Last Shot at Trying to Find My Enneagram Type

[Thelema]

I'm trying this for the last time, but I don't think anybody here could really, really understand me. I don't know anybody here, and words are limited. Words are also misleading. I wish I could write something that would make someone understand what I'm trying to say on a deeper level, but I don't think it is possible. I will try my best.

"Disclaimer: How are you doing? Are there any major life events/illnesses/other issues that might be influencing you? Did you write this in one sitting, or have you pondered these issues deeply? Give us a sense of "where you're at" right now."
A: Not very well, but I've been worse. I've been struggling for years with phobias and social anxiety, but I've been gradually getting much better, at least.
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"0. What's making you unsure of your type? What research have you already done to determine type?"
A: I feel like I experience reality in a very complex way. I relate to a lot of types. Most of the neurosis I've experienced in the last years are related to type Six, it seems, but I also relate to issues of other types (Four and Five). I read excerpts from Sandra Maitri's books, and sometimes I feel like I am able to type people I know with a fair degree of certainty - but never myself.
"1. Establish a "baseline mood"--when you're at home with nothing to do, where are you at mentally and emotionally? What do you notice in yourself? (Note, this is not a mood you inhabit "frequently", but your psychological baseline)."
A: I'm inside of my head or introspecting. I feel comfortable when I'm "inside of myself". Being forced to be outside of myself drains me. I like to read, and learn about new concepts. I like to experience "insights" - moments of inner transformation that generally happen through books, philosophy, movies or songs. Music is particularly my passion, and every week I search for new artists and albums. The more somebody pressures me, the more I want to withdraw and be inside of my room. I like to socialize sometimes, and have fun with people, but ultimately, I'm mostly an introvert.
2. Describe yourself--
a. What's it like to be you?
A: At the moment, being like me is shit. I have some qualities, but I don't think they make up for everything I go through. I don't even want to talk about this.
b. What have others said about you?
A: Others frequently point out some qualities I have, but I don't want to list all of them here. It would sound like bragging, which is ridiculous. I will only say that some people I know see me as a fairly intelligent person and rely on my insights to gain a deeper comprehension about some subjects.
c. What do you think of yourself?
A: I'm a mess, really. With a poor capacity of self-analysis. Very quiet and introspective most of the times (I would say 80% of the times), but very reactive and temperamental in moments when people push my buttons, or when I feel like my opinions are correct and others can't see it. I feel like I have to put a mask in most social situations. I'm very anxious.
3. What are the issues you've dealt with in life? List some recurrent themes, and tell us a little about each one.
A: Can I skip this one?
4. You're not good at everything--
a. What personality traits and/or ways of being are impossible for you to adopt?
A: Being very assertive IRL. Being an active/outer-focused person. Being courageous. Being totally indifferent to others' perceptions of me.
b. What are qualities you'd like to have, but can't seem to develop?
A: See above.
5. Why have you left friends and other relationships in the past and/or why have they left you?
A: Some few times, because of fights. I am not the kind of person who lets somebody say whatever they want to say about me and just forget what they did. I can be vengeful. Not something that happens often, though. Sometimes people want to approach me, but I have no interest in them, or even dislike them. I can be judgemental. But of course, on the surface, I avoid conflict, and don't like to directly hurt people.
6. Which types do you identify with most? A: E6, E5, E4
a. How do you relate to these types?
A: E6 - I am a very anxious person. Easily ashamed. Vulnerable, actually. I have a lot of social anxiety and feel uncomfortable around crowds. I anticipate bad stuff that could happen, and overthink a lot.
E5 - I love to learn. I love to understand things. Philosophy is a passion of mine. I am very withdrawn, and I generally don't feel bad about being withdrawn or isolated, most of the times. I compartmentalize my life.
E4 - I think I do feel somewhat "out of place" in this world. I am very shy/self-conscious, have always been. I am certainly envious of people and their best qualities, though I don't like to admit it.
