[INFJ] Are INFJs naturally fascinated with ENTPs?

[onemoretime]

This is painfully accurate. It almost hurts to let anyone know that.

It doesn't almost hurt... it does hurt. More than anything else in the world.

Until you get to the other side.

 

[Quay]

But what surprised me was the INFJs behavior. She is very mature, intelligent, beautiful, caring, clever and is about as INFJ as you can be. I adore her, thus was very disappointed to see this.

I know in my mind, hoe I would twist logic to justify my own desire for this man, even though it never resulted in anything. How would an INFJ justify this?

I think a lot of INFJs have an understanding that while there is that "connection", that's probably all there will ever be. But that connection is very powerful, I can assure you, so just a little dose can keep her somehow fulfilled.

She has probably been brutally honest with herself about what their relationship will be like and is just enjoying it for what it is worth, because really, she may not be expecting anything at all from him, especially if she's thought carefully about who she is dealing with.

He probably appreciates all those things in her you appreciate about her also, but in the ENTP way. Even if it's just for that "quality time", which may be all she needs right now, and all he can give, and they just have this mutual understanding.

Sounds very grown-up like and taboo perhaps, but both have these dark sides and I think it can be tougher to acknowledge the INFJ dark side than the ENTP dark side (since everyone seems to always talk about it)...

 

[Synarch]

I know in my mind, hoe I would twist logic to justify my own desire for this man, even though it never resulted in anything. How would an INFJ justify this?

Masochism. Shame-based masochism. Plus desire.

 

[Quay]

Masochism. Shame-based masochism. Plus desire.

lol?

Shame based on?

 

[Salomé]

If we seem narcissistic, we're compensating for the fact that oftentimes, we truly don't know who loves us in this world.

IOW: If we seem narcissistic, it's because we are.

 

[Synarch]

lol?

Shame based on?

Submerged needs. Submerged self. Avoidant tendencies.

 

[Synarch]

IOW: If we seem narcissistic, it's because we are.

+1

 

[Quay]

Submerged needs. Submerged self. Avoidant tendencies.

In relation to the situation Happy Puppy described, what could you say is being submerged by the INFJ? What could she be avoiding? A certain state of being?

 

[cafe]

this is totally me hopping in on your thread (I am currently making metaphorical intellectual love to INTJs) but I had an INFJ-ENTP question.

I dont want to stereotype, but INFJs seem to tend to be very conservative regarding sexuality and social mores.

So I was very surprised to find out that my ENTP who bugged me all of last year was sleeping with one of my favorite INFJs-even though he seems to have a long term INFJ girlfriend of 8 years at home. Now he will have casual sex with anyone it seems, to the point of the rest of our company calling my department his harem.

But what surprised me was the INFJs behavior. She is very mature, intelligent, beautiful, caring, clever and is about as INFJ as you can be. I adore her, thus was very disappointed to see this.

I know in my mind, hoe I would twist logic to justify my own desire for this man, even though it never resulted in anything. How would an INFJ justify this?

If she isn't looking for a relationship right now, he would be a pleasant, convenient, and safe lay. He is already in a relationship and he has shown that he is capable of having casual sex without becoming attached to his partners so he's unlikely to be clingy and make her feel bad when she's ready to move on.

There are several "other women" so she's really not doing a marriage breaker kind of thing. Also, if he's getting repeat customers, he's probably pretty good in bed.

If you just want sex, it sounds pretty ideal. INFJs have hormones, too, and we can be pretty dang pragmatic when a situation calls for it.

 

[Synarch]

The need to be healthy. She's essentially engaging in self-harm.

 

[sculpting]

If she isn't looking for a relationship right now, he would be a pleasant, convenient, and safe lay. He is already in a relationship and he has shown that he is capable of having casual sex without becoming attached to his partners so he's unlikely to be clingy and make her feel bad when she's ready to move on.

