• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[ENFP] Why are ENFPs the most "introverted extrovert"

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
You feeling jealous there Starry? :laugh: ok but seriously, we don't want your eyeballs to fall into your insides, it's just going to be all brown and stuff.

ok ok, I'll really get serious now. Uhm, yeah I recall sending you a rep, unless you can track it, but didn't I ask you if you were 6w5? Or did you take that as a typing? Anything else you want to mention?


I was away from my computer and started worrying...thinking..."that didn't come out the right way what I said with regards to chubber" and I just returned with the intent of editing but you beat me! I'm glad to think you know me better now and know that I'm poor in communication...not in thought. My intention was to limit Mr. Suggestibility to just under 3,000 different understandings of himself for the day (the eyeroll was for him)...not to comment negatively on your typing of us as I think it does make a lot of sense...especially as far as my type is concerned. This is what I told you in the 7s thread...


[MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION]

I know I most likely seem 6w5 on the forum but I'm a 7w6 with a cp wing.
 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I was away from my computer and started worrying...thinking..."that didn't come out the right way what I said with regards to chubber" and I just returned with the intent of editing but you beat me! I'm glad to think you know me better now and know that I'm poor in communication...not in thought. My intention was to limit Mr. Suggestibility to just under 3,000 different understandings of himself for the day (the eyeroll was for him)...not to comment negatively on your typing of us as I think it does make a lot of sense...especially as far as my type is concerned. This is what I told you in the 7s thread...

Ok Starry. Stay classy

 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
Why would the dean make the comment that other students think I'm stalking them and make them uncomfortable? A lot of times, I don't even notice other students. Also, she mentioned professors disliking how I blurt out "tangentally related topics" during class.


You know I've worked at a couple of different colleges and universities... And while I recognize I live in a highly liberal/progressive/pc part of the world... it is so very hard for me not to first think... *first* before any other consideration... that you misunderstood. I can't help but think you heard wrong.

I've known students (parents of the students) with lawsuits, civil rights groups, the media, etc. against the college for less than what you describe...

You can't go into the Dean's office to file a formal complaint against a professor...and have that Dean use that same time to tell you all of what is wrong with you. There's protocols that must be followed in these instances. They can't try to discourage you from taking action by saying "well, just so you know...lots and lots of people think you're fucked up"... especially when that student has a documented disability holy fuck... can you say "administrative leave in 3...2...1"?

Likewise, do you know how rare it is for students to report actual stalkers to campus authorities? And I'm supposed to believe *many* people have approached the Dean to report that you merely seem like a stalker? (no evidence of actual stalking) Do you know how a Dean would respond to a professor that couldn't handle a "routine blurter"?

I don't think you understood correctly or you should now be filing a formal complaint against the Dean.
 

Avocado

Permabanned
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
3,794
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
You know I've worked at a couple of different colleges and universities... And while I recognize I live in a highly liberal/progressive/pc part of the world... it is so very hard for me not to first think... *first* before any other consideration... that you misunderstood. I can't help but think you heard wrong.

I've known students (parents of the students) with lawsuits, civil rights groups, the media, etc. against the college for less than what you describe...

You can't go into the Dean's office to file a formal complaint against a professor...and have that Dean use that same time to tell you all of what is wrong with you. There's protocols that must be followed in these instances. They can't try to discourage you from taking action by saying "well, just so you know...lots and lots of people think you're fucked up"... especially when that student has a documented disability holy fuck... can you say "administrative leave in 3...2...1"?

Likewise, do you know how rare it is for students to report actual stalkers to campus authorities? And I'm supposed to believe *many* people have approached the Dean to report that you merely seem like a stalker? (no evidence of actual stalking) Do you know how a Dean would respond to a professor that couldn't handle a "routine blurter"?

I don't think you understood correctly or you should now be filing a formal complaint against the Dean.
She is dean of students. Who is above her?

Then again, I'm stuck in a conservative area getting a useless degree I hate. I'm just trying to figure out a way to get a masters in something I like that will make good money so I can leave this backwards part of the world and buy the things that make life enjoyable. From my experience money may not DIRECTLY buy happiness, but it buys the things one needs to be happy.
 

Bardsandwarriors

Xena's boyfriend
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
100
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
"As Extraverts they are not opposed to action, while as Intuitives, they are not opposed to reflection. In this sense, ENFPs represent a sort of hybrid between Introverts and Extraverts."

