Prayer

[miss fortune]

I'll admit to feeling really bitter towards prayer in general from when my aunt died... everyone was praying for her... even me in my agnostic non-praying way (which could probably better be described as bargaining )... my great grandma and her identical twin even skipped the Lawrence Welk show to go to prayer (bit sacrifice for an elderly midwestern sisterhood!)... they even held a special church service to pray for her and nothing happened... I skipped the prayer service to visit her instead, since everyone else was at the church

nothing happened... fuck that :steam:

though in a way I can see how prayer can be beneficial to those who do it... a manner of positive thinking and getting one's thoughts in order... like a meditation in a way

I just can't really do it

 

[Oberon]

nothing happened... fuck that :steam:

God is not a vending machine, where you stick in your prayer, push the button, and get a candy bar. God is a parent, and sometimes the answer is 'no.'

And you don't get to know why.

 

[miss fortune]

I was refering to how so many people just wasted their time doing something that had no effect when they could have been doing something more effective... prayer was a distraction that didn't work out well in the end

 

[gromit]

God is not a vending machine, where you stick in your prayer, push the button, and get a candy bar. God is a parent, and sometimes the answer is 'no.'

And you don't get to know why.

Somewhat depressing way to think of things...

 

[Totenkindly]

God is not a vending machine, where you stick in your prayer, push the button, and get a candy bar. God is a parent, and sometimes the answer is 'no.' And you don't get to know why.

At least your version of God.
(although I happen to have a similar version)

 

[gromit]

the typical belief about a god/deity would suggest that he/she/it would at least grant you/the loved one the "strength" to handle the life events that you are experiencing.

Yeah I think this makes sense. Drawing upon some spiritual source for strength. I'm not certain what the source is or if it's my own sense of spirituality or something else, but I can accept this.

I do have trouble with praying for miracles/blessings though. I know people believe in the law of attraction and that sort of thing, but it's tough to think that it works in some situations but not in others without any real discernible reasons why, like Oberon says.

I guess there isn't really much way to know either way.



Jennifer, I am still processing your comment.

 

[Oberon]

Somewhat depressing way to think of things...

Well, sometimes the answer is 'yes,' as well.

 

[Poki]

God is not a vending machine, where you stick in your prayer, push the button, and get a candy bar. God is a parent, and sometimes the answer is 'no.'

And you don't get to know why.

He is more like a slot machine. You stick in your prayer, pull the handle and hope for the best. You stand there, "triple sevens, triple sevens" do your special machine rub, and end up with 3 cherries Rinse and repeat. Then walk off someone else puts a prayer in, pulls the handle, etc. and gets their prayer. So you go back, try copying thier methods (maybe they knocked on the machine instead of rubbing it).

Eventually you start praying for 3 cherries...

 

[Oberon]

He is more like a slot machine.

Not to the thoughtful.

 

[Poki]

Not to the thoughtful.

The thoughtful are the ones driving their own prayers If you are thoughtful for the sole purpose of having prayers acknowledged, then you might as well redirect that thoughtfullness in the right direction and improve the odds

 

[gromit]

I pray every morning.

Makes me feel good and prepared. I do this every morning. Not every alternative day or when I just feel like it.

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of praying? Like do you repeat the same prayer every day? Or is it more like focusing your energies? Just honestly curious...

 

[Oberon]

The thoughtful are the ones driving their own prayers

Praying to yourself? Sounds like idolatry to me... and hubris.

 

[gromit]

Praying to yourself? Sounds like idolatry to me... and hubris.

Well in a way I could see prayer as a way of getting in touch with the higher/more noble/loving parts of ourselves... I don't think that's so whacky...

 

[Oberon]

Well in a way I could see prayer as a way of getting in touch with the higher/more noble/loving parts of ourselves... I don't think that's so whacky...

Not wacky if that's what it is... but in that case I would call it meditiation.

 

[Totenkindly]

He is more like a slot machine. You stick in your prayer, pull the handle and hope for the best. You stand there, "triple sevens, triple sevens" do your special machine rub, and end up with 3 cherries Rinse and repeat. Then walk off someone else puts a prayer in, pulls the handle, etc. and gets their prayer. So you go back, try copying thier methods (maybe they knocked on the machine instead of rubbing it). Eventually you start praying for 3 cherries...

Most people give up on that after they fail to win the jackpot enough times.

At that stage, they either find a better way to deal with and/or attitude towards prayer or they quit altogether.

 

[gromit]

How would you distinguish between the two, Oberon?

 

[Resonance]

Prayer ~= The Secret ~= Wiccan 'Magick' ~= Satanic/Nordic/whatever Rituals ~= Chaos Magic's glyphs+gnosis ~= Buddhist mantras

Ritual is a useful tool for focusing the subconscious. Ascribing it powers that go beyond psychologically feasible is unscientific, but may help to make choices which will increase the likelihood of success.

 

[Oberon]

How would you distinguish between the two, Oberon?

Meditation is an inward focusing of the mind, and can be done for any of a number of reasons. Prayer is a focusing of the mind for the purpose of communicating or communing with a higher power, i.e. deity. That's how I see it, at least.

Buddhist prayer is a matter of some debate, though it's arguable that the unconscious larger universe could take the place of deity for the purpose of the definition. Absent a sentient deity, I would personally consider it meditation.

 

[Poki]

Praying to yourself? Sounds like idolatry to me... and hubris.

Its an inner pride or self-confidence. Its believing in yourself.

 

[Poki]

Meditation is an inward focusing of the mind, and can be done for any of a number of reasons. Prayer is a focusing of the mind for the purpose of communicating or communing with a higher power, i.e. deity. That's how I see it, at least.

Buddhist prayer is a matter of some debate, though it's arguable that the unconscious larger universe could take the place of deity for the purpose of the definition. Absent a sentient deity, I would personally consider it meditation.

I agree with your vision. When someone believes in prayer very strongly it has the affect of meditating for strength, meditating to let things go. The biggest benefit of prayer is to give you something to believe in, something to have faith in. Prayer is done for a number of reasons as well and line up pretty good with meditation the difference is one is focused inward while another is focused outward. One thing that can change with prayer is if you hold god inside of you or if god is seperated from you as that can change the focus from inward to outward. The mind is an extremely complicated thing in regard to perception and how we internally see things and the effect it has.