Video: INFJ Door Slam

[Ene]

^Well, let's just look at the doorslams/closes in my life, to clarify.

The people I've cut out:

1. The Door Slams:

A literary "fan" who sent me a polite email and we ended up talking on Skype for a while. At first, he was this really cool older gentleman who had worked for the government and enjoyed science fiction and writing. But after a few weeks into our friendship, he turned stalker who sent me countless emails about sex and wanted me to mail him my underwear and told me, "I know where you work." My mistake? I was nice to him and congenial because he was a "fan." He even contacted my workplace and every time I'd change my email, he'd find me. He was thoroughly convinced that I was some sort of pre-cognitive, clairvoyant that had been chosen by the "aliens" to use me to help him start a new religion and establish a colony on Pluto. I'm sorry, but yeah...I couldn't continue to have contact with him. I'm a teacher. I felt his craziness was not only a threat to me, but to my students, as well. Then there was the dude in California who emailed me and told me that he was John Lennon reincarnated and that he had been reading my work and was absolutely certain that the two of us were to start a new "movement." Yeah, I told him to get lost. A crazy cat woman who developed a fetish with me that made every Stephen King novel you've ever read seem all too real. I didn't want to end up a captive in her basement or something.

2. The friend who attached herself to me and started buying me gifts, who felt I was supposed to use my education and position to fund a daycare that she wanted to start because God had told her that I was "the one." She called me at work. She called me at home. She wanted to know who I ate with and why I ate with them and not with her. She said I was "aloof." I actually allowed her to come over and she started talking about the apocalypse and how we were going to have to go out west and live in a cave when it "all came down." She was very emotional and touchy feely and an hour spent with her made me feel like I was physically ill, so I sort of just kept making myself "unavailable." Then the day came when she called me and told me that if I didn't help her that God would never have a use for me. Needless to say, I started ignoring her calls after that. I simply didn't have the time or the energy to deal with that. I know she wasn't insane on purpose, but she needed professional help and I wasn't qualified to give it to her.

The Door Closings:

4, The friend who was simply "too busy" to miss me when I was gone. I never actually closed the door on her. I simply stopped calling her and I figured that if she wanted to hang out she knew my number. Fifteen years have gone by and she hasn't felt the need to call me. If I see her on the street or in a store, I still talk to her and am nice to her, but I don't call her and I don't go over there. I'm still here. The door swings both ways. If she feels the need to rekindle anything...here I am. If not, I'm not going to hunt her down.

5. A church where I used to go that I felt was becoming a cult. I had to walk out on a lot of friends then, but it is better to walk out free than to stay and be brainwashed into blindly following a man, which is what I was afraid of.

So, no the people, I closed the door on weren't purposely draining, but they were draining nevertheless and sometimes, you just have to walk away. I've never just walked out on someone without a valid, legitimate reason. Hurting my feelings isn't a valid reason, but threatening my survival or that of people I care about, even if it's just mentally, emotionally and physically draining like the Apocalyptic friend, it's still too stressful to maintain.

 

[Forever]

Yeah we're only human after all, why waste your life away trying to please others all the time?

 

[highlander]

Again, I have only ever done this about 4-5 times in my life.

I think one reason other types find it odd is that it doesn't happen to us at all. I've never cut off contact with someone who I was close to - not a single time. I have had it done to me a couple of times.

So 4 - 5 is a lot from my perspective.

 

[Kullervo]

Yeah we're only human after all, why waste your life away trying to please others all the time?

Ah well, in general I only think about myself. But romantic relationships are a little more complicated.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I think one reason other types find it odd is that it doesn't happen to us at all. I've never cut off contact with someone who I was close to - not a single time. I have had it done to me a couple of times.

So 4 - 5 is a lot from my perspective.

I am 45. I don't believe I have ever doorslammed anyone (though I put people on a naughty list where I don’t care what they do, but I will still treat the person mostly civilly). Even if I tell someone off with epic blasts, I don't cut them off and I give them a chance at reconciliation.....

 

[Betty Blue]

I am 45. I don't believe I have ever doorslammed anyone (though I put people on a naughty list where I don’t care what they do, but I will still treat the person mostly civilly). Even if I tell someone off with epic blasts, I don't cut them off and I give them a chance at reconciliation.....

