[INFJ] Are INFJs naturally fascinated with ENTPs?

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Are INFJs fascinated with ENTPs?

Yes.

Everyone is fascinated with ENTPs.

 

[Synarch]

Doesn't everyone do that? Wait, I guess not, but...how do people formulate their personal guidelines without observing general principles in society and the effects of keeping them or breaking them?

I don't know. I feel like some people formulate rules that are wholly separate from society's rules. By an extraverted approach, I just meant that I am more mindful of context than trying to achieve some internal consistency of feeling or attitude. I am more confident dealing with external context rather than internal states and my own responses.

 

[Fidelia]

Is that Fe related do you think?

 

[Synarch]

Is that Fe related do you think?

I guess. I am not good with the functional definitions.

 

[the state i am in]

Rather than formulate rules for myself I try to extrapolate "laws" of human conduct at work in the world.

yeah, absolutely. also with tertiary Fe guiding social conduct and a wide-reaching awareness of overall happiness?
(also, every time i hear the word "happiness" i now associate it with ted talks)

i'm really interested your statement. i see perhaps the w6 also tempering various elements often associated with entp and really providing a strong desire to be a strong and stable force within the community, a pillar, a voice of reason and leadership, etc. it creates a type of selflessness, desire to be of value to others, foundational welcoming quality others immediately appreciate. and your statement may show a mental process the entp uses to do this.

i don't know where critique, comedy, and a general T disdain or mirth fall into play with this sincere desire for rules for right conduct.

 

[Synarch]

yeah, absolutely. also with tertiary Fe guiding social conduct and a wide-reaching awareness of overall happiness?
(also, every time i hear the word "happiness" i now associate it with ted talks)

I believe fully in circumstances creating happiness. How do you decide which circumstances result in optimal happiness? What if two people differ on how the circumstances should be? There has to be a way to arbitrate based on objective criteria or there is no ideal reality. I take certain assumptions like it is best to be compassionate and honest and calculate from there.

i'm really interested your statement. i see perhaps the w6 also tempering various elements often associated with entp and really providing a strong desire to be a strong and stable force within the community, a pillar, a voice of reason and leadership, etc. it creates a type of selflessness, desire to be of value to others, foundational welcoming quality others immediately appreciate. and your statement may show a mental process the entp uses to do this.

The older I get the more I want to help people thrive. To do that means sometimes representing the voice of "reason". Sometimes this means counterintuitive arguments that fly in the face of the conventional attitudes, such as that premarital sex is no big deal. There is so much floating around that is plainly bad for people. I like to try to identify what is good for people and advocate for it, even if unpopular.

i don't know where critique, comedy, and a general T disdain or mirth fall into play with this sincere desire for rules for right conduct.

Critique, comedy, disdain, and mirth all stem from a peculiar sort of idealism, I think. I want life to mean something, even if we have to cobble together meaning ourselves from nothingness.

 

[yenom]

I have never met a single INFJ in my life and I do not know what they look like.
(except maybe my psychologist and therapist, but she doesn't seem like the type I am attracted to and fall in love with, and I am not 100% certain what her type is)


to the op: Maybe its the forces of good and evil naturally attract each other?

 

[Quay]

to the op: what's up with the use of big words?

Can't help it.

suggesting that infjs can lack an awareness of social cues and signals that define boundaries and outline intentions? and without spending serious effort and energy maintaining a healthy and accurate portrayal of the situation through these forms of communication, they can lead people on?

as far as a more far-reaching critique of values, this moves towards infjs needing to be more self-sufficient and less dangerously anais-nin like (assuming we did in fact type her as an infj?) or deriving too much of their identity in their ability to explore others without serious investment?

I've really tried hard to pay attention to social cues and boundaries in the past. But....When I'm being too polite, I don't talk to or look at anyone. When I'm being impolite, I appear as a husband/boyfriend/girlfriend stealer. Even when attempting a medium between the two, I still come off as hitting on people when I'm doing no such thing. It can be frustrating.

