[MBTI General] ISTJs- Wannabe INTJs?

[IZthe411]

Well, this comes primarily from the anti-S/pro-N atmosphere created by Ns who don't understand typology very well. This is really, really pervasive (even worse than here) on INTP central and INTJ forum.

If I may quote an INTJ forum thread asking, "What is the difference between ISTJ and INTJ?"



The pretentious aura from this style of INTJ can be pretty suffocating. It sometimes leads S types who are new to typology to label themselves Ns because it's assumed that if you're an S, you're stupid or inferior, and nobody wants to label himself that way.

In reality, most ISTJs don't want to be INTJs because they value Si more highly than Ni. Si is probably the most poorly understood of all the functions in general and so a lot of inaccurate garbage is written about it.

The ISTJs who do wish they were INTJ generally hold Ni to some magical standard, like some kind of superpower, when in reality it's not nearly all it's cracked up to be. INTJs have a number of significant weaknesses; they're just really good at hiding them in most cases so they seem less vulnerable than they really are.

I doubt that any ISTJs are consciously lying about their type when they claim to be INTJ; they probably just don't understand the system well enough yet to accurately determine their own types.

There are a lot of real strengths in the ISTJ approach that are totally lost on INTJs, though, so don't worry about the nonsensical anti-S bias that you'll encounter on typology forums. It's to be expected on N-dominated forums, but it's a lot of bullshit.

I feel you here. I have a few good friends who are INTJs, and while they are some arrogant bastids, they don't act like cats on here. At the same time, they aren't students of MBTI; in fact I was the one who introduced them to it, and they tested INTJ.

I also noted that a lot of people on here are high school/college aged. There must be some message being fed that because they are intuitives they are somehow special because they are less frequently found. Or it could be that their Ni is leading them to believe this. I didn't have MBTI when I was in high school; I took it in college and at the beginning of my career, but it was more for helping to understand how you interact with others. If anything, I wanted more to be an 'E' than an 'N'. This N phenomena only seems to appear online.

Whatever the case it's not about what you have, but what you do with what you have. Ni might be the cool thing to have on this board but it's nothing if you can't function in the real world, which is dominated by Sensors. I just hope this doens't go any further than these boards.

 

[IZthe411]

If you want to see the problems with Ni at its worst, I have two words for you: Dale Gribble.

LOL

The wiry conspiracy theorist.

 

[Poki]

In some ways, INTJs are like turbo-ISTJs. They have many similarities, but everything with the INTJ is bigger-picture.

And it's not really like this at all with INTPs and ISTPs. INTPs aren't ISTPs in overdrive. Maybe because we both share Ti dom in most cases. And INTJs/ISTJs have Ni/Si.

We are half way overdrive since we are tert Ni and you are tert Si. Ni IS ZOMG FRICKIN AWESOMENESS TIMES 10 MILLION

edit: sorry, I am bored

 

[IZthe411]

In some ways, INTJs are like turbo-ISTJs. They have many similarities, but everything with the INTJ is bigger-picture.

And it's not really like this at all with INTPs and ISTPs. INTPs aren't ISTPs in overdrive. Maybe because we both share Ti dom in most cases. And INTJs/ISTJs have Ni/Si.

I agree with you there. Both of my boys who are INTJs are like me, but not exactly like me. They definitely are more sure in their rightness than I am. For one of them it almost cost our friendship.

 

[cascadeco]

I never understood this...some of the threads I come across on this board make it seem that ISTJs want to be INTJs so bad, that some of them will label themselves as such and pretend.

Not sure why this belief exists?

Is the perception that ISTJs are somehow the inferior type?

Any ideas?

Well, it's the N's who tend to acquire superiority complexes, so that'll be more apparent on a forum that's inundated with INxx's. That happens though because many/most INxx's had some issues growing up in terms of fitting in, feeling understood, and relating to their peers. Many INxx's felt like total oddballs/aliens growing up, so a forum consisting mostly of INxx's would tend to embrace/advertise the more N qualities and how awesome it is to be an N. ha.