IMO EIE are one of the least likely types to door slam anyone. It seems they have an amazing ability to 'forgive' people.

 

[Dyslexxie]

I experienced this once with my old best friend who is an INFJ (and have also seen her do it to others before me). I've seen her become incredibly emotional with others and be deeply hurt, to the point where it became a very raw, hurtful break from them.
With me, it began as a slow fade, and we've since entirely stopped talking. I've certainly made an effort but she's withdrawn entirely without an explanation. I'm not sure if it was a more calm process than the previous ones for her (from my end it seems that way anyway), but yeah, I would certainly see this as a door slam and I don't really see how it will reopen.

 

[1487610420]

Fak ai barn ma tost

W8, dus into de random through thread?

 

[Lexicon]

I think one reason other types find it odd is that it doesn't happen to us at all. I've never cut off contact with someone who I was close to - not a single time. I have had it done to me a couple of times.

So 4 - 5 is a lot from my perspective.

Considering two were overtly dangerous (the mentally ill guy who fixated on me/moved/rendered himself homeless/lived in an airport for 10 weeks to try to get close to me/saw secret 'love' messages from me in everyday life - & the ex boyfriend who physically attacked me on multiple occasions), I'd really narrow it more down to 2-3. Anyone with common sense would distance themselves from the first two.

A possible factor in this - you may be less prone to allowing yourself to get close to psychologically toxic people, to begin with.

they're more about people whom I realized really only wanted to drain me, use me, stalk me, threaten me, etc. There are people in this world who will do that, people who will take and take and take and suck your life's energy until you have nothing left to give, and sometimes, you have to cut them loose and let them go simply to survive, mentally, emotionally and sometimes, physically, too.

Pretty much this. ^

Ideally, one learns from these experiences, & grows more discerning about who they try to let in, in the first place.

 

[Eilonwy]

I think one reason other types find it odd is that it doesn't happen to us at all. I've never cut off contact with someone who I was close to - not a single time. I have had it done to me a couple of times.

So 4 - 5 is a lot from my perspective.

Re: bolded: Perhaps you should factor in male/female dynamics into this equation, too.

Plus, we established in the Doorslam thread that we INFJs have difficulty defining the doorslam in the first place. We tend to ignore the phrase "close relationships" when talking about our experiences and then include people who we weren't close to that have behaved in ways which would likely cause anybody of any type to curtail contact. I speculate that accurate data on the number of doorslams from INFJs themselves is difficult to get because we likely don't recognize when we do a real doorslam. We don't perceive it as a doorslam. And what we do perceive as a doorslam, from the stories I keep seeing, seems to not be what other types are talking about when they talk about being doorslammed.

I didn't watch the video yet, so I can't comment on it, but I thought the above opinion and speculation might be helpful to the discussion.

 

[cascadeco]

A possible factor in this - you may be less prone to allowing yourself to get close to psychologically toxic people, to begin with.

This may be a lot of it.

I think INFJ's in particular can have a combo of being 'too open' initially (lots of benefit of doubt with layers of rationalizations/justifications), combined with lack of setting boundaries or realizing boundaries need to be set until months or years later, always putting needs of other person ahead of theirs, then a dynamic is established, all of which can lead to really belatedly realizing something may not be such a good thing. Then need to 'doorslam' when could have been avoided from the get go if aware of needs/boundaries and placing equal value on self as the other person.

Though prob most feelers are prone to this, moreso than T's at least. But I think FJ's esp can struggle with losing sense of self to another?

 

[Z Buck McFate]

It's supposedly a last resort defense mechanism where the INFJ puts up a huge wall. There are two kinds
1. Raw emotional doorslam - INFJ feels really hurt. The person violated and betrayed you in some way or you feel they don't care about you.
2. Rational thought out door closed - This works when the iNFJ uses it on a thinking type. It is more calm and reasoned out. Maybe you felt they didn't care about you and you made a lot of effort to talk to them. They feel the relationship is too one sided

I guess I can kind of see these "two kinds".

