What type do you see me as?

[SirCanSir]

I think that if you dont toy with ideas you dont examine enough sides to grow wise and see the benefits of many mindsets... understand how each side has its ways, its reasons that support it, pros and cons. I enjoy debunking ideas like that and settling on an opinion or just leaving it as a "?" in my brain if i cant find any proof... topics like religion. It helps me stop wondering about questions that arise and eat me all day/distract me but also it keeps me entertained to look beyond what is known here and now. I think its where the real value is. But you are right as far as ideas that are purely philosophical go, most of the time they arise questions and not solutions... questions about things that are proven being different, questions about reality as we know it.... sometimes they create doubt where it shouldn't be. That said, They also create doubt where it should be. Because the line of what should and should not be doubted is so hard to draw. True evolution begins from doubting so its better if we keep questions like these around even if some times they seem "full of shit". Because the answers cant always be found in traditional ways. Sometimes the whole process is wrong and something is missing. Something that lies in that doubt.
Anyways, I personally dont really like philosophy anymore with a few exceptions because im focused on solutions and not to swing ideas in my head. Philosophy most of the time plays with ideas and confuses you making it impossible to settle.
Still analyzing philosophy is a phase everyone should go through to answer their own questions or learn to live with them being unresolved. At least personally it helped me a lot with that.

[MENTION=36353]Hexcoder[/MENTION] I just realized this is an off topic answer omg.

PS: CANT DELETE i started talking my ass off in someone else's type me thread. Ok i need coffee. For real.

 

[Mind Maverick]

I think that if you dont toy with ideas you dont examine enough sides to grow wise and see the benefits of many mindsets... understand how each side has its ways, its reasons that support it, pros and cons. I enjoy debunking ideas like that and settling on an opinion or just leaving it as a "?" in my brain if i cant find any proof... topics like religion. It helps me stop wondering about questions that arise and eat me all day/distract me but also it keeps me entertained to look beyond what is known here and now. I think its where the real value is. But you are right as far as ideas that are purely philosophical go, most of the time they arise questions and not solutions... questions about things that are proven being different, questions about reality as we know it.... sometimes they create doubt where it shouldn't be. That said, They also create doubt where it should be. Because the line of what should and should not be doubted is so hard to draw. True evolution begins from doubting so its better if we keep questions like these around even if some times they seem "full of shit". Because the answers cant always be found in traditional ways. Sometimes the whole process is wrong and something is missing. Something that lies in that doubt.
Anyways, I personally dont really like philosophy anymore with a few exceptions because im focused on solutions and not to settle on ideas on my head. Philosophy most of the time plays with ideas and confuses you making it impossible to settle.
Still analyzing philosophy is a phase everyone should go through to answer their own questions or learn to live with them being unresolved. At least personally it helped me a lot with that.

@Hexcoder I just realized this is an off topic answer omg.

I'm not a fan of tradition (I do believe in challenging norms) and I do like to question the validity of things, I just don't like...what seems to me like pure speculation that doesn't serve a true purpose or cannot be followed up with evidence. Like...if something would require scientific investigation and I don't have the means to perform that and there's not really good research on it already, I'm not wasting my time on it.

I think it's on topic enough, and it helps, considering you're an ENTP, so the comparison can be good.

 

[SirCanSir]

I'm not a fan of tradition (I do believe in challenging norms) and I do like to question the validity of things, I just don't like...what seems to me like pure speculation that doesn't serve a true purpose or cannot be followed up with evidence. Like...if something would require scientific investigation and I don't have the means to perform that and there's not really good research on it already, I'm not wasting my time on it.

I think it's on topic enough, and it helps, considering you're an ENTP, so the comparison can be good.

SMH dont throw a label bias at me. I could be a sweet ESFJ im not settled. Because i can be very sweet. And very ESFJ.

 

[Mind Maverick]

SMH dont throw a label bias at me. I could be a sweet ESFJ im not settled. Because i can be very sweet. And very ESFJ.

Lol suuuurrre we'll go with that story
Still considering possibilities and keeping options open. ENTP confirmed.

 

[lunalum]

Just something random...I really have absolutely 0 patience for toying with philosophy. What's the point? You just go over possibilities and none of them can be proven. It's just talking in circles. Logically I know it has its place, but when I see something in the Philosophy and Spirituality section for instance, my typical reaction is an eye roll, a deep sigh, and it zaps my mental energy. "There's no way of knowing. Conclusion: don't know. Next topic..." Don't get me wrong, I can go over possibilities, I can think of plenty if I try. I also think it's good to sometimes if you want the most logical and accurate conclusion. I just don't like doing it when there's no true answer to be found. I hate brainstorming just to brainstorm. For me, theory is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself.