I can tell you about my ISTJ mom, though; she knows a little bit about mbti, because I've mentioned it offhand off and on, and she tests as a solid ISTJ. But she finds the concept of mbti kind of silly and doesn't understand why I'm interested in it, and I can almost guarantee that she'd find real-life INTJ's equally incomprehensible/strange and wouldn't want to 'be' them at all. She's quite happy with who she is, from what I gather.

 

[Poki]

Well, it's the N's who tend to acquire superiority complexes, so that'll be more apparent on a forum that's inundated with INxx's. That happens though because many/most INxx's had some issues growing up in terms of fitting in, feeling understood, or even relating to their peers.

I can tell you about my ISTJ mom, though; she knows a little bit about mbti, because I've mentioned it offhand off and on, and she tests as a solid ISTJ. She also finds the concept of mbti kind of silly, and I can almost guarantee that she'd find real-life INTJ's equally incomprehensible/strange and wouldn't want to 'be' them at all.

On a serious note isnt MBTI about theory and Si about detail, dont they contradict each other where theory kinda kills the detail. INTPs are into it because they like to logically play with the details. You will screw up an ISTJ majorly if you start to play with his details

 

[IZthe411]

Well, it's the N's who tend to acquire superiority complexes, so that'll be more apparent on a forum that's inundated with INxx's. That happens though because many/most INxx's had some issues growing up in terms of fitting in, feeling understood, and relating to their peers. Many INxx's felt like total oddballs/aliens growing up, so a forum consisting mostly of INxx's would tend to embrace/advertise the more N qualities and how awesome it is to be an N. ha.

I can tell you about my ISTJ mom, though; she knows a little bit about mbti, because I've mentioned it offhand off and on, and she tests as a solid ISTJ. She also finds the concept of mbti kind of silly, and I can almost guarantee that she'd find real-life INTJ's equally incomprehensible/strange and wouldn't want to 'be' them at all.

Good point about the Ns standing out, and that awkwardness somehow becoming a superiority complex at some point.

I'm sure the older you get, the more comfortable you are in your own skin, and the less likely you'll want to be anyone other than yourself.

 

[Amira]

As far as feeling inferior, not exactly. The two types that are different from me by one letter that I've most often felt a bit envious of are ESTJ, because they seem to get so much done and have more energy because they don't need alone time as much, and INTJ, because they rarely seem to care what other people think about them. (That is how I personally have often percieved them) But, I really am pretty happy being me.

 

[MBTI Enthusiast]

I also noted that a lot of people on here are high school/college aged.

Personally, there is one reason why I would want to be an intuitive. As stated in a book I own (TypeTalk by Otto Kroeger and Janet M. Thuesen), intuitive learners are more favored in college settings than sensing learners. Sensors are favored all throughout elementary, middle, and most of high school, with rote memorization, etc. Then when we get to college, a wrench is thrown at us, since most professors are now intuitive and thus write tests favoring intuitive thinking. Therefore, if most people on here are college-aged, as IZthe411 says, then the sensors here might come to believe that intuitives are now the "better" and "smarter" group because in college, it's usually intuitives who seem to really "get it". It is my competitive nature and desire to become highly successful in life that makes me wonder if such a goal might be easier as an intuitive.

 

[IZthe411]

Personally, there is one reason why I would want to be an intuitive. As stated in a book I own (TypeTalk by Otto Kroeger and Janet M. Thuesen), intuitive learners are more favored in college settings than sensing learners. Sensors are favored all throughout elementary, middle, and most of high school, with rote memorization, etc. Then when we get to college, a wrench is thrown at us, since most professors are now intuitive and thus write tests favoring intuitive thinking. Therefore, if most people on here are college-aged, as IZthe411 says, then the sensors here might come to believe that intuitives are now the "better" and "smarter" group because in college, it's usually intuitives who seem to really "get it". It is my competitive nature and desire to become highly successful in life that makes me wonder if such a goal might be easier as an intuitive.