There are several "other women" so she's really not doing a marriage breaker kind of thing. Also, if he's getting repeat customers, he's probably pretty good in bed.

If you just want sex, it sounds pretty ideal. INFJs have hormones, too, and we can be pretty dang pragmatic when a situation calls for it.

Thanks much for your thoughts here. I guess I just thought Fe would sort of quell this?? I mean I dunno, for Fi, if you stop and listen to it, you cant not feel the SO's pain. Doesnt mean Fi users always stop and listen.

I dont mean to judge her. Well you know, that's not so true, I do judge her and he, due to harm to the SO, but it isnt my place to impose those judgments on others externally. (Might as well be honest to the ol' Fi)

perhaps she is lonely as well. She really wants kids and a family. I dunno...

 

[cafe]

Thanks much for your thoughts here. I guess I just thought Fe would sort of quell this?? I mean I dunno, for Fi, if you stop and listen to it, you cant not feel the SO's pain. Doesnt mean Fi users always stop and listen.

I dont mean to judge her. Well you know, that's not so true, I do judge her and he, due to harm to the SO, but it isnt my place to impose those judgments on others externally. (Might as well be honest to the ol' Fi)

perhaps she is lonely as well. She really wants kids and a family. I dunno...

If he has a long-distance girlfriend of eight years, something is very, very weird with that relationship. It's possible that it's even an open (explicitly or implicitly) relationship. I mean, how are you going to be with a philanderer for eight years and not figure it out? I would conclude that the SO has chosen to be in a non-monogamous relationship with the ENTP, either by open consent or is just plain old resolved to it. If that's the choice the SO has made, the INFJ really isn't violating anything.

I don't condone the behavior -- I'm monogamous in the strictest sense of the word myself -- but I can see how someone could get there from here, if that makes sense.

 

[Quay]

Well you know, that's not so true, I do judge her and he, due to harm to the SO, but it isnt my place to impose those judgments on others externally. (Might as well be honest to the ol' Fi)

This sucks.

Does anyone know if the SO knows about her husband's doings? I'm thinking if she knows, your coworker may be even more receptive to the guy.

 

[Quay]

If he has a long-distance girlfriend of eight years, something is very, very weird with that relationship. It's possible that it's even an open (explicitly or implicitly) relationship. I mean, how are you going to be with a philanderer for eight years and not figure it out? I would conclude that the SO has chosen to be in a non-monogamous relationship with the ENTP, either by open consent or is just plain old resolved to it. If that's the choice the SO has made, the INFJ really isn't violating anything.

I don't condone the behavior -- I'm monogamous in the strictest sense of the word myself -- but I can see how someone could get there from here, if that makes sense.

cross post! heh heh

*edited to add* and I was going to use philanderer/ing in my post somewhere but changed my mind....freak-eez!

 

[cafe]

cross post! heh heh

*edited to add* and I was going to use philanderer/ing in my post somewhere but changed my mind....freak-eez!

lol

 

[sculpting]

I dont think the SO "knows". Except he is on the road 90% of the time and has tried to hook up with women everywhere-for the last two companies he has worked for.

So it's one of those situations where perhaps she kinda knows deep down something isnt quite right but just sort of lives the facade?

He did tell an ESTP that we work with that the SO would be "terribly hurt" if she found out.

I work with lots of really awesome ENTPs who arent like this though, so dont let me tarnish the whole bunch. There are always a few bad apples.

 

[Fidelia]

I've been in that situation before. She deserves to know, but in my case, I wasn't close enough to tell her (nodding acquaintances). This is a health issue though as well as an emotional one. I expect she knows something is quite wrong, but doesn't want to have it confirmed so she's not asking.

 

[Vasilisa]

To the OP, I don't know why the attraction happens, but I've felt it.

I did have the tremendous privilege of knowing an ENTP heart and soul, and as I have posted before, it was sublime and intoxicating. Not replicated in my experience. But also not perfect, though, so I hope its understood. I just want to highlight this post

If we seem narcissistic, we're compensating for the fact that oftentimes, we truly don't know who loves us in this world.