I'm pretty sure this is points for S and points against Ne.

This is very helpful. Ne is an objective function and so you don't have to necessarily love philosophy to be xNxP. But the way you talk here it seems like it is something you do not consciously experience (it is generally very difficult for people to describe their shadow functions). So I suspect it's not in your stacking. Also does read as general rejection of intuition. I also can't picture someone with prioritized Ti saying this.

Also...I don't plan jack shit. Routines suck the life out of me and I struggle to stick to them. Life seems so...mundane when I'm in a routine. I like variety in my schedule when I do have to have one. I struggle to stick to plans if I do make them. I don't even bother trying to plan my work projects, I just completely make up everything as I go because every time I've tried to plan I've changed it all around spontaneously anyway. As for organization...I'm about average. I'm perfectionistic as hell, but I don't see that as P or J (though I know some do). This is a lot of why I type as P over J.

So introverted and perceiving from this and what you said earlier. Also see it as an indication of Se. So ISxP. And with Ti-dom ruled out that leaves ISFP It's a little bit backwards of a typing method but it should still be sound.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Just something random...I really have absolutely 0 patience for toying with philosophy. What's the point? You just go over possibilities and none of them can be proven. It's just talking in circles. Logically I know it has its place, but when I see something in the Philosophy and Spirituality section for instance, my typical reaction is an eye roll, a deep sigh, and it zaps my mental energy. "There's no way of knowing. Conclusion: don't know. Next topic..." Don't get me wrong, I can go over possibilities, I can think of plenty if I try. I also think it's good to sometimes if you want the most logical and accurate conclusion. I just don't like doing it when there's no true answer to be found. I hate brainstorming just to brainstorm. For me, theory is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself.

I'm pretty sure this is points for S and points against Ne.

This is what I understand Te to be. I'm not sure what to say regarding Sensing or iNtuition, but I don't actually see much Ne in you. When you discuss ideas, it seems more ordered and structured than Ne. You tend to have a central focus of idea with elaboration and detail built onto it. Ne often pulls together more distant data points in new ways, and can enjoy that for the sake of it because it is good at seeing external relationships, so it sometimes enjoy that as a challenge. It often results in a specific sort of humor. I've also noticed that in general even the INTJs around here are not that speculative, but do rely on demonstrated facts. They might privately entertain more, but on the forums they tend to be very definitive.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I have this friend who is a clear Ti user and an e6 (triple reactive). He self-types as INTP but I think INFJ is probably more appropriate. I am quite fond of him, but sometimes interacting with him can be a bit draining for me because he is hyper-focused on precision in logic. He asks a lot of questions and tends to point out what he perceives to be logical inconsistencies. It seems rather compulsive on his part, instantaneous (which as a triple-reactive makes sense). A lot of his focus seems to be on language, and although I consider myself a low-key wordsmith and someone who values logic, I can see him doing something that to me is foreign, and that is combing over how things are stated. If there is even a single word that was used in a way which doesn't quite align with his understanding of it within the larger message conceptually, he will point it out or ask about it. He often says things like "hmmm, I dunno about that".

So, what I've noticed with Ti>Fe users (or perhaps more NiTi INFJs) who are e6 is that there is a palpable fixation on precision in logic. Things need to line up 1-2-3, and if they don't, the Ti 6 will take steps to work out the kinks. In a healthy person of this type, that involves questioning and discussion. In an unhealthy person of this type, that involves defensive leaps and accusations, or ad hominem attacks (that last part is especially notable in INFJs).

Now, I am sure you are wondering where I am getting NiTi as a preferred function use combination, and that is from the Objective Personality System. This is a system developed by (really more like identified by because they didn't "make" it, they observed the patterns and organized them) two NTJs, one who is NiFi and one who is TeSe. They noted major flaws in the traditional Meyers-Briggs/Jung approach which basically seemed to neglect to identify half of the population, which they refer to as "jumpers", and which the more pop-culturey typology community refers to as "looping". I do not believe in looping, although I do believe people can get stuck in their ways and fail to incorporate lesser used parts of themselves. Anyway, the system is laid out impressively, but it takes a long time to really get what it is that they have done and what they are looking for (I've studied it for probably around 2 years now and I am still working out some things). There are actually 512 types in this system (!!!), half of which are "jumpers". So, you have your traditional types which prefer to use their first two functions, and then you have your "jumpers" who are either extra introverted or extra extroverted.