b. How do you NOT relate to them?
A: E6 - I feel like I don't have problems reaching my own conclusions... I definitely have cowardice, inner doubts and I am very anxious, sure, but not in the sense I can't make up my mind/make a decision, or rely on my own conclusion about most subjects.
E5 - I'm not that aloof. I definitely am aloof compared to most people, especially extroverts, but sometimes (though rarely) I can be reactive and pissed off - I am not detached from the environment all the time.
E4 - I don't call other people's attentions to my "uniqueness" IRL? I don't remember trying to stand out socially, just because I wanted to be seen as different. If anything, I'm too shy to do it. I am not always searching for a romantic partner, I don't feel like my life depends on it.
7. Which types are least like you?
A: E1, E9, E3, E8
a. Why specifically do you not relate to these types?
A: E1 - I am nothing like an orderly person who is constantly re-evaluating myself to see if I'm doing things "right" or "wrong". I am not a preacher, and I am not focused on others. I don't believe in a definite "right" formula for things, or humanity.
E9 - I don't feel like I am that passive, or that I blend with the environment. E9s apparently go with the flow; I don't.
E3 - I don't want to offend anybody, but this is the type I have some sort of aversion to. I don't even want to elaborate on it too much, but I don't really care about society's ideals of success. In fact, I think they are mediocre. I don't want "success" in the cliche sense of opening a business, making shitloads of money, or seeking fame for the sake of fame. I can be ambitious sometimes, but not in this sense at all. I dislike fakeness and feel like I can detect it easily.
E8 - I'm not assertive IRL, overconfident, or physical. I'm not focused on the external world, and I am generally too weak myself to protect others.
b. What points (if any) DO you relate to?
A: I don't relate to any of them at all. Maybe I can be very certain of my opinions sometimes like an 1 could be, but that's it.
8. They claim enneagram type is a hidden love need. What are your attitudes toward finding love?
A: This is a difficult question. I believe romantic connections should be made according to the emotional quality of the relationship. When I think about a romantic partner, I think about someone who has a very deep connection with me, and who I can share most of my life with. I think that unconsciously, I want someone "special".
9. What is the message your superego tells you?
Consider a time when you felt poorly about yourself--this means your ego (i.e. YOU) is receiving negative feedback from your superego. Write a conversation between the two of them--what is your superego telling you about how to be? (Note: this obviously is very personal and may be better done privately. Report your findings).
A: "You fucked up again. You are a basket case. You will never stop committing the same mistakes".
"You are a coward. You should be tougher. You run away from your fears".
"You will never be like him/her. This person goes through so much, and still manages to handle life better than you do".
"You don't know how to socialize properly. People seem to know how to do it instinctively, but not you".
10. Determine your ego ideal--the way you strive to be and want others to perceive you. (Note, you may be consciously aware of failing at this, and you will be hard on yourself if you do. If someone else tells you you're NOT this way, it may make you feel hurt, violated, or angry.)
Which of the following ideals resonate with you the most, and why? Rank them.
1. To be knowledgeable
2. To be sensitive, original, unique and creative
3. To be okay, having it together
4. To strive to become/behave like a good person
11. Determine your "felt sense" of life. To do this it may help to look at how you perceive events. Another way to do this is to look back at your childhood and think of all the things your parents did to you. How did you/do you feel about these events?
1. I have felt weak and/or vulnerable to attack
2. People have wronged and messed with me
3. I have a sense of being unimportant, insignificant, and underving of attention
12. Core fears. You may have been aware of these fears even as a very small child, before anyone did anything to influence it. You'd be mortified to be in this position or have others perceive you this way.
Discuss which fears have played the greatest role in your life:
1. - Something is basically wrong with me--I'm not good enough
2. A lot--everything and everyone to one degree or another. It's very generalized.
3. Being abandoned, sadness, feeling lost