College could be easy for sensors- if they didn't make all those general studies type courses requiried. Some of them were interesting, but some of them were a plain waste of time and money. If it was just my major classes that I needed to pass, I'd been at the top of my class.

 

[sticker]

Well, it's the N's who tend to acquire superiority complexes, so that'll be more apparent on a forum that's inundated with INxx's. That happens though because many/most INxx's had some issues growing up in terms of fitting in, feeling understood, and relating to their peers. Many INxx's felt like total oddballs/aliens growing up, so a forum consisting mostly of INxx's would tend to embrace/advertise the more N qualities and how awesome it is to be an N. ha.

I can tell you about my ISTJ mom, though; she knows a little bit about mbti, because I've mentioned it offhand off and on, and she tests as a solid ISTJ. But she finds the concept of mbti kind of silly and doesn't understand why I'm interested in it, and I can almost guarantee that she'd find real-life INTJ's equally incomprehensible/strange and wouldn't want to 'be' them at all. She's quite happy with who she is, from what I gather.

But... What about ISTJs who end up being the oddball and not fitting in to society?
I feel like an outcast both online and offline.

 

[Andy]

But... What about ISTJs who end up being the oddball and not fitting in to society?
I feel like an outcast both online and offline.

There are many ways the functions of each type can manifest themselves. A young ISTJ will pick up many of the standards and principals they hold from their parents and immediate family. If these influential figures do not correspond to the social norm, then the ISTJ probably wont either. In fact, if theISTJ simply picks up on the wrong principals from them, the result can be the same.

Of course everyone picks up things from their parents/family, but it is particularlly true of ISTJs as they are both introverts (and so are liable to mix with fewer people) and primary Si users (who can be strong willed and single minded, less liable to bend to external pressure).

Personally, I like outcasts and oddballs. They have an improved chance of altering the world, and that appeals to me. Would you like to help me tear down the fabric of society? Think how much fun it would be!

 

[Sam Spade]

Would you like to help me tear down the fabric of society?

Yes.

 

[Ozz]

Personally, I like outcasts and oddballs. They have an improved chance of altering the world, and that appeals to me. Would you like to help me tear down the fabric of society? Think how much fun it would be!

Sure! Just write a logical paper explaining why the new order is better and I'll be right behind you!

 

[IZthe411]

I'm not an outsider......I'm not a conformist. I'm in my lane.

 

[Uytuun]

In reality, most ISTJs don't want to be INTJs because they value Si more highly than Ni.

True...my ISTJ friend would never want to be an N.

Drunk ISTJs seem to like Ni, though.

 

[sticker]

There are many ways the functions of each type can manifest themselves. A young ISTJ will pick up many of the standards and principals they hold from their parents and immediate family. If these influential figures do not correspond to the social norm, then the ISTJ probably wont either. In fact, if theISTJ simply picks up on the wrong principals from them, the result can be the same.

Of course everyone picks up things from their parents/family, but it is particularlly true of ISTJs as they are both introverts (and so are liable to mix with fewer people) and primary Si users (who can be strong willed and single minded, less liable to bend to external pressure).

Well... The funny thing is, my values did not come from my parents, other than insecurity and fear. I grew up in a family full of stories of how people end up not getting a job anyway even though they are hardworking and such. Made me a definite 6w5 having a need to have security nets under security nets, especially since I don't think I'm competent enough in my areas of interests...

Other than that, I think I'm one of the most rebellious ISTJ around. I quarrel with my SJ parents way more often than my ENFP sister. I'm usually the one who stands out the most in a group (at first because later on, they get used to me and feels like I'm not there at all because of how quiet I am sometimes) because I'm not feminine at all (despite parents trying to get me to wear skirts and dresses) and have interests that hardly anyone else has (rubiks cube etc)
As for where I got my values from... I'm not sure... I just thought of them and found them more 'reasonable' than what my parents think? Many times, I feel like an INTJ (and relating to posts of what is happening to them in social context) simply because of how different I am. And also the lack of interest in social norms and rituals. lol

Personally, I like outcasts and oddballs. They have an improved chance of altering the world, and that appeals to me. Would you like to help me tear down the fabric of society? Think how much fun it would be!