It rings so true, just from what I observed. It seems like they need to test that even with their INFJs on occasion. But, ideally, in the end they recognize that we love them wholly.

So, I will admit I am a fangirl for all healthy ENTP-INFJ pairings!
Of course I wish partnership success to all other types, too, but I love hearing about ENTP-INFJ happiness.

 

[sculpting]

I've been in that situation before. She deserves to know, but in my case, I wasn't close enough to tell her (nodding acquaintances). This is a health issue though as well as an emotional one. I expect she knows something is quite wrong, but doesn't want to have it confirmed so she's not asking.

Ah, well this is where tertiary Te makes all the difference. He'd better never bring his SO to the company christmas party...Never doubt the bitchiness of an ENFP. Drama.

 

[Qre:us]

If we seem narcissistic, we're compensating for the fact that oftentimes, we truly don't know who loves us in this world.

Why does it mean that? Yes, when an ENTP is messing around, their tongue and cheek humor may sail right over the majority - but I'm not referring to humor. If asked a sincere question, I don't see them ever keeping quiet ENTP's love talking. And as they're rather narcassistic, all their talking is usually about themselves. I don't see your type keeping hidden.

Sometimes displays of ego are intended to create a false internal reality. ENTP's over-intellectualize things to protect themselves from simple truths.

I'm a female ENTP, and I can't relate to that at all. IRL, I am actually the listener more than the talker, in one on one situations, with friends or other loved ones. I'm acutely aware of cues from the others, that they're getting bored, or humouring me, or they have no interest in the subject matter, so, I'll abort going deeper or sharing more. While, it seems, that the other doesn't afford me the same courtesy to be aware that I really don't care that much, because I'll continue to listen and question and respond, to their minute details they share. Because I vibe that they need to get it off their chest.

I actually don't like talking much about myself, unless asked a direct question, asking me to expand. Some of my closest friends don't even know about certain hobbies, passions of mine - because it just never came up, and I don't see the point of sharing, just because.

Only one other person do I take on the active "talker" mode with, my ENFJ best friend. Even with my INTJ ex, I was more the listener than him. While in the outside world, he'd be much more quiet.

As for the narcissistic tendencies, again, I can't relate. I can seemingly come off that way, but, it's all sarcasm and joke, and it's actually really masked self-deprecation, and, I'm "testing" to see if the other falls for such illusions, the smoke and mirrors pitch, or if they smile at it, yet, choose to dig deeper.

When I do something ridiculous and it somehow worked out, I'd often say to my INTJ ex, "I'm fucking awesome!".......I'm actually taking the piss out of myself at that moment, because I also realize how ridiculous it was, and the giddiness of it working out, regardless of the hair-brainedness of it all.

So, when another time, while we were driving on the highway, the INTJ points out to me, this crazy-looking dude, driving his beat-up old, rusted, hatchback car, with garbage bags piled high at the back of his car, with :546: old headphones on, and a walkman, headbanging away, seemingly oblivious to the world, how he appears....and the INTJ says, "Look, he's awesome, just like you!"

That's what counts, because the INTJ got it, and I can only smile, and say, "Exactly!"

If you take me seriously at that point, and think I actually believe such bloated statements, I'm going to lose a bit of my closeness with you (respect for?), because you are not trying to see me, just the show I'm putting on for you. I.e., you really just want to be entertained by me.

There's a truth I'm hinting at, with my seemingly grandoise "narcissistic" statements, and it's not the obvious interpretation.

So, maybe, that's ^ what OMT's quote was getting at?

We all walk around, and cater our presentation of self, situationally, and, it's understandable, but, funny to me, at the same time. I often see the masses as clowns who don't know that we're clowns. Thus, I push those limits, in regards to myself, often. To see who picks up on it, or who gets sold the lines.