 

[deathwarmedup]

Interesting. You could be the reverse of myself (6w5 with 4w5 elements) and much higher on the intuitive dimension. I dig a lot of what you say, esp. regarding a disdain for societal ideas of success. Searching for and never being satisfied with responses to this question could indicate a 6, but your candour doesn't (not 6w5 anyway). It indicates 4 and most of the rest indicates 4w5. And your concern with being understood. I couldn't be understood any better than you but I don't care; I'm just what I am. But then I'm not a Heart/relational type. Are you?

4w5 is a rare typing but in your case it might be correct.

 

[á´…eparted]

4w5 is a rare typing but in your case it might be correct.

Not around here. It's is easily the most common ennetype here, second possibly to 5. Out in the world all types seem about equal in population.

 

[deathwarmedup]

If I returned to Ennea forums after fifty years the 4w5s and 5w4s would still be queuing up to be counted.

 

[Thelema]

Interesting. You could be the reverse of myself (6w5 with 4w5 elements) and much higher on the intuitive dimension. I dig a lot of what you say, esp. regarding a disdain for societal ideas of success. Searching for and never being satisfied with responses to this question could indicate a 6, but your candour doesn't (not 6w5 anyway). It indicates 4 and most of the rest indicates 4w5. And your concern with being understood. I couldn't be understood any better than you but I don't care; I'm just what I am. But then I'm not a Heart/relational type. Are you? 4w5 is a rare typing but in your case it might be correct.

Thank you for taking your time to answer. I am glad somebody could relate to something I've said.
I reached a similar conclusion as you: I am either 4w5 with somewhat strong 6 elements, or 6w5 with strong 4 elements. I feel like both influences are present in my psyche.
You said I have candor. Maybe on the internet, or with people who are close to me, but overall, not really. I feel like I am the biggest liar there is. And I feel I have to lie every day, to function socially. I feel lonely, because even when I'm interacting with people, most of the times I'm not being myself. People are not seeing "myself". There are a lot of people who interact with me, but don't know me. I am very ashamed of myself, and of opening up. But unconsciously, I am always expecting intimate or ideal relationships/friendships. So yeah, I may be a relational type.
Depending on the source, there are times when I relate more to the description of the Six, to be honest (especially because some sites put a lot of emphasis on how Fours supposedly present themselves as openly emotional) - but I almost never relate to people who are used as examples of typical Sixes. I may be wrong, but I just can't see myself in them.

 

[deathwarmedup]

Thank you for taking your time to answer. I am glad somebody could relate to something I've said.
I reached a similar conclusion as you: I am either 4w5 with somewhat strong 6 elements, or 6w5 with strong 4 elements. I feel like both influences are present in my psyche.
You said I have candor. Maybe on the internet, or with people who are close to me, but overall, not really. I feel like I am the biggest liar there is. And I feel I have to lie every day, to function socially. I feel lonely, because even when I'm interacting with people, most of the times I'm not being myself. People are not seeing "myself". There are a lot of people who interact with me, but don't know me. I am very ashamed of myself, and of opening up. But unconsciously, I am always expecting intimate or ideal relationships/friendships. So yeah, I may be a relational type.
Depending on the source, there are times when I relate more to the description of the Six, to be honest (especially because some sites put a lot of emphasis on how Fours supposedly present themselves as openly emotional) - but I almost never relate to people who are used as examples of typical Sixes. I may be wrong, but I just can't see myself in them.

In my experience of 4s (mainly online because they tend to be relatively thin on the ground in real life compared to Attachment triaders, and I don't move in their circles), they are certainly not openly emotional. That's 6s, who can have difficulty containing their primary emotions even when they try. Fours are more about feelings - as opposed to primary emotion - and they may look to communicate these - to relate - but usually with a sense of dignity that comes more naturally to them than to Sixes and this is a key difference as many 6s are ultimately vulnerable to self-abasement (for complex reasons) - they not being subconsciously shame-based, with a corresponding conscious need for refinement and dignity. Moreover, 4w5s can even be somewhat cold and schizoid in their presentation and seem distinctly "Five-ish" - -more so than 6w5s I'd say. Fours come across to me as more composed and self-contained - often a bit distant, sometimes warm, but seldom if ever unrestrainedly or indulgently emotional.

Here is a more intellectual sort of 4w5 for comparison:

YouTube

Some 4-ish 6s-

Amy Winehouse
Angelina Jolie

Some intellectual 6s -

Snowden
Assange
Heidegger
Huxley
Orwell