I'm going to leave it at that as far as explaining the system goes, because I would never be able to teach it, and I am not sure of your interest level anyway. I merely wanted to present it as an alternative explanation for why you may be confused on your type. Half of people should be confused on their type because they are presenting as a fundamentally different type that isn't represented in other systems (you are presenting as an NT despite technically being an INFJ, or that is my theory at least).

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Just something random...I really have absolutely 0 patience for toying with philosophy. What's the point? You just go over possibilities and none of them can be proven. It's just talking in circles. Logically I know it has its place, but when I see something in the Philosophy and Spirituality section for instance, my typical reaction is an eye roll, a deep sigh, and it zaps my mental energy. "There's no way of knowing. Conclusion: don't know. Next topic..." Don't get me wrong, I can go over possibilities, I can think of plenty if I try. I also think it's good to sometimes if you want the most logical and accurate conclusion. I just don't like doing it when there's no true answer to be found. I hate brainstorming just to brainstorm. For me, theory is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself.

I'm pretty sure this is points for S and points against Ne.

For what it's worth, what I am seeing here is a discomfort or disrespect for ambiguity, which is what enneatype 6s largely want to avoid. I'm also seeing that precision in logic that I mentioned, as well as an imbalance in perception (data processing) in the sense that focusing on information processing "zaps (your) mental energy". This is something experienced more by N and S dominants because their other perceiving function is at bottom. T and F dominants are more balanced because they have more use of S and N in the middle.

A big issue for N and S dominants can be "I don't understand" syndrome, where they are more focused on filling in the missing information than T and F dominants who may be more focused on interpersonal issues between themselves and others. None of this is black and white though as I am pulling from a highly complex system of type classification. I hope it helps some anyhow.

 

[Luminous]

I still think you're a 9w8sx. You've just experienced a lot of growth and have learned how to better assert yourself. And you seek that 9sx merging experience the same way I do. You do not come off to those who know you better as being robotic in the sense of only being focused on a straight logical line.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Nothing I said indicated that you are robotic, for the record. That is not something I think of you, or the other person I used as an example.

I'm not interested in discussing this further here, so I will be leaving this thread permanently.

 

[RadicalDoubt]

Ignoring some of the information that I've seen here and focusing on what I've learned about you through interaction, I think 9w8 sx/sp works pretty well (with your focus on sp varying with levels of heath, to the point where you've at times seemed sx/so and at others seemed sp/sx). Perhaps I'm biased because that's what you've always typed around me, but it has always seemed to fit really well, cool headed and objective with an edge of reactivity and an aversion to manipulation/clouding of the truth. Not that vibes mean much of anything, but you really do come across as a gut core in conversations, I hate that I cannot point to specific examples to show this though. Tritype wise, I think 964 (in some order) could actually work quite well. If not 954 could be a secondary possibility.

Mbti wise I've always been at a loss with you. Socionics wise, LII or LSE seem like fine choices so, even though there isn't a 1 to 1 correlation I've always been inclined to think the Ti-Fe axis works pretty well for you? Reading @Saprophytic Aphrodite 's description utilizing objective personality's approach actually seems quite fitting, especially considering your specific irritation with "toying with philosophy" pointlessly. I do think that a combination of Ni and Ti could work, though I'm leaning to ISTP with an affinity for Ni.

(I don't know if any of this is helpful, if it's not sorry)

 

[Vendrah]

This is going to be long, but if you'd like to learn about psychopaths in the real world (not Hollywood) and how they work, and their victims and how they're affected, this is an opportunity to do so.

Lol it's funny, so many people ask if I code, etc. but the name is actually in reference to the way that color on digital media is specified using hexadecimal values. #FFFFFF is white, for example. So, "Hex Coder" is actually in reference to a color selection tool. It's more in relation to art than coding. I'd probably be a terrible coder.

Usually you would probably be accurate, but my life hasn't been normal and I also am not normal. A few things...

1) My dad was abusive and part of this consisted of emotional invalidation. I was basically raised to believe that emotions were bad things and a weakness. I was taught they're an illogical bias that people have. If I was an emotional person my dad would be triggered by it and I would be abused for it. In my case, being unemotional was a defense mechanism against being further abused.

2) I do have my own aversion to feeling emotional as well, but I've learned that aside from trying to be objective as my dad taught me to be (in some aspects he was correct, but some were unhealthy and I reject those now), it's also because I feel things with excessive intensity; thus, based on my personal experiences, emotions feel extremely unpleasant. Even the positive ones have been overwhelming, either because I was manic (I am bipolar) or because I feared that they would cloud my judgment somehow...which they often have done.