I wouldn't mind, as long as I can continue doing the things I like and have 3 meals a day.

 

[Andy]

Well... The funny thing is, my values did not come from my parents, other than insecurity and fear. I grew up in a family full of stories of how people end up not getting a job anyway even though they are hardworking and such. Made me a definite 6w5 having a need to have security nets under security nets, especially since I don't think I'm competent enough in my areas of interests...

Other than that, I think I'm one of the most rebellious ISTJ around. I quarrel with my SJ parents way more often than my ENFP sister. I'm usually the one who stands out the most in a group (at first because later on, they get used to me and feels like I'm not there at all because of how quiet I am sometimes) because I'm not feminine at all (despite parents trying to get me to wear skirts and dresses) and have interests that hardly anyone else has (rubiks cube etc)
As for where I got my values from... I'm not sure... I just thought of them and found them more 'reasonable' than what my parents think? Many times, I feel like an INTJ (and relating to posts of what is happening to them in social context) simply because of how different I am. And also the lack of interest in social norms and rituals. lol

I wouldn't mind, as long as I can continue doing the things I like and have 3 meals a day.

Yes, I can see how all that fits together. You know, if someone was to ask me to pin down the nature of Si, I'd say it was a preference for ideas and principals that are viewed as reliable. I think ISTJs have a tendancy to build up "information sets" composed of such things that have struck them as sound. While such ideas can come from other people, they don't actually have to.

In an ISTJ both Te and Fi serve Si, by which I mean much of what they do is to help Si decide what principals are successful (Te thought) and reasonable (Fi thought). In your case, this process seems to have produced an information set different to both your parents and peers.

As a side note, I am very pleased by the number of people willing to help me shatter civilisation. As we are still in the planning stages, what would people like to build in its place after we have swept the table clean? Assuming that you want to build something, rather than just loung around in rubble and enjoy the silence, of course.

 

[Saslou]

Awwww, you STJ's are so adorable.

I wouldn't want you lot to be N's, other than the fact that most INTJ's won't talk to me , you lot keep my feet on the ground when i am being a worrywart.

I don't want you to change. Please. I personally think you are smashing people.

Oh and Andy, i'll help out if it is for the greater good. Sounds like fun

 

[sticker]

Yes, I can see how all that fits together. You know, if someone was to ask me to pin down the nature of Si, I'd say it was a preference for ideas and principals that are viewed as reliable. I think ISTJs have a tendancy to build up "information sets" composed of such things that have struck them as sound. While such ideas can come from other people, they don't actually have to.

In an ISTJ both Te and Fi serve Si, by which I mean much of what they do is to help Si decide what principals are successful (Te thought) and reasonable (Fi thought). In your case, this process seems to have produced an information set different to both your parents and peers.

Yup, I guess that's pretty much it. It sucks though, because I end up being oblivious to so many things that are important for me to cope with people, society and getting my way around the outside world.

As a side note, I am very pleased by the number of people willing to help me shatter civilisation. As we are still in the planning stages, what would people like to build in its place after we have swept the table clean? Assuming that you want to build something, rather than just loung around in rubble and enjoy the silence, of course.

Fill the world with kitties.

Ah, another question since this thread is about ISTJ and INTJ, do any ISTJ here know of an ISTJ profile description which they can relate very well to? All my Sensing friends think I'm INTJ, most of my iNtuiting friends think I'm ISTJ after I asked them which profiles sounds more like me. Even though I know I use Si over Ni, I still end up relating more to INTJ profiles too. (Especially this funny one, except for parts dealing with self confidence. The Compleat Idiot's Guide to the INTJ | INTJ Central) It's as if my Si chose to pick up habits and weaknesses that INTJs have, years before I was even aware of personality types.