There are the times when I have to stop interacting with someone because there's some kind of nasty negative emotional charge- it can be an incredibly strong visceral reaction- and everything they say or do makes it worse, so I need to discontinue interaction until I can at least figure out what's causing it. It's like I described here- it's really hard to know what to do when there's a super strong emotional charge ("WHOA, where'd this feeling come from?!") whilst having no idea what's causing it. It gets to the point where I won't care what's making that hysterical monkey (who can't communicate exactly what's wrong, but feels the need to communicate SOMETHING is wrong) fly into a spastic interpretive dance/tantrum- which only intensifies with continued exposure to the thing causing it. I'll only know that I need it to stop, at least for a while. (And the older I get, the more I realize there's ALWAYS a good reason for it- even if it takes years for me to see what that reason is.) I can potentially see this as qualifying for the "raw emotional doorslam".

Then there are other times where I just don't see much ROI in investing time in someone. I sort of block out incoming information from them so that we can co-exist around each other without it being too taxing to be around them. This sounds a little bit different from the way he describes "rational thought door closed"- but that's how I experience what I might categorize as a 'rational thought doorslam'.

Loyalty

I wouldn't remotely say I'm cavalier about applying those^ experiences to people I'm close to. I don't get close to people who aren't interesting enough to me to get past the latter in the first place. And I've had the 'raw emotional doorslam' happen with a couple of people I was close to- but I think my obligation to people has actually kept in relationships far longer than I should have been in them ('crockpot' explanation below might help make this statement more understandable).

Blaming

As for the "blaming" thing- you're not the first INTJ to say this, and I can't help but suspect language is at play here. I mean, it's hard for me to completely understand how this kind of thing could be assessed by what someone is immediately saying. I think that INFJs "considering the source" is a very big part of how we process information- what someone is immediately saying is only a fraction of what their words 'mean'. So to me, the biggest difference between an INFJ who regularly demonstrates (in other ways) mindful/healthy accountability in their interactions vs. one who externalizes blame for their emotions (and ergo, "doorslam" as a way of fleeing uncomfortable feelings rather than the warranted protecting of oneself) is far more in my accumulated experience of observing their everyday reactions than it is to be found in what they're immediately saying.

Also, I presume it has to do with the fact that INFJs aren't wont to include the internal factors that went into it. It really sucks to have an emotional charge that doesn't begin to make sense, and yet for it to be so strong that it's unbearable to continue interacting with the thing that's causing it- it really is like having an autistic idiot savant monkey in my head that I can't ignore. It really sucks to be less mercurial than the other 98% of the population where "figuring out why something is grating" is concerned. When people say, "Why don't you just tell the person what's wrong?"- it's like microwave saying "Why can't you cook this in less than 60 seconds?" to a crock-pot. I already know (and take accountability for the fact that) I'm a crockpot, and feel quite bad about it on a regular basis. But if someone asks me why I had to back away from people I've backed away from, I'm not inclined to include all of that. Because for one, it feels so "me me me me me"- if someone wants the internal reasons, they need to explicitly ask for the internal reasons. I'm not going to dump a load of unsolicited "me me me me" on someone. But also, it's private. I'm not likely to explain the internal reasons to someone who hasn't personally earned that degree of trust.

I just sort of take for granted that who I am as a person will be taken into account- more than what I'm immediately saying. It seems like that's not being taken into account though, when I hear this thing about it sounds like INFJs "blame" others. Because that's nowhere in the explanation for why it looks like blame- that explanation is always about the way we're immediately describing why we discontinued interaction, without regard for the 'source'.

 

[estorm]

Interesting thread. Thanks [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION].

My wife is an INFJ and I've been in her life through several of these doorslams. Many good points have been made already, and great observations by those who've done it and described their experiences. So thanks for all that.
I'll add my view of what I've seen and heard my wife explain/express and see if that adds more to the picture we are all building here.

She's in her mid-50's and has done it several times (like once every few years, maybe). There are harder and softer ones, and overall as she has grown personally and just had more conscious experience with it she has been able to do it with more control and finesse - which I can tell is not easy.

She's also an Enneagram 6, which I think helps explain some of it. Loyalty has been mentioned by many here, and yeah it's a big thing. She sees her whole world through the relationships and in particular the reciprocal nature of them. As an earning type, she gives a lot and wants the bond that comes when the other gives a lot as well. But a serious and constant imbalance can definitely strain the relationship. At some point that imbalance may be enough to cut things off, though this would be a softer type, say, stop reaching out or being available.