I chalk it up to these things because of developments that have taken place over the past several years.

A) Ever since stabilizing more on medications I find myself not really rejecting emotions as much. I don't give that much thought.

B) I've learned about emotional invalidation and have learned that it's not healthy to suppress or invalidate my own, and am accepting my emotions in order to learn healthier practices.

C) I have become more able to recognize when I'm emotionally dysregulated and I don't like being that way, nor do I trust my own self when I am. I'm aware that my emotions are disproportionate to the situations and I lack the ability to discern what is appropriate because my feelings are so intense that they have more influence over me than they should. I experience emotions as a clouding of judgment and a loss of control, therefore. I experience them as an obstacle that gets in the way of healthy approaches and better outcomes. So no, I do not like feeling, I do not like being triggered, I do not want that there. In reality though, I'm just trying to be healthier and more objective. In other words, say 1 is apathy, 5 is healthy, and 10 is extreme. I'm not trying to go from normal 5 to apathetic 1, I'm trying to go from extreme 10 to normal 5, but sometimes striving for apathetic 1 is the only thing that helps me get out of extreme 10. It's not normal or healthy to feel emotions to the extent I sometimes feel them. There are times when I'm far less reactive than most because I've been through so much more than most people and I have high thresholds of tolerance, but then there are other triggers that...something extremely petty that most would probably brush off (such as people not replying to me, which my brain often interprets as rejection) can make me feel suicidal for hours. It's not supposed to be that way, people aren't supposed to get suicidal because someone doesn't reply to them at a particular point in time. This is one reason I'm diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, I just feel things too much. Before I had meds at least...I only dreamt of feeling nothing. I'd rather have that than the extremes, but apathy is something I can't obtain. Deadening the sensations would be peace, bliss, compared to what I'm used to...or so I've always thought, but I wouldn't know because in reality it eludes me. I can't even get to normalcy on my own without meds, much less apathy. I don't know what it's like to feel nothing. All I know is, "please get me off this roller coaster" *turns and barfs into a bag* and then I got on pills so I'm like "whoa...so this is what normalcy is like? FINALLY." When I've said I wanted to kill off my feelings in the past it wasn't truly because that's what I wanted. I meant that I just wanted to feel okay. Of course, seeing as how I didn't always know I wasn't okay, I also didn't know that's what was going on and I thought I wanted to be numb because I hated feelings.

D) I've been learning to embrace that I'm an emotional person and not reject that aspect of myself just because my dad raised me to. There is almost a rebelliousness involved, as if I'm now accepting it as just a part of who I am. I feel too intensely, but on the bright side, I also have a lot of emotional depth. Ever since some people liked that about me and I realized it's not a bad thing to have, and how my dad raised me was wrong, I've since become able to be proud of that trait as a part of who I am. I don't care much anymore about who does or doesn't like it, it's just me. It's something I was never able to change, so I might as well embrace it.

I'm often surprised when I realize what I've been through isn't normal. I only just started to understand how abnormal it is in late 2018, early 2019. It still blows my mind that what I've been through isn't just some commonplace thing? I still struggle to believe that. Ever since I was a kid I just assumed that life was just that way for people. Things like...how I had 1 friend over one time in my childhood and after witnessing my dad abusing my mom she never spoke to me again, wouldn't look at me in the hallways at school...that didn't make sense to me until I was much older. The only reason it all seems wrong to me is because education is teaching me that it is, and that I am unhealthy, and that in order to break the cycle and not be toxic to others including my own kids someday, in order to be a healthy person, in order to learn to stop accepting unhealthy people as normal and not give them room to be in my life, I must change many things about myself. To say that I'm following what I feel just seems...to paint this picture of someone who knows right from wrong in all of this and has some inner guide or instinct that pushes against it all, and that is the furthest thing from the truth. That's why I'm seeking therapy, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I don't know what healthy looks like, I just know it's what I want.