I've never quite understood that, because you could say the same about any extravert, refering to their auxiliary. Eg. Se-Ti for an ESTP. Why is Ne-dom a special case?

And if it's about intuition, why not Ni as well (for ENFJ/ENTJ)?
 

PumpkinMayCare

𝓛ιкєтнє𝓓єνi lмαу
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
1,078
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
714
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
I've never quite understood that, because you could say the same about any extravert, refering to their auxiliary. Eg. Se-Ti for an ESTP. Why is Ne-dom a special case?

And if it's about intuition, why not Ni as well (for ENFJ/ENTJ)?

I think this is badly worded and it's the combination of these two functions (Ne+Fi) and a whole lot of other factors why most ENFPs neither come across as extraverts nor introverts. There was this article about different ENFPs telling how they go through social and non-social phases and how people often recognize these phases because they (ENFPs) switch from extraverting to introverting and backwards.

My best guess is with Ne and Fi it's kind of a special combo when it comes to appearing extroverted or introverted. I have never seen the same dynamic with INTJs, going from cracking jokes, bouncing ideas off of you, dragging you into the next cinema etc, and then when the Fi says "wait, stop, I need time for myself" going to barely speaking even when sourrounded by friends.

There was another interesting article I read about how Fi is a slow reflection process for ENFPs, making them rather indecisive because it's an auxiliary function, while Fi-doms don't have these problems with indecisiveness. Now take Ne, which is actually an extroverted function BUT it is an indecisive function as well (so many possibilities, which one should I take?), which means as an Ne-dom you rely on either Fi or as an ENTP to make decisions via Ti/Fe. Because of that Ne+Fi are being very unclear und insecure judgement-processes, an ENFP needs longer to make judgements. Because of that, an ENFP may go hide in their Fi from time to time (appearing introverted) after a while of extroverting to finally feel less restless and like they're floating around without any direction, to sort things out unconsciously. But because that needs Fi and Fi is a slower process for ENFPs, that may need some time. When they finally have sorted the issue out they'll come back to Ne and start being their extroverted selves.

I've got a few points to add to this:
.) I've seen these phases not only with myself but also with other ENFPs
.) This seems to be more a thing for younger ENFPs, because after I strenghend my Fi and then developed Te I've become less and less flip-floppy about appearing extroverted vs introverted. It may also have something to do with how difficult some ENFPs find it to make judgements. We, as an ENFP, have a special hate relationship with judgements and decisions and for some it's even harder and they want to keep things non-judgemental. But this is all directed towards the younger ENFPs, when this constant and wrong approach to deal with Fi backfires and may throw you into a looong introverted phase. I've seen it with an ENFP friend when we both were 16/17. As you get older you start to know how to deal with Fi and that may help flip-flapping less ... but Ne+Fi is still a more complicated function pair to make decisions and judgments with than any other pair.
.) Fi-doms have that problem most likely less because as an Fi-dom their values are more defined cause it's their dom function. With ENFPs it's less defined because Fi is the auxiliary and as an Ne-dom you prefer to go into things with an open mind and then put judgement on things. (Yeah, I know Bardsandwarriors, you are an ENFP so you most likely already knew that. Just explaining for Newbies, if there are any lurking :))
.) Not only is Ni less indecisive than Ne but INTJs, ENTJs have a thinking function to make judgements easier. INFJs and ENFJs have Fe (ENFJs leading with Fe), which is way less philosophical and individualistic and also they don't have Ne.

But I wouldn't say other types don't experience that push-pull between an extroverted function and an introverted function. Even more so if one of it is under- or overdeveloped, then they may experience that flip-flap and I wouldn't be surprised if you could tell it sometimes by types shutting down/not wanting to speak to someone or being overly extroverted.

.) This is just a theory till now. If you have more insight related into this, read some interesting articles about Ne+Fi please let me know.
 

Bardsandwarriors

Xena's boyfriend
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
100
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
.) This is just a theory till now. If you have more insight related into this, read some interesting articles about Ne+Fi please let me know.

Not "just a theory", I think you are describing reality as it stands, and very usefully thank you!

When I was younger I knew my judgement was erratic - sometimes good, sometimes poor. But, without knowing anything about MBTI, I knew that my judgement was a slow-burn. I knew I had to very gradually accumulate perspectives on the world, and build up an understanding of everything, piece by piece, and that later on in life, it would all make sense.