I really don't know what the medium is. I've decided to be natural about it and not push either extreme. And part of this is accepting the rejection that may come with it. For the most part, I've not had this problem because I rarely approach people and when I do, I try to be respectful. The whole process is unconventional so it takes some effort to ease myself into it. I can appear to not be paying attention to someone and then all of a sudden I'm right next to the person, which is unnerving. A newly acquired friend of mine did it to me, and I think the person is INFJ and he is pretty much in denial from my perspective.

I do have boundaries though and just recently learned to establish them. One of my many counselors told me I am too much like Switzerland, and that stuck with me, and really helped me define my stances with certain people. At this point, I simply create magnetism between myself and people I want to know, and those I don't want to know, create a force field between them and me. These boundaries are usually respected. When they aren’t, I usually alert one of my male friends who are around, because it usually that serious.

I take genuine interest in people because I'm interested. There's no other reason. It's hard to explain this to people. It seems as if society is set up so one has to have an alterior motive when expressing interest in someone. Seems like we have to actually want something tangible from the person.

I don't miss anything except the entertaining stories 10 years after the fact. Like the 400ish pound, ponytailed, twice a day coffee shop visitor, 20 years older than me guy that worked at the porn shop down the road from my friend's coffee shop where I liked to hang out and jam with others. Sometimes I'd clear tables or eat there just because I was around quite a bit. Grim and I rarely exchanged words other than maybe a nod or something, but when I left town, he arranged for me to receive several thoughtfully made pieces of artwork made to represent me and a 10 page letter on fancy stationary apologizing for having hurt me so badly by putting up such high walls, which I could see through anyway. He got all that from me saying, "Are you done with your coffee cup?"

Or a schitzophrenic man 10 years older than me who believed that my parents were keeping us apart and who wrote letters to my parents telling them in graphic detail that I was woman enough for him to be aware that I craved his body and had displayed my aching longing to him on numerous occasions (followed by letters with religious insults such as "you whited sepulchur" etc directed at my mother after they told him not to continue contacting me).

Yep...don't miss those days...

Wow. If this is not some INFJ shit, I don't know what is.

Here's the thing, also. Do women tend to initiate contact as much as men? Why do you think this is?

I think they do. But not as overtly. And I think it's more of passively placing oneself in the right place at the right time.

And again, I think society plays into this. I've heard so many times, "Men don't like women who chase, etc, blah effin blah because the women appear easy." I've heard otherwise from men. So I'm not sure who these men are who are saying this, and indeed if they are, I wonder what their confidence levels are. I want nothing to do with them honestly.

I mean really..are women supposed to be standing around waiting on some freakin tall dark and handsome guy in armor riding on a white metrosexual horse like the one donkey turned into in Shrek (ok I'm weird and I have kids)?

That dude passed me by several times in my early adulthood. I know I'm not his type and he is certainly not mine.

 

[Fidelia]

I do have boundaries though and just recently learned to establish them. One of my many counselors told me I am too much like Switzerland, and that stuck with me, and really helped me define my stances with certain people. At this point, I simply create magnetism between people who I want to know, and those I don't want to know, create a force field between them and me. These boundaries are usually respected. When they aren’t, I usually alert one of my male friends who are around, because it usually that serious.

I take genuine interest in people because I'm interested. There's no other reason. It's hard to explain this to people. It seems as if society is set up so one has to have an alterior motive when expressing interest in someone. Seems like we have to actually want something tangible from the person.

I can identify with this. The force field thing also rang a bell. I have had a number of people tell me that while I seem warm, they have the distinct feeling that I would not welcome them touching me. I was surprised at first, as I actually am quite comfortable with physical affection. However in those cases, I think I probably was sending out clear signals of where their boundaries would be in accordance to how I felt about our acquaintanceship.