The harder doorslams are also emotional, and seem to require a triggering event. Something where the "abuse" (being taken advantage of, being used, emotional tone, etc.) or offense (major disrespect, public humiliation, etc.) causes an immediate and permanent stop to the relationship. In almost all cases there were heated words form both sides and a lack of closure as it shuts down. The speed, degree of emotion, and absoluteness of the ending often stuns the other person - scared, shocked, angry, uncomprehending as well.

It seems to be something that builds up, countered by the affinity, good will, and effort put into the relationship. Many times it seemed that the closer or more meaningful the relationship, the stronger the slam was. I think this is in part because they move the person from being on the inside circle to an outside circle of people they feel they can trust with a relationship. The clarity of "in or out" also seems to help offer her peace of mind - something a 6 does to avoid second guessing themselves or feeling ambivalent. And this adds to the "slam" versus decision or slow change feel to it. They are also emotional events, so it doesn't always seem rational (i.e. perhaps it could be avoided or solved - but that path is no longer possible).

In her younger years, I think it was harder to own a fair share of the "blame". It seemed to her that the other person's behavior was so egregious that the reaction made sense. It hurts them too and is a difficult experience, so they don't do it lightly and don't usually feel very good about it. As she got older and more self-aware, she felt worse about them, even if she couldn't help doing it. Now she seems to be more making a decision, albeit something quite quickly, and is more at peace that it is the best course of action. She also handles the situation better, more able to talk with the other person if that is appropriate, or at least talk to me in ways that make a lot of sense.

The other thing I want to bring up is being the partner of an INFJ doing this.
These relationships end quickly and permanently, and there is no discussion or alternative. A couple times she told be I could continue to contact them, but I could tell that would be a tricky line to walk and would not feel good to her. So in virtually all cases, the relationship between me and the other person also ended. It was often shocking or surprising to me, and earlier this was harder than now. I think we are more aligned on what a healthy relationship is and what we want in our lives. She is also more mature with this, so it makes more sense and is handled better.

Thanks, again, for an interesting thread. I look forward to seeing what else people come up with.

 

[uumlau]

My synopsis on the INFJ "door slam"

First of all, I think the video is just "off". I don't think it has it right at all.

It is very helpful to realize that the "INFJ door slam" is a stereotype. In other words, other people see it in INFJs, but INFJs as often as not are unlikely to see it in themselves. This is kind of like the INTJ death stare: the INTJ doesn't realize that there is even a stare, never mind "death".

So we need to look at what INFJs habitually do in such a way that they would not usually be conscious of it. I've had quite a few INFJs in my life, so I think I have a good grasp of the overall pattern.

The first thing to realize is that INFJs are very interested in connecting and getting to know people. When they're younger, especially, they tend to be very trusting. However, in spite of auxiliary Fe, INFJs are Ni-doms and tend to be very naive about human nature. This need to connect with people plus the naivete is the underlying dynamic of the INFJ door slam.

The INFJ gets to know someone and everything is going fine. THEN they realize, "Holy shit!", there's something really wrong/bad about the person. Or the realize that they're just "too close" and the relationship is "imbalanced". Or the relationship doesn't otherwise meet the INFJ's expectations of what it "should be". (This can make it difficult to nail things down, personality-wise, as "should be" is very different from INFJ to INFJ.)

So they panic. They have to cut things off 100%, because they simply have no other good idea on how to handle it. (Remember, we're starting from naivete, here. I'll be discussing how INFJs appear to grow out of it, too.) Sometimes it's personal, because the other person just did something really bad that totally disillusioned the INFJ (it could be "not that bad" from the other person's perspective). Sometimes it's more impersonal, as the INFJ realizes that "this isn't what I want in a friendship/relationship" and that new self knowledge affects all their relationships to some degree. The individual reasons differ, but the unifying feature is that there is no "good way to end it". In most cases, the relationship/friendship has reached the stage where things are "too close" and no matter what happens, both people are going to get hurt - even if it isn't a romantic relationship!

There are several reasons for the the "too close" aspect appearing, too many to go over in detail, but I'd say the main one is that there is kind of a naive optimism that is very common in younger INFJs w/r to human nature: the overall assumption that kindness begets kindness, that most people are good, kind and decent, and a willingness to overlook personal flaws (since the INFJ is all too aware of his/her own personal flaws). This severe lack of skepticism about human nature is what allows INFJs to get "too close", at which point the "door slam" is metaphorically ripping the band aid off instead of slowly peeling it off.