Ne naturally wants to be as open-minded as possible, so that nothing is missed; the best solutions are always seen, somewhere; and you never want to accept something simply because someone else accepts it. You don't want to discount any single viewpoint, because that would hurt the person holding it without knowing for sure whether it is valid or not. You give extra weight to obscure ideas because you want to look at them properly, when no one else is. So in Ne perceiving mode, you are not judging - you are just taking things in. But after a while, you have too much information and worry that you might be led the wrong way, so you crave some time to make sense of it before going further.

For that reason, I believe ENFPs (and perhaps ENTPs) - especially when young - exist in a permanently quantum state, with 10 different ways of seeing every subject. I know that I learned to evaluate information on the basis of multiple viewpoints, and had ways of keeping all in mind, while gradually investigating them. I found ways to juggle them and switch from one to another, before I knew which ones were valid or realistic. So a young ENFP can be easily led into wild, silly ideas - not because they are silly, but because they want to see everything, before coming to their own judgement on it later. That might be musing randomly while doing some ordinary solitary activity, or daydreaming, or in your dreams at night.

One by one, over the years, my prophecy proved correct, in that the balls gradually fell into the right places, and I began to connect up everything that I had experienced, and make sense of everything. So throughout my 20s, 30s and 40s, in my private musings with Fi, I had a-ha! revelations about all sorts of things, as I connected up the dots and put them in perspective. (I've developed a habit of saying out loud, in a whisper or quiet voice, some conclusion that I'd suddenly reached, which I realise is eccentric - but serves its purpose!) It might be surprising to people who only know younger ENFPS and think them foolish, to learn that older ENFPs can be very wise, because of the slow-burn of Ne-Fi. I am glad I did nothing by the book (usually threw it away!), and refused to believe things just because other people did, and I am glad I had the patience to accumulate viewpoionts (Ne mode) before making judgements on them (Fi mode).
 

PumpkinMayCare

𝓛ιкєтнє𝓓єνi lмαу
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
1,078
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
714
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Not "just a theory", I think you are describing reality as it stands, and very usefully thank you!

When I was younger I knew my judgement was erratic - sometimes good, sometimes poor. But, without knowing anything about MBTI, I knew that my judgement was a slow-burn. I knew I had to very gradually accumulate perspectives on the world, and build up an understanding of everything, piece by piece, and that later on in life, it would all make sense. [...]

That ties in very neatly with my own experiences. It was only when I was about 22 or something, I got a tighter grip on my own perspective and from there on it somehow spiralled into a very tightly braided "system", you could call it, full of perspectives, opinions and judgements. Now I'm not as indecisive anymore, to be honest, it's rather rare for me to not know how to deal with a situation.
And I feel like my understanding of the world has expanded extremely quickly for the last years.

Thanks for your insight!
 

Avocado

Permabanned
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
3,794
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Not "just a theory", I think you are describing reality as it stands, and very usefully thank you!

When I was younger I knew my judgement was erratic - sometimes good, sometimes poor. But, without knowing anything about MBTI, I knew that my judgement was a slow-burn. I knew I had to very gradually accumulate perspectives on the world, and build up an understanding of everything, piece by piece, and that later on in life, it would all make sense.

Ne naturally wants to be as open-minded as possible, so that nothing is missed; the best solutions are always seen, somewhere; and you never want to accept something simply because someone else accepts it. You don't want to discount any single viewpoint, because that would hurt the person holding it without knowing for sure whether it is valid or not. You give extra weight to obscure ideas because you want to look at them properly, when no one else is. So in Ne perceiving mode, you are not judging - you are just taking things in. But after a while, you have too much information and worry that you might be led the wrong way, so you crave some time to make sense of it before going further.

For that reason, I believe ENFPs (and perhaps ENTPs) - especially when young - exist in a permanently quantum state, with 10 different ways of seeing every subject. I know that I learned to evaluate information on the basis of multiple viewpoints, and had ways of keeping all in mind, while gradually investigating them. I found ways to juggle them and switch from one to another, before I knew which ones were valid or realistic. So a young ENFP can be easily led into wild, silly ideas - not because they are silly, but because they want to see everything, before coming to their own judgement on it later. That might be musing randomly while doing some ordinary solitary activity, or daydreaming, or in your dreams at night.