 

[Quay]

I have had a number of people tell me that while I seem warm, they have the distinct feeling that I would not welcome them touching me. I was surprised at first, as I actually am quite comfortable with physical affection. However in those cases, I think I probably was sending out clear signals of where their boundaries would be in accordance to how I felt about our acquaintanceship.

How have you reacted with those who purposely violate the boundary?

I had a very blatant violation about 6 months ago.

I totally went into shadow mode and shut down someone's house party.

Even after I'd told this person he'd overstepped the boundary, he still proceeded as if I hadn't articulated my wishes.

I was sickenly fascinated with my poor behavior afterwards, somewhat guilty for being such an ass in someone else's home, but my point was made and my boundary still intact.

Why does this seem like a war with us sometimes?

Not to derail the thread cuz it's all about the Mad Scientists, but I'm still curious...

 

[Fidelia]

Usually I become immediately blunt and unsmiling towards the person as well as making sure others are alerted. Inappropriate behaviour thrives on secrecy. The really good ones at it though send out an inappropriate message/action that neither of you can mistake, but that unless you were there could be read in more than one way. My mother was very good at imparting trust, yet appropriate wariness towards other people so that we learned to send out fairly clear signals about anything physical. I have never had anyone try anything (other than one night at Hallowe'en when a random drunk stranger decided to reach out and give me a pat on the butt).

I think it's more when it comes to emotional boundaries that things get messier. I don't generally put as much stock in emotional interactions as sometimes the recipient does and therefore they misread my intentions. I'm good at being kind but firm when someone starts trying to emotionally mooch on a regular basis, as well as shutting down clearly inapproprate verbal stuff. It's more that needy, I need to pour out my life story and fears kind of thing where I am not spending excessive amounts of time or overexerting myself emotionally that I sometimes am unclear about.

 

[lane777]

Which means you never know when we're kidding or not. Hiding in plain sight. Much better strategy than trying to stay hidden.

Why does it mean that? Yes, when an ENTP is messing around, their tongue and cheek humor may sail right over the majority - but I'm not referring to humor. If asked a sincere question, I don't see them ever keeping quiet ENTP's love talking. And as they're rather narcassistic, all their talking is usually about themselves. I don't see your type keeping hidden.

 

[onemoretime]

Why does it mean that? Yes, when an ENTP is messing around, their tongue and cheek humor may sail right over the majority - but I'm not referring to humor. If asked a sincere question, I don't see them ever keeping quiet ENTP's love talking. And as they're rather narcassistic, all their talking is usually about themselves. I don't see your type keeping hidden.

If we seem narcissistic, we're compensating for the fact that oftentimes, we truly don't know who loves us in this world.

 

[Synarch]

Why does it mean that? Yes, when an ENTP is messing around, their tongue and cheek humor may sail right over the majority - but I'm not referring to humor. If asked a sincere question, I don't see them ever keeping quiet ENTP's love talking. And as they're rather narcassistic, all their talking is usually about themselves. I don't see your type keeping hidden.

I agree with that. I do think the self-centeredness is generally compensatory. I think ENTP's are not likely to be aggressively narcissistic. But, it is a tendency I see. I think this is why ENTP's and similar types might do well to work on themselves. Not that I have all the answers on that score. It is amazingly difficult to change yourself, which is where a lot of problems stem from.

 

[lane777]

If we seem narcissistic, we're compensating for the fact that oftentimes, we truly don't know who loves us in this world.

Yes, insecurity often accompanies an ego, as contradictory as that sounds. But I've seen it before too many times, especially in ENTP's.

I agree with that. I do think the self-centeredness is generally compensatory. I think ENTP's are not likely to be aggressively narcissistic. But, it is a tendency I see.

That was very admirable of you.

I think this is why ENTP's and similar types might do well to work on themselves. Not that I have all the answers on that score. It is amazingly difficult to change yourself, which is where a lot of problems stem from.