There's also another factor at play here, which is...once again, how I was raised. My dad was really big on people changing, striving, growing, improving. Doing this was my ticket out of abuse and into the "golden child" place of the narcissist he is, except...I also have a good heart and truly wanted to "do the right things." My dad was stupidly good at making himself seem like a great person with pure intentions while manipulating you in reality. Changes he wanted you to make in order to make you into an extension of himself or get you to conform to his own extreme values and standards (which you could never truly live up to, btw) were instilled as things you should be doing in order to be a loving person or a decent human being, for example. I was not allowed to have a self...I was an extension of him in order to avoid abuse and win his favor, acceptance, approval, and of course...to be a decent human being, "different than the rest of the world" in that he taught me to trust literally no one, everyone was desperately ill-intentioned, even if they didn't see it in themselves, in order to isolate me from everyone else because then he'd maintain that narcissistic control. Again though, it was impossible to meet his standards. It was always a carrot on a string. I didn't feel that I was loved unconditionally, in fact I was taught that unconditional love isn't even real, that it's an unrealistic ideal that people have, that it was an irrational expectation. He's very good at using subtle twisted logic, plus he gaslit and butchered my self-confidence enough to make me dependent upon him to think and guide me, but I thought people who claimed to have or want it were living in a fantasy land. I legit thought that unconditional love was wrong. So...I worked really hard at being loved. I worked really hard at loving people. The self-improvement has become a strong part of my life though, it lingered on. I see the harm I cause in peoples' lives and I want to protect their hearts from myself just the same way I was, in my mind, protecting him. I think some part of me has learned...that I can't accept myself, my flaws. He couldn't be satisfied, his standards couldn't be met; everything I did was wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. He would emotionally and psychologically abuse me for literally hours and hours basically each and every day, sending the message that I'm constantly fucking up horribly. It interfered with jobs, school...I couldn't function as a normal human in society because being abused was taking up so much of my time. Neither could he, he didn't work a normal job, he lived a parasitic lifestyle and manipulated others (including me) to give him their resources to the point of suffering themselves. Part of me did it willingly because I had a big heart and wanted to be there for him and help him, and naive enough to believe his lies which compelled me to do so (such as that anything that wasn't a pretentious job always told him he was overqualified so that's why he couldn't get a job--see "grandiose" on psychopath list, he has every single trait on the lists except he never had legal consequences, he got away with everything well enough not to), and the other part was him making me believe that I was wrong if I didn't help him. He basically used the goodness of my heart against me to get what he wanted. I was working 2 jobs and paying no bills but couldn't even afford to buy myself clothes I needed. Also fucked up my 4.0 GPA in college and went back on my decision to major in psychology because of him. He made me think psychologists didn't know what they were talking about like his grandiose ass did. Of course, now I see that this was just him trying to avoid losing control over me--what would happen if I learned psychology and learned to recognize all that he was doing? Better manipulate me not to trust it so I won't listen!

Being unable to be "good enough" didn't stop me from trying though...and, in part, this was because of another way my dad "reprogrammed my mind" as he himself called it. I think he knew there was potential for me feeling hopeless and as though I could never be good enough. I think he knew that there was the risk of me giving up and not bothering to try because "I can't anyway so what's the point?" If I did that though, that'd reduce his affect on me, so he always taught me never give up. "Keep trying, you can do it." It's the perfect crime: on the outside he appears to be a loving father teaching his daughter perseverance and to be a better person, but meanwhile, he is driving me to pursue his own goals, to live as an extension of himself, to conform to his values and standards (the only "right" ones in existence if you ask him), to...whatever else it is that he wanted. It was a monster disguising himself as a loving and encouraging father.

My point is...the ways he treated me molded my perceptions of myself. I don't think I've grown out of seeing myself as constantly flawed, always falling short in everything...not because I'm falling short of his values or standards anymore, but just that I'm falling short of perfection...which is basically what his expectation was, too. I just keep on trying harder, getting better...and that improvement is the only way I know how to accept myself because it's the only way my dad accepted me. It's the only way I can love myself because it's the only way I was shown love. I'm never satisfied with myself. All of my confidence is built upon the fact that I strive to improve...which is exactly how he "programmed" me to be: "good job, so proud of you now that you're working on doing what I want you to do."

Don't worry, I think my life has just been abnormal enough to cause most people to misunderstand me. People tend to assess others with the assumption that they are typical, common, usual, and I'm basically just "the exception" to the majority. That's not to say that I'm special, but that...those who judge my actions in the same ways they would judge most peoples' will be wrong about me most of the time. You have to look closer to actually see me. This shit went on for as far back as I can remember. A psychopath shaped me, molded me, during all the most important phases in my development. Between that and my disorders, my actions the and the reasons behind my actions are going to be different than what it means when others do it. @Powehi that's why I am probably less of a fan of "actions speak louder than words" than some people are, because it's very easy to improperly assess and properly identify someone's actions. (Just mentioning because you recently talked about actions speaking louder than words and I thought what I'm saying here could have a dual purpose, also serving as a bit of devil's advocate or bring up a point about it.)