One by one, over the years, my prophecy proved correct, in that the balls gradually fell into the right places, and I began to connect up everything that I had experienced, and make sense of everything. So throughout my 20s, 30s and 40s, in my private musings with Fi, I had a-ha! revelations about all sorts of things, as I connected up the dots and put them in perspective. (I've developed a habit of saying out loud, in a whisper or quiet voice, some conclusion that I'd suddenly reached, which I realise is eccentric - but serves its purpose!) It might be surprising to people who only know younger ENFPS and think them foolish, to learn that older ENFPs can be very wise, because of the slow-burn of Ne-Fi. I am glad I did nothing by the book (usually threw it away!), and refused to believe things just because other people did, and I am glad I had the patience to accumulate viewpoionts (Ne mode) before making judgements on them (Fi mode).

In between being an indoctrinated Jehovah's Witness child and Rationalistic Adult, I went through a phase all about magic, psychics, and poc chopra spirituality.
 

Bardsandwarriors

Xena's boyfriend
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
100
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
In between being an indoctrinated Jehovah's Witness child and Rationalistic Adult, I went through a phase all about magic, psychics, and poc chopra spirituality.

I'm still in that phase. I went to Hogwarts you know.
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
She is dean of students. Who is above her?

Then again, I'm stuck in a conservative area getting a useless degree I hate. I'm just trying to figure out a way to get a masters in something I like that will make good money so I can leave this backwards part of the world and buy the things that make life enjoyable. From my experience money may not DIRECTLY buy happiness, but it buys the things one needs to be happy.


Academic administrations are structured differently depending on the size of the school but I'll assume she reports directly to the President. The thing is though is while the Dean of Students is employed to put the students first/protect the students...the President is there to protect the school.

I would approach whomever heads up your school's disabled students/disability resources department for advice on how to proceed. Don't go in and say "I would like to file a formal complaint against the Dean of Students"... just go and tell them exactly what happened and that it greatly confuses and concerns you and you would like some input on how to address this situation going forward... And see what they say. If you do this and come back to me with it I will try to point you in the right direction as well.
 

Avocado

Permabanned
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
3,794
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Academic administrations are structured differently depending on the size of the school but I'll assume she reports directly to the President. The thing is though is while the Dean of Students is employed to put the students first/protect the students...the President is there to protect the school.

I would approach whomever heads up your school's disabled students/disability resources department for advice on how to proceed. Don't go in and say "I would like to file a formal complaint against the Dean of Students"... just go and tell them exactly what happened and that it greatly confuses and concerns you and you would like some input on how to address this situation going forward... And see what they say. If you do this and come back to me with it I will try to point you in the right direction as well.
I'm going to drop it because I don't care. I see no way this impacts me negatively beyond being a little innappropriate. To be honest, I care so little about it that the details of the incident are starting to fade away already. I overwrite old data which is of no use to me.

Something else is on my mind right now. I got the worst of both world starting with specialized degrees and ending with a general studies degree. I got the painful commitment to unwanted classes with the specialized degree and the worthlessness of a general studies degree. I'm too concerned with money to worry about petty insults. I have looked into doing the alt-cert for teaching, but given how harshly I was graded in my stint in the education program, I doubt I could last. I've also looked into the Air Force and Navy. I will technically meet the minimum requirements for an officer, but general studies is the least competitive degree out there, even less than my second major, sociology (which was probably the most interesting...but I changed to my third major, education, because sociology is not competive in the job market.). That said, I would probably start as an enlisted level 3 airman/sailor. At 22,500 a year salary, they would pay less than I would get if I could get full time at a private private pharmacy, but that is more than it would take to lose disabiliy and far more than I make now working only 6 hours a week. Granted, I'm always willing to work the 18-20 hours a week that I am allowed under disability, but I never get that many, so I live out of my mini cooper (which is a felony if you get caught, so I hide my car when I sleep). The disability office says my mental illnesses are 50% disabling, so I could just neglect to mention I had a disability if I enlisted, but I suspect people would catch on pretty quick that there is something wrong with me. Athother option, and this is because my sociology major and my education major had a lot of history classes, is to become a history professor. I've always been more of a science guy, but I can do history. I've always been relatively gifted at knowing things and spitting those things out at people. It would just be a job to me, but I could maybe have more success there than with pharmacy tech. At any rate, I suspect my measly $400 a month in assistance will soon be cut, too, so I'm kinda fucked. My mom might let me back with her, but I would rather not be stuck with violent face puncher.

edit: I almost forgot about the constant hiccups and joint pain. I have neither health nor wealth.
 

Avocado

Permabanned
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
3,794
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]
I am struggling to pass even the easiest of the fitness tests. I am now starting an aggressive workout routine to get really buff and powerful.
 
Top