It's strange to me how often members here insist that one cannot attach character flaws to the temperaments - as though it's unrelated. But if we can recognize our innate strengths (which MBTI favors), why can't we do the same for our weaknesses? I know someone produced a thread for this discussion, but people were so defensive even at the mere suggestion of such a concept that I didn't wanna get slammed for any real feedback. But that's another topic entirely. End of derail. (Sorry, your post just seems to hint that you adhere to such taboo things, makes me excited )

 

[Synarch]

Yes, insecurity often accompanies an ego, as contradictory as that sounds. But I've seen it before too many times, especially in ENTP's.

Sometimes displays of ego are intended to create a false internal reality. ENTP's over-intellectualize things to protect themselves from simple truths.

It's strange to me how often members here insist that one cannot attach character flaws to the temperaments - as though it's unrelated. But if we can recognize our innate strengths (which MBTI favors), why can't we do the same for our weaknesses? I know someone produced a thread for this discussion, but people were so defensive even at the mere suggestion of such a concept that I didn't wanna get slammed for any real feedback. But that's another topic entirely. End of derail. (Sorry, your post just seems to hint that you adhere to such taboo things, makes me excited )

Good point.

Well. I would get defensive, but I have given up. I'm getting tired of my problems.

 

[Quay]

Cloud. I missed your post. I keep missing the "op" reference. Getting use to the forum dynamics still.
I wouldn't say good and evil attracting. I think the two types are very much the same but with a polarity. I read in the NT section how ENTP to INFJ is like simply pulling a sock inside out. I also have an image of two magnets of the same pole that stay hovering around each other but never touching.
To me, the distance is comfortable. Maybe because there are people nearby me who don't get it, and then the ENTP across the room knows exactly what is going on with me.
Initially, it was disconcerting to be read so easily by them.
I do think the ENTP who is undeveloped will attempt to use this as manipulation. I've had it tried on me, but I kindly deflected it and then distanced myself. I'm not sure if the person wanted me to like or despise him, but I decided I wasn't going to invest energy into either.
I think he may have been trying to know me better, but thought I wouldn't like him as a person anyhow, so he decided to test me with bad bahavior. Doorslam and that was it.
But the older ENTPs who fidelia speaks of are the ones who are my steadfast friends. They are at a point where they are just comfortable with themselves for the most part. I see the insecure side, but then they see mine too, so it works out.

 

[simulatedworld]

If we seem narcissistic, we're compensating for the fact that oftentimes, we truly don't know who loves us in this world.

This is painfully accurate. It almost hurts to let anyone know that.

Sometimes displays of ego are intended to create a false internal reality. ENTP's over-intellectualize things to protect themselves from simple truths.

So is this! Good lord.

 

[Timeless]

I'm not sure, I guess so...

My best friend's sister is an INFJ and we get along really well. She's surprisingly interested in everything I say even if it's stupid or silly. One day I was teaching her how to use the computer and internet and I said:

"Put it this way, when you clicked the link: it downloaded that application, it went into your download folder—the same way when UPS delivered a box to you, it goes inside your house. You just have to open it up afterwards, that's all. You clicked that link a thousand times and now you have a thousand boxes."

She died laughing.

"Your analogies are amazing. It helps me really understand!"

 

[sculpting]

this is totally me hopping in on your thread (I am currently making metaphorical intellectual love to INTJs) but I had an INFJ-ENTP question.

I dont want to stereotype, but INFJs seem to tend to be very conservative regarding sexuality and social mores.

So I was very surprised to find out that my ENTP who bugged me all of last year was sleeping with one of my favorite INFJs-even though he seems to have a long term INFJ girlfriend of 8 years at home. Now he will have casual sex with anyone it seems, to the point of the rest of our company calling my department his harem.

But what surprised me was the INFJs behavior. She is very mature, intelligent, beautiful, caring, clever and is about as INFJ as you can be. I adore her, thus was very disappointed to see this.

I know in my mind, hoe I would twist logic to justify my own desire for this man, even though it never resulted in anything. How would an INFJ justify this?