I actually wasn't rebelling against them. You misunderstood me again. I Google searched for a questionnaire and tried my best to answer it, but found that, like most of typology, it was overly limiting, confining...it was expecting narrow thinking. My tone was not one of rebellion, but of genuine frustration with my inability to answer them honestly and without limiting myself in some way that was purposely steering toward a type. If I didn't want to answer them I wouldn't have. That was a genuine attempt and my genuine thoughts on the matter, but I was throwing up my hands in frustration like "what the fuck is this? How am I supposed to answer this?" I gave it my best shot anyway and thought I'd try at least so people could share their thoughts on it anyway. Also, I didn't say "all these questions are stupid," I was talking about that one particular question that I posted that under. I'm getting kind of used to being misunderstood this way though, everyone does it.











I'm going to post this and make a separate post for the rest bc this is getting longer than I wanted it to be.

Your story made me search a lot about psychopathy, and I reached the conclusion that I know people with some psychopathic tendencies, but arent totally a psychopath.

I did the best I could in terms of typing. Dont know if I can proceed with much, really.

 

[Mind Maverick]

I have this friend who is a clear Ti user and an e6 (triple reactive). He self-types as INTP but I think INFJ is probably more appropriate. I am quite fond of him, but sometimes interacting with him can be a bit draining for me because he is hyper-focused on precision in logic. He asks a lot of questions and tends to point out what he perceives to be logical inconsistencies. It seems rather compulsive on his part, instantaneous (which as a triple-reactive makes sense). A lot of his focus seems to be on language, and although I consider myself a low-key wordsmith and someone who values logic, I can see him doing something that to me is foreign, and that is combing over how things are stated. If there is even a single word that was used in a way which doesn't quite align with his understanding of it within the larger message conceptually, he will point it out or ask about it. He often says things like "hmmm, I dunno about that".

So, what I've noticed with Ti>Fe users (or perhaps more NiTi INFJs) who are e6 is that there is a palpable fixation on precision in logic. Things need to line up 1-2-3, and if they don't, the Ti 6 will take steps to work out the kinks. In a healthy person of this type, that involves questioning and discussion. In an unhealthy person of this type, that involves defensive leaps and accusations, or ad hominem attacks (that last part is especially notable in INFJs).

Now, I am sure you are wondering where I am getting NiTi as a preferred function use combination, and that is from the Objective Personality System. This is a system developed by (really more like identified by because they didn't "make" it, they observed the patterns and organized them) two NTJs, one who is NiFi and one who is TeSe. They noted major flaws in the traditional Meyers-Briggs/Jung approach which basically seemed to neglect to identify half of the population, which they refer to as "jumpers", and which the more pop-culturey typology community refers to as "looping". I do not believe in looping, although I do believe people can get stuck in their ways and fail to incorporate lesser used parts of themselves. Anyway, the system is laid out impressively, but it takes a long time to really get what it is that they have done and what they are looking for (I've studied it for probably around 2 years now and I am still working out some things). There are actually 512 types in this system (!!!), half of which are "jumpers". So, you have your traditional types which prefer to use their first two functions, and then you have your "jumpers" who are either extra introverted or extra extroverted.

I'm going to leave it at that as far as explaining the system goes, because I would never be able to teach it, and I am not sure of your interest level anyway. I merely wanted to present it as an alternative explanation for why you may be confused on your type. Half of people should be confused on their type because they are presenting as a fundamentally different type that isn't represented in other systems (you are presenting as an NT despite technically being an INFJ, or that is my theory at least).

For what it's worth, what I am seeing here is a discomfort or disrespect for ambiguity, which is what enneatype 6s largely want to avoid. I'm also seeing that precision in logic that I mentioned, as well as an imbalance in perception (data processing) in the sense that focusing on information processing "zaps (your) mental energy". This is something experienced more by N and S dominants because their other perceiving function is at bottom. T and F dominants are more balanced because they have more use of S and N in the middle.

A big issue for N and S dominants can be "I don't understand" syndrome, where they are more focused on filling in the missing information than T and F dominants who may be more focused on interpersonal issues between themselves and others. None of this is black and white though as I am pulling from a highly complex system of type classification. I hope it helps some anyhow.

