The answer's in your question.
The point is that the goal of those pushing the issue is that it will be within every church, they arent content to live after their own fashion and let others live after their own, its a campaign to achieve universal acceptance, appreciation, support, endorsement, approval.
The answer is not in my question. That's certainly not what I want. And it's not what the gay people who I'm close with want either. Actually, believe it or not, the gays I'm close with (even the ones who consider themselves Christians) keep a pretty healthy distance from the church. I want to live and let live. Honestly I don't even care if I can be married, I'd just like to be with the person I love.
But hey, this isn't about me. So, as long as it's not shoehorned into your church, you don't care?
Often its as a substitute for the approval they couldnt receive at home or in their own communities and that's so fucking neurotic, its impossible to satisfy and ultimately will send people insane because no matter how much legislation, change etc. there is they'll always be left with the suspiscion that some place some where the thought of their sexual behaviour makes someone want barf because that same someone thinks its abnormal, unnatural, perverse.
Those are some pretty venomous things to say, if you ask me.
That said, I think you've got a point. No amount of legislation will satisfy an attitude like that. But I don't think that's why people are pushing for gay rights. I think if a direct dialogue is opened up (i.e. one that isn't filtered through mass media) a good amount of understanding can be had.
Did I face adversity in my own community? Yes. Does that make me desire a legal requirement that every religious organization marry homosexual couples? No. That's going too far. Anyway why would I want to be married in a church that doesn't want to marry my partner and I?
I'm not going to pretend that the group of gay people I keep company with are your typical gay people, because they're not. I don't know what the gay community at large is saying because I don't really seek out the gay community. All I see is what's on 24-hour news channels, and I take that with a grain of salt because I know it misrepresents gays as much as it misrepresents Christians, Muslims, and whoever it decides to shine its spotlight on. But the point is, those with whom I have directly interacted don't see the issue as "homophobia must be eradicated." They see the issue being, "a threat to liberty anywhere is a threat to liberty everywhere."
What I'm more interested in is a direct dialogue. Person to person. Round table. As long as it's not filtered through mass media.
What, Lark, would make you okay with gay marriage? There's got to be some common ground here.
Hell. If nothing else, gays and Christians certainly share a sense of being under fire.
This is part of the reason why I dont think this issue is anything like the half a dozen other minority-majority relationships or discrimination issues which its compared to, its nothing like the racial discrimination and black civil rights movements because they had a point at which they were prepared to say "OK, its done", at least some of their pundits where.
I think there's more to it than that.
I think the biggest reason it's different is because you can't tell who we are just by looking at us... most of the time lol. In a certain sense, anyone can be gay, wether they're gay or not. You, Lark, could go into a gay bar, pretend to be a gay man, and get away with it. Just as I could go into a non-specialized bar and have it be assumed that I'm straight unless I say otherwise.
The other part is that the gay community isn't all that easy to quantify. What makes someone gay? Good question. It's certainly not just having engaged in homosexual behavior, as many men and women have done that once and never again. Then you get the gender-bender, self-identified straight men who like to get it on with guys every once in a while. Then there're bisexuals, then transgender, then questioning. The importance here is that the "gay community" is a living example of how the boundaries that we see in subjects such as gender and sexuality really only exist in our minds. And to see that is sort of threatening. I certainly felt threatened when I started to see the boundary of "Boys like girls | Girls like boys" dissolve in my own mind.
Also, the reason we haven't said "okay, enough" is because we haven't really gotten what we've been asking for. And I'm not talking about curing every case of homophobia. That focuses on symptoms, not causes and it's unrealistic. I'm not looking for pie in the sky.
I want to be able to live my life how I see fit. I want to live with my partner, perhaps raise a child, build a home together without fear that when we grow old we'll be ripped away from everything we've built or from each other. You know?
For many conscientious objectors to homosexuality, including religious, its a water mark, how far are people willing to go to try and create an artifical consensus and enforce a political correctness or closed mindedness (yeah, closed minded, why is it not to suppose that everyone is latently homosexual when there is such a great number of people who are not and never develop that way?).
I don't think the assertion is that everyone is a latent homosexual. I think the assertion is that sexuality is a dimmer switch, not an on-off switch. That said, it doesn't really matter to me. Some people have homosexual urges that they never act on and never admit to. Who cares?
And I don't really care if people are politically correct. If someone has a problem with me he can remove himself from my presence. If he's got something to say, you can bet I'll have something to say back.
So yeah, the question stands:
What, Lark, would it take for you to vote yes on a hypothetical ballot that asks, "Should same-sex marriage be allowed?"