Older INFJs tend to grow out of this by developing a sense of skepticism about human nature, especially as they grow into their ISTP side. While INFJs are idealistic, they are anything but stupid, and after having been hurt several times, they become VERY aware of what kinds of red flags and other danger signs to watch out for. If the INFJ has been hurt/betrayed too often, this skepticism can be extreme and there is kind of a guarded bitterness in their personality. In other cases, the INFJ instead gains an aura of gentle wisdom, and their skepticism is cause for sadness (for the other person whom they dare not let close) and not resentment.

TL; DR - INFJs like to have very close intimate friendships and relationships, but tend to be indiscriminate with respect to who they let in, especially when young, hence they're stuck having to "door slam" to get out of such binds.

 

[Forever]

[MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION] The man. The myth. The legend.

I felt like for the first time in a long long time, that you were talking about me when reading about this. I do consider myself very naive and very very curious about human nature. Our Ni doesn't really be useful until after the experience it is fed on. However, and this is just personally me. I held on to bad relationships for a long time hoping there would be change and some of them were peel the band aid so slowly that the air would pull it off if you what I mean.

Others are like that band-aid was on for like 2 seconds and it is not coming back on again.

 

[uumlau]

Thanks [MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION]!

I should note that one of the ways I know I'm dealing with an INFJ is that I figure out very quickly that I need to treat them gently. (Remember, that even though I'm an Enneagram 9, I'm 100% INTJ. It is very easy for me to say something "wrong".) I give my INFJ friends a lot of space, and plenty of time to do their personal contemplation, without requiring an answer right away.

Interestingly, INFPs tend to be more raw, more rough-and-tumble, emotionally speaking. INFPs can interpret my self-conscious gentleness as inauthentic. Not that you can get away with treating INFPs badly for long - they just have different reactive tendencies that I won't go into here as it's off topic. I just wanted to note the distinction.

 

[Forever]

Thanks [MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION]!

I should note that one of the ways I know I'm dealing with an INFJ is that I figure out very quickly that I need to treat them gently. (Remember, that even though I'm an Enneagram 9, I'm 100% INTJ. It is very easy for me to say something "wrong".) I give my INFJ friends a lot of space, and plenty of time to do their personal contemplation, without requiring an answer right away.

Interestingly, INFPs tend to be more raw, more rough-and-tumble, emotionally speaking. INFPs can interpret my self-conscious gentleness as inauthentic. Not that you can get away with treating INFPs badly for long - they just have different reactive tendencies that I won't go into here as it's off topic. I just wanted to note the distinction.

That's good! Letting us collect ourselves keeps us at our best with little to none contention among us. Oh the 9? Don't worry about it. I'll still consider you an INTJ. Understandable.

Yeah I wouldn't know how as an INFP it would all work out. I can see inauthenticity in other ways, but yes for another thread.

 

[estorm]

Great post overall, [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION].

The combination of desire to be in relationship with the idealism/naivete is a great insight.

And this is a great insight too ...

new self knowledge affects all their relationships to some degree.

... which means that you can't just look at the immediate situation and relationship.

The developing skepticism and caution over time also a good point.

Thanks.

 

[GIjade]

The other things I bring up is being the partner of an INFJ doing this.
These relationships end quickly and permanently, and there is no discussion or alternative. A couple times she told be I could continue to contact them, but I could tell that would be a tricky line to walk and would feel good to her. So in virtually all cases, the relationship between me and the other person also ended. It was often shocking or surprising to me, and earlier this was harder than now. I think we are more aligned on what a healthy relationship is and what we want in our lives. She is also more mature with this, so it makes more sense and is handled better.

You sound like a supportive partner to your wife. It sounds like you really love her. To be able to discuss these kinds of things with your partner and help make decisions is one of the things I think makes a marriage/life partnership strong and loving. When there is no one else in the entire world to talk to, one should be able to talk to their best love. She is very fortunate to have you.

 

[GIjade]

I don't know why INFJs have a tendency to do this more than other types. It seems like irrational/harmful/unproductive behavior. Why not address the issues earlier than wait till they get to some kind of boiling point and then cut the person off.

Maybe because the other party won't discuss the issues?