It makes more sense now why you'd type me as INFJ, you're using a different system than what I use. I don't think I could see myself as INFJ in the more well known system at least, but I can't say whether I could in the different one or not since I don't know it. It's at least interesting to hear a new angle. About the 6 part though, I will say, my disposition is one of not caring about the subject because of its ambiguity, whereas 6s seem to care too much about it. I think it'd be really hard to see myself as a 6 because of the way they doubt and question their own judgment or have an underlying need for support due to a lack of confidence, which is very opposite of me. I trust my own mind above others' and my dad's gaslighting, manipulation, etc. has sealed this in me from a trauma angle as well. I don't have any anxiety about uncertainties like philosophical discussion that leads to nowhere, I just see it as a pointless waste of time and think that I have better ways to spend my time. I don't want to seem closed-minded or argumentative by saying this, as it's not my intention, I'm just elucidating information about myself that seems contrary to the type. If I don't say it no one might know. I do think the traditional cognitive function stacks are far too limited, like...rn at this point in my life I relate to both Fi over Fe and Ti over Te from my own perspective, but there isn't a type like that. I at least always appreciate responses that are a bit more outside of the box like this. The boxes just fall short in my honest opinion.

I know you said you'd leave the thread permanently, but I'm still curious as to what you're seeing as Ni in me / what Ni is according to your understandings of things if you don't mind. If you feel like privately messaging it that'd be cool too. I personally don't see myself as Ni Dom in the system and definitions I'm used to, but perhaps your understandings of the typology system are different or you noticed something about me that I haven't considered before or something.

(you are presenting as an NT despite technically being an INFJ, or that is my theory at least).

The ISxP typing is actually serious, I'm not typing as NT anymore...but that's okay, ISTP could still kind of fall into what you're saying a bit, and even if not, you're still using a different system than what I have been and I might type as something different than what I am currently if I was using the one you're referring to.

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I still think you're a 9w8sx. You've just experienced a lot of growth and have learned how to better assert yourself. And you seek that 9sx merging experience the same way I do. You do not come off to those who know you better as being robotic in the sense of only being focused on a straight logical line.

I didn't get the impression anyone was saying I was robotic, but I'm also not sure you were saying anyone was...recently I had "not a robot" as my title on here, so if that was about the title I had...that was in reference to my dad trying to "reprogram my brain" as he called it when I was still around him, invalidating my emotions, and basically expecting me to be a machine emotionally and logically. The title was an expression of rebellion against the psychological oppression and embracing my emotional side as a part of who I am, accepting the fact that I have a lot of emotional depth and a colorful inner world. This used to be a side of myself I rejected and despised because he taught me it was faulty. It was about...being myself rather than who he wanted me to be, breaking free from his chains and embracing a side of myself I never was able to butcher despite my best efforts. I don't feel like people see me as a robot but thank you though. Hopefully this clears up any misunderstandings that may have occurred in this thread.

Also, that's kind of close to how I see things myself still. I've read somewhere that if you relate to the types it's indicative of lower health levels or something being off, which makes sense to me in the sense that Enneagram is 99% negative and also states that healthy 9s can assert themselves (although there isn't very much elaboration on it). I'm kind of glad if people don't see me as a 9 instantaneously though, as it implies that these negative issues aren't manifesting in me very strongly if they are at all. To me it's a good sign if I'm hard to pin down in Enneagram because it's all about negatives and low health, so I don't mind people seeing things differently.

 

[Mind Maverick]

Your story made me search a lot about psychopathy, and I reached the conclusion that I know people with some psychopathic tendencies, but arent totally a psychopath.

I did the best I could in terms of typing. Dont know if I can proceed with much, really.

I see, interesting. Sounds like they're probably toxic individuals though still at least.

No problem, I was just trying to clarify or correct any misunderstandings. I still appreciate the response.

 

[Luminous]

Also, that's kind of close to how I see things myself still. I've read somewhere that if you relate to the types it's indicative of lower health levels or something being off, which makes sense to me in the sense that Enneagram is 99% negative and also states that healthy 9s can assert themselves (although there isn't very much elaboration on it). I'm kind of glad if people don't see me as a 9 instantaneously though, as it implies that these negative issues aren't manifesting in me very strongly if they are at all. To me it's a good sign if I'm hard to pin down in Enneagram because it's all about negatives and low health, so I don't mind people seeing things differently.

Many things written about 9s are not well explained or are just plain faulty. Rather than it being about peace and harmony in the environment that a 9 is focused on, it's the internal. It's as if there's a level inside a 9 and they are striving to keep the bubble centered. When something happens that shakes us up and flips us around, a strong reaction in the opposite direction might be necessary to get back to the center. And sometimes growth is realizing that what we thought was centered wasn't healthy and that we have to endure a bit of being off balance in order to get to a more healthy place. Kinda like the charts where you keep track of emotions/moods... it's a more steady line that is sought after, rather than a roller coaster. You've also got the gritty dig-your-heels-in resolve of a 9w8, I think. It's an amazingly strong stubbornness. (Which I don't mean to imply is a bad thing at all. I think it's a great thing.)

