some play road for it, they wont see that the car is part of the road, but they see the car and the road as separate big pictures that they start looking in details. If you take them to forest, they will see the trees, but not the forest, because they see trees as separate big pictures that they want to look in detail.

This theory is based on my little knowledge about autistic people, so dont think that this is some ultimate truth.

Would be nice to hear what people who know autistic people say about this.

 

[Ivy]

I found this link very interesting, i has suspected areas of high frequency but not had this information befor....
Thank you

Did you read this part?

Instead of indications of an “autism epidemic”, these clusters point to the fact that minority and poor children are much less likely to receive autism diagnoses.

 

[Ivy]

Actually i think the increase in asd does mainly affect children, i don't agree that as many adults are being diagnosed or that the ratio is the same in adults. I have a link below....
Study: Childhood Rise in Autism Cases Real
but it would be fair to say that even without this link (and there are many to support this theory) i believe it is becomming more frequent in each year that passes, the reason i believe this is because i feel it and see it everywhere.
It used to be the case when my child was first diagnosed (5 years ago)that when we went to the playground (or anywhere out) it seemed that i was the only one around, with few exceptions, with a child with autism. Even in the last several years that amount has dramatically increased, i now see many children with asd, i talk to people and everyone i speak to now knows a child with autism.
I don't believe this is due simply to diagnostic criteria or indeed better awareness, it seems to me there is a boom, becomming ever more frequent.

That you "feel it and see it everywhere" is precisely a function of the awareness being higher, which is part of what leads to more people seeking diagnosis or even knowing what to look for! 20-30+ years ago, there were just as many children with autism, but the ones with lower intelligence were being labelled retarded and the ones with higher intelligence were slipping through the cracks altogether. They were not identified in any way. My husband probably would have gotten an Asperger's diagnosis under the new criteria. He wasn't counted under LD or special ed because he was in gifted classes, and would have been even with a diagnosis. Dual identifications are very, very common for kids with ASD.

 

[Ivy]

GemPOP, I think because you have a child with autism you are struggling to see it as something that makes him special, like you did with dyslexia. This is a sweet tendency and it means you are a good mom. To that end, I think you would enjoy looking into the Neurodiversity movement. Ari Ne'eman, the young man with autism who was appointed to President Obama's Council on Disability, is one of the voices in the movement. It's a source for a hopeful and positive outlook, quite a contrast from the gloom & doom we hear so much of from other sources. BUT, a big part of the movement is an acknowledgement that the likely cause of the "epidemic" is increased awareness, widened diagnostic criteria, and the stigma softening that the Neurodiversity folks are working towards. Autism is a part of the neurological landscape of humanity, and probably always has been. We're just seeing it more clearly now.

neurodiversity.com | prevalence of autism Poke around on that site and see if you like what you see.

Another neurodiversity voice I like is Deb of formerly Asperger Square 8, now called just Square 8 since they're taking the name Asperger out of the diagnosis.

 

[Andy]

Why would it be an "advancement" in evolution? What kind of advantages does it bring, compared to another person with similar "intelligence" levels, but who's not autistic?

Ever heard the saying "too much of a good thing"? That might apply here. THhre are certain traits that are adventagous when mild, but turn nasty in the extreme. I mentioned it in a different thread not long ago, but I'll say it again here -sickle cell anemea.

It's a genetic trait that causes the red blood cells to curve. If you have one copy, the cells curve just enough to grant resistant to maleria. If you have two, they curve so much that they have trouble carrying oxygen, and the person becomes weak and enervated.

Autism may represent a similar trait. Perhaps it's mild form gives an advantage when looking out for details, or over ruling ones instincts. In the extreme, it turns into autism.

 

[Reflection]

BUT, a big part of the movement is an acknowledgement that the likely cause of the "epidemic" is increased awareness, widened diagnostic criteria, and the stigma softening that the Neurodiversity folks are working towards. Autism is a part of the neurological landscape of humanity, and probably always has been. We're just seeing it more clearly now.

I agree with this. I think that mostly it's just the fact that nowadays we have more resources and more understanding not only for autism but similar illnesses as well, that it's getting much easier to diagnose kids earlier than before. This then appears as a surge in the actual numbers, where I believe the numbers have always been the same, just unrecognized.

I believe it was also you, Ivy, who said that autism appears in lower percentages among the poor and the lower classes, which I believe can be attributed to the fact that they don't have the access to the same resources as the higher classes do, thus many go undiagnosed.

That said, I do not believe there is much advantage in having autism, and I certainly hope the OP doesn't wish it in any way. Regardless of the occasional bright sides, autism is still a debilitating illness, and I don't see it as evolutionary at all. That is not to say that it doesn't, as mentioned before, indeed have its bright sides, however they are very rare and it is difficult for those who suffer from autism to participate and function in society.

 

[Ivy]

I don't think of it as an advantage, but I also think some (SOME) of the disadvantages are a side effect of living in a culture that isn't entirely accepting of differences. Although that is getting better, IMO.

Yes, there are other disadvantages that aren't culture-dependent. I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish my son were a bit less opaque to me. But dwelling on the negatives seems counterproductive. It's true that my kid has some difficulty communicating, and it frustrates him, which hurts my heart. But with help he's getting better at it all the time, and his unique perspective is a daily joy to me. And he's an extremely happy person 90% of the time- can't really argue with that. I just hope he stays that way and his natural curiosity and glee isn't tempered by negative public opinions of autistic people.

 

[FDG]

Ever heard the saying "too much of a good thing"? That might apply here. THhre are certain traits that are adventagous when mild, but turn nasty in the extreme. I mentioned it in a different thread not long ago, but I'll say it again here -sickle cell anemea.

It's a genetic trait that causes the red blood cells to curve. If you have one copy, the cells curve just enough to grant resistant to maleria. If you have two, they curve so much that they have trouble carrying oxygen, and the person becomes weak and enervated.

Autism may represent a similar trait. Perhaps it's mild form gives an advantage when looking out for details, or over ruling ones instincts. In the extreme, it turns into autism.

Okay, I can see how having a percentage of the population which is really detail-oriented can benefit humanity. However, I can't see how a whole population of people being very detail-oriented is more effective than a mix of people who are and people who aren't, that's why I think it's difficult to configure such characteristics as an universal advancement in mankind.

Anyway, my opinion (probably wrong, I can see the holes in this reasoning myself) is that any "mild" form of these psychological "dysfunctions" - ADD, autism, etc. would be better left undiagnosed, because it adds further pressure and it might erroneously lead a person to associate all his-her problems to his-her "condition".