 

[Red Memories]

Your MBTI type is iffy to me but I've always seen you enneagram wise as 8w9 core. Sx/Sp. Otherwise go into 5w6 and 3w4. Just my personal assessment.

throwing a coin toss at your MBTI, I could see STP for you, or possibly ENTJ.

 

[Mind Maverick]

Many things written about 9s are not well explained or are just plain faulty. Rather than it being about peace and harmony in the environment that a 9 is focused on, it's the internal. It's as if there's a level inside a 9 and they are striving to keep the bubble centered. When something happens that shakes us up and flips us around, a strong reaction in the opposite direction might be necessary to get back to the center. And sometimes growth is realizing that what we thought was centered wasn't healthy and that we have to endure a bit of being off balance in order to get to a more healthy place. Kinda like the charts where you keep track of emotions/moods... it's a more steady line that is sought after, rather than a roller coaster. You've also got the gritty dig-your-heels-in resolve of a 9w8, I think. It's an amazingly strong stubbornness. (Which I don't mean to imply is a bad thing at all. I think it's a great thing.)

This is very true about me still actually...I do still seek inner peace / try to maintain equilibrium, I just don't do it to the point of neglecting my problems anymore. If there are some messages I know will disturb my equilibrium though for instance, I don't want to click on the message box. I want to avoid it. I make myself anyway, but my nature is to either A) withdraw from, or B) eliminate things that disturb my peace.

I don't like merging though. I don't want to lose my sense of self. I don't think I'm enough of a people pleaser to merge anymore...not that that's the reason behind all merging, but I think it was for me. That, and a sense of belonging...with my family merging. That, and living as an extension of my dad.

 

[Red Memories]

This is very true about me still actually...I do still seek inner peace / try to maintain equilibrium, I just don't do it to the point of neglecting my problems anymore. If there are some messages I know will disturb my equilibrium though for instance, I don't want to click on the message box. I want to avoid it. I make myself anyway, but my nature is to either A) withdraw from, or B) eliminate things that disturb my peace.

I don't like merging though. I don't want to lose my sense of self. I don't think I'm enough of a people pleaser to merge anymore...not that that's the reason behind all merging, but I think it was for me. That, and a sense of belonging...with my family merging. That, and living as an extension of my dad.

If there are some messages I know will disturb my equilibrium though for instance, I don't want to click on the message box.
This screams more Fi to me than anything else. Actually the whole commentary above about seeking an inner peace is an Fi oriented thing. Fi is constantly assessing whether their behavior or thoughts align with their principles or self. Which you may have been prevented from doing before with your situation but now realize you desire or need. Just a coin to toss in the well.

 

[Mind Maverick]

If there are some messages I know will disturb my equilibrium though for instance, I don't want to click on the message box.
This screams more Fi to me than anything else. Actually the whole commentary above about seeking an inner peace is an Fi oriented thing. Fi is constantly assessing whether their behavior or thoughts align with their principles or self. Which you may have been prevented from doing before with your situation but now realize you desire or need. Just a coin to toss in the well.

Hmm. It wasn't that they didn't align with my principles, but that it was a stressful conversation to deal with because it was some conflict to work through. I think...to say it "doesn't align with my principles" makes it sound one sided if I call the conflict that. It was just two people having some things to work through.

 

[Vendrah]

Many things written about 9s are not well explained or are just plain faulty. Rather than it being about peace and harmony in the environment that a 9 is focused on, it's the internal. It's as if there's a level inside a 9 and they are striving to keep the bubble centered. When something happens that shakes us up and flips us around, a strong reaction in the opposite direction might be necessary to get back to the center. And sometimes growth is realizing that what we thought was centered wasn't healthy and that we have to endure a bit of being off balance in order to get to a more healthy place. Kinda like the charts where you keep track of emotions/moods... it's a more steady line that is sought after, rather than a roller coaster. You've also got the gritty dig-your-heels-in resolve of a 9w8, I think. It's an amazingly strong stubbornness. (Which I don't mean to imply is a bad thing at all. I think it's a great thing.)

Just to reinforce the first phrase of Luminous a bit...
Type 9 peace is very likely to be internal, considering the connections between enneagram and big 5/mbti.
Type 2 is supposed to be the highest agreeableness in Big 5, yet it is beat by type 9, although type 9 descriptions doesnt have much to do with agreeableness.
There should be some 9 aspects that are missed by most enneagram descriptions.